#245497 - 05/01/2005 19:11
Anything good at CES?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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I'll be at CES this Friday or Saturday and I was wondering if anyone had any can't miss booths that I should checkout? I went last year and there was so much stuff that I felt like I missed the few products I might have been interested in seeing amidst the sea of slick booths and plasma TVs. Are we expecting anything new and exciting from the DNNA/Rio crew for example?
-Mike
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#245498 - 05/01/2005 19:28
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Are we expecting anything new and exciting from the DNNA/Rio crew for example?
As usual, Rio don't have a booth at CES; our marketing folk seem to prefer working behind the scenes with important resellers. However, this year plenty of Rio Cambridge are going to be wandering round the show as delegates (not me though), so it might be worth keeping an eye on other people's name-badges.
If I were going to CES this year I'd be looking at Linux-based media players. Specifically I'd be asking which were just using Linux as an irreplaceable (signed) firmware, and which were actual open systems in the manner of a Linksys or an Empeg.
Peter
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#245499 - 05/01/2005 19:46
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I believe Rio do have some show floor presence in the form of a "partner alcove" on the Microsoft booth. Woo!
My employer will have a show presence at booth 12848 where our more consumer oriented Ion, Numark and Akai Pro products will be shown. I dropped out of the show, however, as I figure there are more cost effective dates to drink cocktails and play poker in Vegas.
I'm much more interested in MacWorld Expo this year - anyone going?
Rob
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#245500 - 05/01/2005 20:46
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Quote:
I dropped out of the show, however, as I figure there are more cost effective dates to drink cocktails and play poker in Vegas.
I'll take any excuse 
Quote:
I'm much more interested in MacWorld Expo this year - anyone going?
Actually I'll probably checkout MacWorld as well since I live in the bay area. Although it seems that a lot of Apple's normal surprises have already leaked to the internet.
-Mike
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#245501 - 05/01/2005 22:07
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Although it seems that a lot of Apple's normal surprises have already leaked to the internet.
Apple leaks are notoriously unreliable.. we shall see!
Rob
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#245502 - 05/01/2005 22:14
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: peter]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Well, which one of those alternatives is this?
_________________________
-- DLF
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#245503 - 05/01/2005 23:55
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
open.neurosaudio.com
Due to a potential licensing conflict with one of our vendors,we have temporarily suspended downloads of the Neuros firmware source code.
We expect to have this resolved shortly, please check back on open.neurosaudio.com for further updates.: <
For additional information please visit the Neuros Audio web site at www.neurosaudio.com
Hehe, how relevant!
Rob
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#245504 - 06/01/2005 11:56
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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I hear this was too good to pass up. I'm sure someone in Redmond is going to get the axe when Gates gets home. 
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#245505 - 07/01/2005 01:48
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Is the large area Rio have at the Hilton private only? I saw the little kiosk at the MS booth today. Two carbons. Wow. It was completely missable with all the other zillion players around. Funny but both Denon and Marantz had pretty large booths. My recommendation would (seriously) be to start to phase out the Rio brand and start a brand new brand. The time for the Rio name has come and gone in many people's eyes. Maybe keep Rio for flash-based players.
Bruno
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#245506 - 07/01/2005 01:52
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Hehe, how relevant!
Five will get you 20 Rob put them up to this!
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#245507 - 07/01/2005 12:15
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
The time for the Rio name has come and gone in many people's eyes. Maybe keep Rio for flash-based players.
How about the iRio? Anything with an "i" in front of it sells like hotcakes. At the same time, you'd probably have a lawsuit on your hands.
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#245508 - 08/01/2005 04:46
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Well, Rio did show some amazing new things somewhere. Amazing in this case sadly meaning that once again Rio marketing people have no clue. Changing naming schemes once a year is a bad idea, especially back to a model number driven system. How is a Rio ce2100 better then a Carbon? It's newer, so it should be better, right? Wait, it has half the storage? Well, now I'm confused. Also, ce2100? What does that even mean? What was so horribly wrong with just "Rio Carbon 2.5 gig". People seem to understand iPod 20 gig and iPod 40 gig well, instead of Apple iPod and Apple pe4625. *sigh*
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#245509 - 08/01/2005 12:50
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Well, now I'm confused. Also, ce2100? What does that even mean? What was so horribly wrong with just "Rio Carbon 2.5 gig". People seem to understand iPod 20 gig and iPod 40 gig well, instead of Apple iPod and Apple pe4625.
I imagine it'll be a store positioning thing. Most stores now have MP3 products in multiple locations, usually with big name brands in one place and cheap as chips stuff somewhere else. I guess Rio want to get into the cheap as chips section with their cut down 2.5GB player and the pointless name will fit in with the rest of the junk there.
It's a shame Rio had absolutely nothing new to show at CES (just SKU adjustments), not even the long promised Janus support. I guess this means we're unlikely to see anything big from them before mid to late summer, when the stores reset for the holiday period.
Next week we'll find out what Apple's reply is going to be.
Rob
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#245510 - 09/01/2005 04:39
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Apple's "untouchable" position is made so much easier for them by the blundering moves made by evvery other company who even has half a brand to push.
There were dozens of MP3 players at CES that could pass for a Rio in the eyes of most consumers. All by companies you've never heard of. And will never hear of likely.
Even browsing Microsoft's "Plays" area was just "ho-hum" - really, no one cares about Windows Media Audio right now and that's not likely to change for a long time unless someone comes out with compelling hardware backed by some serious brand awareness. That's not going to happen from any of the two-bit companies and it's no help to Rio's future to move further into that mire.
Apple commands this market. Darth-Vader style. I don't think they're quite the force ebay is in online auctions, but everyone else just seems to be handing them the future of this space.
Bruno
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#245511 - 09/01/2005 04:47
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Apple's "untouchable" position
Not untouchable in every way. I still say that anyone who buys the iPod Photo made a bad move. With something like the GMini 400 out there, that costs half as much and plays videos, I'm amazed that the iPod Photo exits.
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Matt
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#245512 - 10/01/2005 16:19
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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A coworker just got back from CES and reported seeing a demo by these guys doing gigabit ethernet over barbed wire.
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#245513 - 10/01/2005 16:59
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Apparently the best thing at CES was a virtual surround sound speaker. Must have been one slow year.
_________________________
Matt
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#245514 - 10/01/2005 19:55
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Are we expecting anything new and exciting from the DNNA/Rio crew for example?
As usual, Rio don't have a booth at CES; our marketing folk seem to prefer working behind the scenes with important resellers. However, this year plenty of Rio Cambridge are going to be wandering round the show as delegates (not me though), so it might be worth keeping an eye on other people's name-badges.
If I were going to CES this year I'd be looking at Linux-based media players. Specifically I'd be asking which were just using Linux as an irreplaceable (signed) firmware, and which were actual open systems in the manner of a Linksys or an Empeg.
To be fair, though iRiver have a "booth", this was at the back of the south hall and was essentially a closed suite - unless you had an appointment, you couldn't get past the receptionist.
Big showy booths are good for smaller retailers - eg, specialist hifi - and as such Denon & Marantz had these. For companies which sell mostly to big companies (Best Buy, Circuit City), suites or meeting rooms are more useful and efficient - hence Rio and iRiver being non-public displays. I'd like more of a show floor prescence too, but I can see why we (and others) don't have it.
In fact, the people with booths tend to fall into these categories:
- huge company wanting to brag (Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, LG, etc)
- company with many small resellers (high-end audio)
- company in need of representation (eg, Chinese companies looking for resellers)
As for PMPs, any media player that claims to do WMA9 (and most of the linux ones are running code from Implicit) will be closed to one extent or another. I did catch the FIC one on AMDs booth (Alchemy 1200 CPU) but that was Implicit too. Everyone seems to be supporting WMA video, there were some very impressive HDTV resolution non-portable media players on show.
Hugo
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#245515 - 10/01/2005 20:05
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
There were dozens of MP3 players at CES that could pass for a Rio in the eyes of most consumers. All by companies you've never heard of. And will never hear of likely.
This is the issue - the quality of the software isn't apparent from looking at the box. Without exception (including the iRiver H10, for example), all the other portable players I tried were awful to use - unintuitive, unresponsive, etc etc.
Problem is, everyone advertises their stuff as being "easy to use". The truth only tends to come out in user reviews or good in-depth review sites.
Hugo
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#245516 - 11/01/2005 19:12
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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I'd say the same is true with HDD-based in-car units, like these combo GPS Navigation & MP3/AVI-playing ones just being introduced at CES, but running the dreaded (grimace) WinCE.Net (4.2) OS: Quote:
blah blah blah
This is the issue - the quality of the software isn't apparent from looking at the box. Without exception (including the iRiver H10, for example), all the other portable players I tried were awful to use - unintuitive, unresponsive, etc etc.
Problem is, everyone advertises their stuff as being "easy to use". The truth only tends to come out in user reviews or good in-depth review sites.
Hugo
_________________________
-- DLF
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#245517 - 12/01/2005 16:26
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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As of Tuesday none of the flash-based MP3 players matter much anymore anyway. Apple has now entered this segment and no doubt will capture a comanding percentage of the market-share. And Apple has both the physical and software sexiness going for it - if not the geek appeal and more essoteric (but useful) features found in some other players.
So anything you can give away about Rio and CES? I still think Rio can have a wildly successful product - but I think some redefinition will have to come in play. Like you said, no one knows how useful the software is. And you can't market a product by listing a million things it does well. you have to jump on just a couple of features and push them hard to individual markets. Apple had the huge benefit of pushing on a simple feature set to a very expansive market segment.
Bruno
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#245518 - 12/01/2005 17:10
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Sorry, but I simply don't see the appeal. I mean come on, $99 for something with no display? I suppose the concept also goes against the entire way I listen to music, which is whole albums at a time. I never shuffle, never use random, so navigation on this thing would just annoy the hell out of me.
I still maintain that anyone who bought the iPod Photo should have their head examined*.
*appologies to anyone here who bought an iPod Photo. I'm sorry that you're crazy.
_________________________
Matt
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#245519 - 12/01/2005 17:18
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Listening to whole albums at a time with no shuffling.. no display required.
??
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#245520 - 12/01/2005 20:07
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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How do I know where the album I want is located? How do I know the track title of an album I just purchased?
Just look at the entire pitch Apple is making with the thing. It's all shuffle and random. Shuffle, and soup were not made for me. So no Apple MP3 players will darken my doorstep.
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Matt
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#245521 - 13/01/2005 00:19
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I'm sure Steve-o will have sleepless nights knowing he doesn't quite have 100% of the marketshare. He'll have to come to accept the 90-99% stake they'll no doubt take. I just want one to use as a USB key. Navigating some of the Rio flash players is just as bad as not having a screen (ever use a Cali?) Generally i like knowing what's playing though, even if the navigation sucks (again, see Cali). At least this player doesn't have the useless (functionless and impractical) form-factor as the Cali. I'm not a fan of the sharp edges on the iPod Shuffle though. Wearing it around your neck also makes a statement: "I'm a bloody moron" Bruno
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#245522 - 13/01/2005 01:35
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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It is odd for them to come out with this. People "may" start to rethink their decisions to toss their flashbased players when they see that even iPod has entered the market. I mean "there must be something to flash based players if Apple is getting into it." Then, they might, just might start to realize that there many more choices out there once they see how even $40 64MB players have a display on them.
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Brad B.
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#245523 - 13/01/2005 01:54
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I still think flash based players are attractive. I wouldn't mind having one myself as an nice tiny, light player to sling around.
So yeah, Steve, you won't be getting any of my money! Please, don't cry. Just wipe that tear with a $1K bill.
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Matt
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#245524 - 13/01/2005 02:06
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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It wasn't tears that I was thinking of wiping with this thing. Why has nobody made the obvious suppository reference yet?
_________________________
-- DLF
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#245525 - 13/01/2005 05:43
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Ouch! With those edges?
_________________________
Matt
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#245526 - 16/01/2005 19:38
Re: Anything good at CES?
[Re: DLF]
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enthusiast
Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
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Actually, I've heard from a few sources the original name was going to be the "tamPod"...
...but seriously folks, I am curious. Does anyone know what the ratio of iPod sales are from Apple.com vs. Apple Store vs. Brick'n'Mortar? I can't imagine these selling to anyone with half a brain if they can see the wall of flash players with displays at Fry's electronics... CompUSA... etc.
This is why I am so impressed with the concept of the Apple Store. When given a choice, the average consumer seems to go with "whatever is on sale that meets my needs (and color choice)." At the Apple store the only comparison is iPod, iPod mini or iPod shuffle... Brilliant.
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."
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