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#241440 - 16/11/2004 03:13 "Go or No" Time for New Fascias
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Believe me when I say I truly wanted to be able to wait for this to be a sort of "Merry Christmas!" post, but some stuff on the boards of late has forced me to do it now. <sigh>

My partner in this and I are about 75% of the way to being ready to offer new aluminum fascias based on the NewFace design. As I said, we wanted to wait to announce this until we could just suprise everyone with product ready to ship. In fact only one person on the board knew at all what was up. After the recent posts regarding the aluminum stock design fascias, and the possibility of that same individual making NewFace style fascias as well, we had to go public. So here is, at least a sneak peek, so to speak. You'll notice one small difference from the NewFace, though....



Yep. You guessed it; factory buttons. Or should I say FireFox buttons? We felt that it wouldn't be right to put out a new product without considering other available (and working, FireFox ) items. Anyhow, this is a laser cut template we got for checking fit. In the photo it's just sitting in front of the factory fascia. The sharp corners will be more rounded on the final product (mostly from the milling process, but very much for aesthetic reasons as well).

We currently have sample plates of the following finishes from our plater:

Black Brushed
Black Bead-Blasted
Black DM (swirly)

Blue Brushed
Blue Bead-Blasted
Blue DM

Red Brushed
Red Bead-Blasted
Red DM

I don't have the plates here (my partner has them), but depending on what happens I can post pics later. All I can say is that as good as the black brushed looks, the blue brushed is AMAZING.

The fit on the rotary encoder is for the stock knob, to ensure compatability with FireFox's button kit.

So here's the deal...

We're in a fair amount of money to have gotten to where we are now with the fascias, which is fine. But this is a small community, a very limited market. I'm at a point where I have to make a decision, as the next step will require a hefty monetary commitment. If there are going to be multiple people doing the NewFace style designs, we won't persue our line. It just wouldn't be financially viable for me, and in all fairness, regardless of project status, I was not the first to announce plans to offer the product. So if others intend to continue with NewFace style fascias, we'll respectfully, and without emnity, bow out.

Hope nobody takes anything I've said wrong. I think it's great that there's so much interest in these projects lately. I don't have anything against healthy competition, I just can't afford to put out that much money and then end up selling four or five fascias.

If we continue, we should have proper milled (and plated) prototypes to send out to certain individuals for testing and review within 2-3 weeks. (Crosses fingers)

I'll keep an eye on this thread for a day or so to get a feel for opinions before deciding what to do. If anyone has any questions, post or PM me.

Thanks,
Dave


Attachments
240846-Fascia_On.jpg (1131 downloads)


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#241441 - 16/11/2004 18:44 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I'd likely take 2 or 3 of them depending on price.

I would ask that you make a couple of very small adjustments to the right side of the face. It's similar (very) to one of two designs I was going to lay out. Though I was thinking round buttons not stock.

I'll post a sample tonight of what I meant by "adjustment" above.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241442 - 16/11/2004 19:26 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
I'd like to see the different samples, but I am tentatively interested in two units.
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my empeg stuff

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#241443 - 16/11/2004 22:36 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Here's the image I mentioned. All areas mentioned below are boxed in red.

Basically I'd suggest making the top and bottom thinner - though not necessary for visibility, it makes the unit look more high-end and gives the illusion of a larger screen. You can see this on a lot of aftermarket units as well. Next, make the left side (between display and buttons) thicker so it matches the width of the far left. enlarge the space on the right toward the bottom so it doesn't look so heavy (not needed for sensors, just for looks). Widen the right side so it matches the left side.

I'm not sure what you should do about the top right - this was an area of debate for the original newface as well. I'll attach another image below which is a slight mod on the newface.



What thickness material are you planning to use? Definitely planning to radius all the corners, right? I do like the fact you're keeping stock button spaces - now to test replacement knobs of the same size (the stock one doesn't stick out enough for my taste).

Bruno


Attachments
240921-Fascia_On-mod.gif (1124 downloads)

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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241444 - 16/11/2004 22:39 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The newface change - basically the curve on the right top and width of the right side.



Attachments
240922-picBruFace-mod.gif (1229 downloads)

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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241445 - 16/11/2004 23:06 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: hybrid8]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Bruno, thanks for all the suggestions. We want to make the fascias that everyone would like, so the feedback is extremely helpful. I really like the ideas, and I'll be talking with my partner later tonight about incorporating them.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you should do about the top right - this was an area of debate for the original newface as well. I'll attach another image below which is a slight mod on the newface.


This has been an issue for us, as well. We don't really like the way the corner curves on the NewFace, but we also don't want a really hard corner. We'll figure something good out, though.

Quote:
What thickness material are you planning to use?


It currently looks like we're going to be using 5/16" stock, which is extremely close to the original fascia's thickness. The shop uses this size stock as a standard, which should help us keep unit cost reasonable.

Quote:
Definitely planning to radius all the corners, right?


Most definately. We don't believe that someone's car stereo should be that dangerous.

The milling process will result in a slight radius on all corners, so it wasn't necessary to build it into the CAD file. On the laser cut fitting template, though, the corners came out very sharp.

Quote:
I do like the fact you're keeping stock button spaces - now to test replacement knobs of the same size (the stock one doesn't stick out enough for my taste).


Thanks. As I said, we didn't feel it was right to put out a new fascia without making it compatible with FireFox's button effort.

I agree about the stock knob. But again, the goal was to be compatible with the button kits being worked on by FireFox. In the future (after the fascia project is in the bag), we've discussed a new custom knob that would be made of matching aluminum with illuminated features. But that's something for another day....
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Dave

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#241446 - 16/11/2004 23:53 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
mcomb
pooh-bah

Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Hey, very cool. I'd be interested in one or two new facias from somebody depending on cost and I like this design a little better than the stock look. Bruno's suggested changes to the newface design are definitely an ascetic improvement as well. Do you have plans to make matching handles?

-Mike


Edited by mcomb (16/11/2004 23:58)
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#241447 - 17/11/2004 00:14 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: mcomb]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Do you have plans to make matching handles?


Yes, we were planning to do handles at the same time as we released the fascias. We're still planning on doing it, but it may be a bit after the fascias are released.
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Dave

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#241448 - 17/11/2004 00:53 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Cool, cool, and more cool. Nice prototype. Now I'd better darn well get some buttons available to everyone.

Some questions though:
Black, blue, and red aluminum? I'd love to see pics. But are you doing any metalic, unpainted aluminum? Brushed, polished, and plain; like the old 303 faces?

I'm guessing these use the same lenses as the stock fascia. After seeing the fascia curves worn into the lenses, I wonder if there's a way to clean them or buff them so they look good with the webroach faces. Or maybe now would be a good time to get Filener lenses to match the pending buttons.

Good work. Man, things are getting exciting around here. I can't wait for more info because I may buy a fascia if for nothing else than the archives.
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#241449 - 17/11/2004 00:57 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: FireFox31]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
I can't wait for more info...


Glad you asked!!!

Here's a little something to give people a better idea of what we're working on.....

The front....



Attachments
240933-Fascia_Front.jpg (1221 downloads)

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Dave

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#241450 - 17/11/2004 00:59 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
And the rear...



Attachments
240934-Fascia-Rear.jpg (1228 downloads)

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Dave

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#241451 - 17/11/2004 01:10 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: FireFox31]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Cool, cool, and more cool. Nice prototype.


Thank you very very much.

Quote:
Now I'd better darn well get some buttons available to everyone.


Yes, you better!

Quote:
Some questions though:
Black, blue, and red aluminum? I'd love to see pics.


I just got off the phone with my partner. He's bringing me the sample plates tomorrow. I'll scan / photograph the plates and post images here tomorrow evening. I don't know how much luck I'll have getting good images, but I'll do what I can.

Quote:
But are you doing any metalic, unpainted aluminum? Brushed, polished, and plain; like the old 303 faces?


First, I want to make clear; these will be anodized, not painted. We may be clear-coating them in order to protect against UV damage. Brushed, plain, beadblasted, and DA aluminum, without anodizing, will be available. Polished is being looked at, and I'm pretty sure we'll be offering that as well. One thing I'm pushing for is to add polished in all colors.

Quote:
I'm guessing these use the same lenses as the stock fascia.


Yes. We didn't want to put something out that would require people to buy anything else. We were hoping, in the spirit of the whole "Merry Christmas" plan we had, to get a prototype to Filener to allow them to make raised panel lenses to fit the new fascia before we announced, but that's how things go...

Quote:
After seeing the fascia curves worn into the lenses, I wonder if there's a way to clean them or buff them so they look good with the webroach faces.


I've had good luck with regular plastic cleaning products. Doesn't get rid of the wear, but makes it much less noticable.

Quote:
Or maybe now would be a good time to get Filener lenses to match the pending buttons.


Even better idea.
_________________________
Dave

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#241452 - 17/11/2004 01:27 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: hybrid8]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
now to test replacement knobs of the same size (the stock one doesn't stick out enough for my taste).

But hm... isn't the photo of a prototype laid on top of a stock fascia? So, the knob would seem burried because the prototype is one fascia-depth further than it needs to be. If the prototype was screwed in place against the lens, I'm guessing the knob would appear the proper height.

And if that's the case, how do the buttons seem to be set at the proper depth? Or maybe the photo is just making it hard to tell. Hm.....
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#241453 - 17/11/2004 01:36 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: FireFox31]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
The photo just makes it hard to tell. And something to consider is that the unit in the picture is about 1/5 the thickness of the final fascia. As I said, it was produced to determine proper fit of the buttons, knob, etc.

I think Bruno was referring to the knob in general, but I could be wrong...
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Dave

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#241454 - 17/11/2004 02:32 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Yes, the knob in general...

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241455 - 17/11/2004 06:25 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: FireFox31]
Laserbeam
Quiet One

Registered: 25/09/2003
Posts: 0
Loc: Oregon, USA
Quote:
Or maybe now would be a good time to get Filener lenses to match the pending buttons.



I've already seen the new face and have a lens pattern ready to go. I'm waiting for feedback from someone who has a new fascia and player to tell me the lenses fit before releasing them to the public. Should I wait for this new face to be released and match them?
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#241456 - 17/11/2004 07:00 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: Laserbeam]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Quote:
Or maybe now would be a good time to get Filener lenses to match the pending buttons.


.....Should I wait for this new face to be released and match them?


Actually, I think FireFox was referring to matching color to the forthcoming translucent buttons.

As far as waiting or not waiting, that's really up to you. The new fascia we are working on will work with the standad lens, no modification necessary. However, if you would like to make raised panel lenses that would fit them, I would be happy to supply a template for you as soon as the design is absolutly finalized (which should be in the next day or so).
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Dave

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#241457 - 17/11/2004 08:02 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: hybrid8]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Bruno, based on your suggestions, I've made a few tentative changes.

Here is how the design currently looks (note that the corners would have a radius from the milling), and what I've come up with based on your comments.



I've gone about at curvy as I feel good about going on the top right corner. I feel that much more would put it out of sync with the rest of the unit.

I actually like the modifications, and I'm gonna run it past my partner tomorrow. I'd love to get thoughts from everyone....


Attachments
240960-Current&Modified.jpg (774 downloads)



Edited by webroach (17/11/2004 08:03)
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Dave

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#241458 - 17/11/2004 11:43 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3501
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Looks great...I'm definitely interested in one...possibly more depending on price. I really like the latest version that you did with Bruno's suggestions. Can't think of anything to add beyond what he did.
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~ John

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#241459 - 17/11/2004 13:48 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: JBjorgen]
caseyse
member

Registered: 07/10/2000
Posts: 112
Loc: CA, USA
I like the rounded fascia, and would get a couple for my empegs. Also, the more rounding of the perimeter edges, the better.

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#241460 - 17/11/2004 14:25 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I can't tell from the CAD diagrams, so I'll just ask. Is the back scooped out so that the edges of the fascia will touch the body of the empeg and allow the lens to sit in a "pocket" inside? I know I'm not stating that question well, but I hope you get what I'm trying to ask.
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#241461 - 17/11/2004 14:51 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Judging by one of the images posted above (and comments made), the back does have a recess to fit the lens.

Looks good to me. The only polish I'd make would be to get the top and bottom edges more similar in thickness - though this may just be something hardto judge from the image attached (don't know if some of the bottom part is shadow area).

The curves work well, including the top right.

I thought about trying to make a fascia specific to my car which would not have a recessed back. Because of the way the console is designed, a head unit can be made to fit in perfectly flush. most aftermarket head units aren't designed like this and leave awkward gaps around such consoles. The stock BMW head unit has a fascie that's just a simple rectangle around the outside. I may take my previously modified stock fascia and using more epoxy make some additional mods.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing these new models in person.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241462 - 17/11/2004 15:15 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: hybrid8]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
Quote:
get the top and bottom edges more similar in thickness


They look pretty close right now, though the top may be just a bit too thin.

Remember, the handle will also be present, making the bottom edge MUCH thicker than just the facia alone.

Cheers

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#241463 - 17/11/2004 16:40 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: mlord]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Ooops, you're right, I'd forgotten about the handle. If the handle is properly matched to the fascia, instead of a contrasting colour, then the top and bottom do need to be different thicknesses to account for the handle's thickness. I'd been spending too much time looking at silver fascias and black handles, where it looks much more balanced if the fascia's horizontals themselves are exactly the same.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241464 - 17/11/2004 19:27 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: JBjorgen]
mdavey
enthusiast

Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
Quote:
Can't think of anything to add beyond what he did.


Oh, you can always find something else to add...



[Design by Marcus "beaker" Wakefield] [edit: added Marcus' nickname and URL]


Edited by mdavey (17/11/2004 20:08)

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#241465 - 17/11/2004 19:52 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: mdavey]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
In truth, I can think of another change that might improve the design, but it would end up blocking the IrDA. I therefore don't think it's worth exploring if the fascia is supposed to be a functional replacement for the original.

The render posted was by Beaker, right? The form and function are at odd with each other almost as much as with the original fascia. Though a good job, the contours on the left is just too over the top and don't have a timeless feel to them. In fact the design already looks somewhat dated since first seeing it. It would also require completely custom buttons, which this new fascia does not.

Remember that there's still the possibility of custom knobs, so one (popular) aspect of Beaker's design will still be possible.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#241466 - 17/11/2004 20:02 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: hybrid8]
mdavey
enthusiast

Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
My post was meant to be very much tongue-in-cheek however there is one detail I would like to see:



I have to say, I really like the fact that the proposed facia will use the standard buttons and knobs. As you point out, possible future projects like metal buttons with illuminated insets would have an undivided market.


Attachments
241012-Untitled-TrueColor-01.jpg (633 downloads)

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Michael
Ex-owner of stolen empeg #030102741

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#241467 - 17/11/2004 20:03 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: webroach]
mcomb
pooh-bah

Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Quote:
I actually like the modifications, and I'm gonna run it past my partner tomorrow. I'd love to get thoughts from everyone....


Looks great, the only comment I'd have is that the upper left looks a bit bulky. I played with mirroring the cutout from the lower right, but I don't like the results (might look OK if that screw hole wasn't there). Maybe someone else has a better idea?



-Mike


Attachments
241013-240960-Current&Modified2.jpg (764 downloads)



Edited by mcomb (17/11/2004 20:06)
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#241468 - 17/11/2004 20:20 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: mcomb]
mdavey
enthusiast

Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
Quote:
Maybe someone else has a better idea?


Not sure about better, but to throw one mode idea into the pot - how about an IR "island"?



Attachments
241020-Untitled-TrueColor-03.jpg (644 downloads)

_________________________
Michael
Ex-owner of stolen empeg #030102741

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#241469 - 17/11/2004 21:11 Re: "Go or No" Time for New Fascias [Re: wfaulk]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
I can't tell from the CAD diagrams, so I'll just ask. Is the back scooped out so that the edges of the fascia will touch the body of the empeg and allow the lens to sit in a "pocket" inside? I know I'm not stating that question well, but I hope you get what I'm trying to ask.


Not a problem, Bitt. Just to verify what Bruno said; yes, the back is properly "depressed" in order to allow the lens to sit as it should. We also have the notch to allow the unbent sleds to fit correctly.
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Dave

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