Hi,

I've just ordered my first empeg and I'm trying to figure out what I should buy in terms of amplifier, etc.

I don't know where to start! I've never upgraded my car audio beyond a MD unit and some 'decent' speakers, but I figure if I'm spending this much on the empeg I may as well go the whole way and have it sound amazing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My car is an MGB Roadster, so I've got the convertible aspect to consider - ie: wind noise at speed. The hood (top) is very thick and insulated, so when that's up there is not much inteference. However, the car has a monster V8 engine in it, so it's loud to drive! I don't want that beautiful engine sound driowned out by booming bass, but I would like to hear my music properly over the car sounds.

There is adequate boot (trunk) space, and actually quite a bit of space behind the seats which could easily be used.

My budget is not _that_ huge, but I would be happy spending to get a good sound. I don't want to cut corners just to save a few quid/bucks.

Music-wise, this should be tailored towards what I listen to, which is mostly '60's pop stuff, Motown, etc. The odd burst of noise (nothing more violent than Nirvana though). I like the bass to be heard, but it should be tight, not boomy.

Ok - hope someone can help a girl in need!

Thanks!

Sally

Congratulations on your new Empeg!

Since you've already installed a minidisc player and some speakers, you've got a little bit of experience with car installs already. But if those installations didn't involve an amplifier, then there's a whole other level of difficulty involved. You have to find a suitable location for the amp, then be willing to dismantle parts of your car's interior to run the wires to it.

If you're comfortable with doing that yourself, then definitely call Crutchfield and get an amp and speakers from them. Their phone reps are very knowledgeable and will make sure to send you all the stuff you need to install an amplifier.

(Um, now that I re-read your post, I'm not sure if you're in the US or not, so Crutchfield may or may not be an option).

If you're not comfortable with installing your own amp, then it's time to go to a stereo shop that can sell you the amp as well as install it for you.

___________
Tony Fabris

Hi Tony,

I'm in the UK, so no Crutchfield I'm afraid.

The car is currently totally stripped out, waiting for it's new interior to be fitted, so the prospect of laying wires and drilling holes is no problem - that's actually why I want to get this sorted out ASAP, before the new carpet goes down.

I'm not going to be installing anything myself... but I'd rather buy the stuff and have my MG specialst install everything. I know he'd do it neatly, but I would need to tell him exactly what goes where. My experiences of specialist car audio places is that they are

a) patronising to young women and
b) have no idea about installing into an older car.

I took my 'B in to buy the MiniDisc unit and they actually seemed surprised that the console had a place for a stereo! The car is only from '74 - they _had_ invented the radio by then! I ended up buying it from Halfords (generic UK car supply centre).

Do you know (roughly) what I'll need? I know I have to get an amp, but what size, and do I need a sub woofer too? Should I bother with tweeters? Question questions...

Thanks!

Sally

The car is currently totally stripped out, waiting for it's new interior to be fitted, so the prospect of laying wires and drilling holes is no problem - that's actually why I want to get this sorted out ASAP, before the new carpet goes down.

Cool, then it should be fairly easy.

Do you know (roughly) what I'll need?

It depends on how many speaker locations you've got, and what their sizes are. And if you're willing to cut holes for new/more speakers. I've seen some neat installations where they cut extra holes in the door panels to add speakers under upholstery, for example.

You also need to decide if you have space for a subwoofer. If you can swing it in that tiny car, a subwoofer will give you the greatest sound quality improvement for your buck (or fiver or whatever you Brits call Bucks over there).

When building a stereo system, I always like to say "start with the speakers and work backwards from there." In terms of sound quality, the speakers are the most critical component, and the amplifier is the second most critical component. The third most critical component is the wiring between the amp and the head unit. So spend most of your money on speakers.

So, all in all, what you're going to need are:

- Speakers to fit the desired locations.

- If you get a subwoofer, you will need an enclosure for it. I recommend getting the enclosure and the subwoofer speaker as a matched set, making sure the speaker and the enclosure volume are correct for each other.

- An amplifier with the correct number of outputs for the speakers and subwoofer you just got. Make sure that the amp RMS wattage ratings fall within the recommended RMS wattage range of the speakers. (Note that most speakers and amps report "peak" power in huge print but RMS power in fine print. The peak power is meaningless, only look at the RMS power.) Make sure the amplifier has an adjustable gain control, and preferably some built-in crossover functions. I am now running two Jensen amps with these features and I am happy with them.

- Two sets of RCA cables to connect the Empeg to the amplifier. Get shielded cables that are designed to reject RF noise interference, and make sure to route these cables on the opposite side of the car from any power wires. And buy them a bit longer than you think you'll need them, there's nothing more frustrating than having your RCA cables come up short in a wiring run.

- Heavy-gauge power wire to connect the amplifier directly to the battery. This will also require a waterproof fuse block and a connector to get it hooked up to the battery terminal.

- Heavy-gauge ground wire for the amp and a good solid connection point for the ground. (Sorry, "Earth".)

- A light-gauge wire to connect to the Amp Remote activation lead. (When the empeg turns on, it lights up this wire telling the amp to turn on.)

- Speaker wire. The more wattage you run to a given speaker, the heavier the wire needs to be.


Should I bother with tweeters?

That depends on your current speaker locations. If they are fairly high up (such as in the dash or high in the doors), then your stereo imaging will be good as-is if you get decent speakers with separate tweeters.

If your only speakers are behind you, or down low in the doors, then you might want to consider putting some tweeters up high, yes.

One final note:

Since you've got the carpet stripped out, you might want to consider applying some Dynamat to the exposed areas to reduce the car's body resonance. Dynamat is just a thick clay-like rubbery material that absorbs sound. It comes in big sticky-backed sheets to apply to flat metal surfaces. Most new cars are already very well soundproofed and Dynamat is a waste of time for them. But your old MG probably has no soundproofing at all and would benefit from Dynamat. Your doors, too, are a good candidate for Dynamat, especially if the speakers are mounted there.

___________
Tony Fabris

Thanks Tony! :)

I'll post again when I've got some amps etc. short-listed. I really appreciate your help!

Sally

You're welcome.

And by the way, we don't get too many ladies here on the BBS, so don't let all the "guy gadget talk" scare you off.

___________
Tony Fabris

You also need to decide if you have space for a subwoofer. If you can swing it in that tiny car, a subwoofer will give you the greatest sound quality ...

I would definitely recommend a sub-woofer for the car, without a doubt - I was blown away with the difference. Don't let the 'boy-racer-at-southend' image put you off.

Mine is a very minimal self-amplified sub from pioneer, it's about the size of a 3rd place marrow (if you see what I mean).

improvement for your buck (or fiver or whatever you Brits call Bucks over there).

Quid(s)!

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Mine is a very minimal self-amplified sub from pioneer, it's about the size of a 3rd place marrow (if you see what I mean).

Errr, no, I don't actually....

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

My car is an MGB Roadster...However, the car has a monster V8 engine in it

Never mind the damn stereo -- tell us about the car!

An MGB with a V-8 is pretty special. Are you running that 3.5 liter Aluminum Buick V-8 that Rover used for years? Or some other V-8?

Is the engine tweaked at all?

Are you using the MG transmission and differential, or are they upgraded as well?

What have you done about supension, wheels, and brakes to handle the extra power and weight?

Is the car as fun to drive as it sounds like it would be?

Is it a "stealth" installation, that is, does it look like a perfectly harmless, quarter-century-old MG from the outside?

tanstaafl.

ps: I slightly disagree with Tony's priorities listed below in a later post: Make the subwoofer a very high priority. In terms of sound quality, it is an absolute must-have. Don't think that subwoofers are only for people who like to make boom-boom-boom noises and annoy the neighbors two blocks away. Your standard speakers simply will not reproduce the lower frequency ranges in most music. My recommendation is a single 10" subwoofer. I like the 10's because they are not as boomy, as dark sounding as a 12" or larger, and they are more responsive in the upper registers giving you a very warm mid-range sound.

pps: I highly recommend Cambridge Car Audio to do your installation or offer advice. Dominic in particular has been a mainstay of this bbs, although we have not heard much from him lately, but there are a lot of posts on this bbs from people who have been highly satisfied with their work and their creativity.

ppps: Not to sound sexist or anything... but you might look up posts on the bbs by laura -- she's a drag racer who lives in California. Haven't heard much from her lately, either. Laura -- don't you love us any more?

t





"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

The car started out as a stock factory 1974 V8 MGB GT, loaded with the 3.5 Rover V8. In 1996 it was transferred into a new heritage Roadster shell. So all the transmission, suspension, etc. is just stock, as it was in the V8 GT. This is a much easier way of building a V8 Roadster than starting with a regular Roadster and cramming a V8 engine in! Of course, when it was rebuilt on the new shell, everything was renewed so it's basically a 4 year old car now.

Fortunately, the bloke who paid thousands to have this project done only completed a few thousand miles in the car before selling it to me. Lucky girl!

And yes, it _is_ as great to drive as you'd imagine! I've taken it on a few track days (Silverstone, Goodwood, Brands Hatch) and it really flies.

The wheels are shod with minilite alloys rather than the factory V8 wheels, which gives it a more modern look, but apart from that it loooks like a regular MGB. I've kept the bodywork free of V8 badging so that I can surprise people! I race grown men away from traffic lights and see the look on their faces when this 'little old car' does a 6-sec 0-60. ;)

Thanks for the advice on the sub. I will take it! I'm sure I can cram one in there somewhere! I reckon I'll also take a ride up to Cambridge Car Audio to test some stuff out.

Incidentally, has anyone actually collected their Empeg unit from Empeg in Cambridge? I hae waiting in all day for deliveries...

Yeah, I was in a bizarre mood last night - apologies.

I'd write it in croatian, but I can't.

Imagine a marrow (the vegetable). Imagine a marrow-growing competition. Imagine the winner.

The sub isn't that big.

Imagine the 3rd place marrow - the sub is about *that* big.

I could measure it, but that would be much less interesting.

Hope that clears that one up.

Cheers,

Paul

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Sounds like the ride to cambs car would be a pleasure! - awesome motor!

Some people have popped in to empeg to collect - I'm sure they wouldn't mind at all - you'll probably manage to get a tour out of them too!

If you are going to Cambs Car - talk to Dominic (he sometimes frequents the board, but not so much recently) - he's been involved with empeg for a long while now, and although he doesn't do the installs any more - he's definitely knowledgable about the empeg, etc.

They've now done 3 near-perfect installs for me, and although pricy they do an excellent job.

Anyway, enjoy the empeg!

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

i think i am more confused now :)

12 gig, green...

I spoke to Cambridge Car Audio today - Dominic wasn't in but I spoke to someone else.

I'm afraid I pretty much had the same experience as I've had at every other audio 'specialist' - they don't know anything about cars more than 10 years old and are convinced that because my car's interior is not moulded out of one giant piece of grey plastic there is nowhere to fit speakers, and I have no right to a decent sounding car stereo anyway because I'm driving a classic car.

This car is my daily driver, not some polished gem wheeled out on Sunday afternoons. It just happens to have a '74 registration.

Anyway, I had already explained to them that the car was totally stripped out so new speakers could be fitted anywhere I decided, but I was instantly told that there would not be room for speakers larger than 4" in the doors, and no room at all for rear speakers. I _have_ rear speakers right now! (well, did until they were stripped out). There's room for a 6" speaker back there. MGB's have just as much (maybe more) space inside than Mazda MX5's, but I bet they wouldn't talk to an MX5 owner as though they were insane!

I'm sick of being told nonsense facts about my own car, and not listened to when I explain what I've got and what I want. I don't know what it is - sexism? I guess they just don't want my money... :(

Somebody get a hold of Dominic and get him in touch with her. This isn't right.

___________
Tony Fabris

Awww... thanks Tony! Didn't mean to be a moaner.

That's not moaning. That's simply asking for customer service from a business that should (if they want to STAY in business) be customer-service-oriented.

Dominic lists his e-mail address as [email protected], so you could try that method for contacting him. I dunno if that's just a main storefront address, though.

Most importantly, someone needs to direct him to this thread so he can understand what you're asking for.

If I understand the situation correctly, you're asking to assemble components for a custom-installed system, not looking for a factory-drop-in-replacement speaker set. The folks you spoke to at CambsCar seemed to think you wanted the latter, and that's why they balked at your make/model of car.

If you could do measurements of your speaker locations (including available mounting depths) and come to Dominic with that instead of the make/model of car, then you might get results.

___________
Tony Fabris

No need for appologies, of course. I guessed the local country fair competition part, but didn't know what on earth marrow might be (bone marrow obviously not). I went to epicurious to consult their dictionary (it says it's a particularly bland and large kind of squash grown only in England), and ended up wasting an hour reading recipies!

(There is a local joke about a peasant trying to describe pineaple to another one:
- You know what plum looks like?
- Yes....
- And grapes?
- Of course!
- Well, this is not even slightly similar to them! )

Cheers!

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

You're not missing much I can tell you. (Not having experienced a Marrow that is!! ).

beaker
12 gig blue

I'm amazed that they weren't forthcoming - do you know who it was that you spoke to?

I'll send you a private message on the board with his direct phone number (at least the last one that I have), which might give you better joy.

I'm amazed that they didn't feel that they could help.

I'm sick of being told nonsense facts about my own car, and not listened to when I explain what I've got and what I want.
Absolutely, I've had the same problem, many, many times (although not about the sex thing - obviously) and generally I never go back to the place.

However, I know that CambsCar *are* good, and I suspect that they've been poorly represented in this case (by a lazy sales person - not you).

I've not bought cars over stupid sales people (BMW are the *worst* - in my experience - for judging wether they think you've got enough money, and Audi are also terrible).

Give Dominic a ring - explain the situation and I'm sure that they will help.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I've always managed to get hold of him exclusively via the [email protected] email address, so that should work - As I said elsewhere I'll drop his direct number to sally in a seperate email (try to keep it off the boards).

That should help!

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Certainly true!

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Glad to hear that there is *something* unique to England then!

Any of the receipies any good? Are you tempted - perhaps I should set up a 'Marrow Export' company, for all of the poor Europeans who are denied Marrows.

Marrows look a lot like bloated cucumbers!

Anyway, glad we cleared that one up.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Ah I just realised something. Baby Marrows are known as Courgettes (no - not Corvettes - Courgettes ) over hear in England and known as Zucchini (is that spelled correctly?) in the USA I believe. So if our overseas friends really want to visualise one just think of a very big Zucchini.

Why on earth are we discussing Marrows?

This bbs really does go off on some tangents. Ahh, speaking of tangents...

beaker
12 gig blue

Good point - I'd forgotten about the mini variety.

Much less character, if you ask me.

As for why we're discussing marrows - I've little idea, and it was me who brought it up!

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I found everywhere i called up or went to (about 5 places) that were meant to be "pros" just said "what, you mean you want an external 4 channel amp, but factory installed speakers?" "yes, my speakers are kenwoods, and are fine thanks, i dont want the amp for power, my head unit is a specialist one which requires an external amp" "Eh? you dont want new speakers" etc. Patronising. Sure, i dont know much about car audio, but i know enough :) Eventualy went to my local place in Fleet (doubt any of you know it :), i said i wanted no new speakers etc, he understood instantly, was all good with it. They spent about 5 hours installing stuff (including screwing the empeg sled to the car body to stop me pulling it out every time i take th empeg out :) ), was all good. they were certainly impressed by the empeg. I think they installed all the conections right (considering its a VW Golf with the dodgy ignition wiring), but it all works, so im happy. Theres a loose wire somewhere, but it takes a bit of waggling of the empeg to sort it. Anyway, im well pleased with my local blokes who did my install, only cost me £60 installation i think. But then i was buying an amp too.

Anyway, anyone want to lend me £10k for an AC Cobra ive seen? :)

Hi All,

As a few people will know, my role's now changed at CCA, and I'm more involved with online sales than the installation side of things. As a result, I'm not getting anywhere near as much time to read BBS posts as I used to. Today's my day off though, and I just happened to catch the end of this thread in a daily archive mailing. To say I'm slightly annoyed is a bit of an understatement. Sally actually mailed me directly around Wednesday of last week, and I hadn't had the chance to reply before she called me, from what I can remember, Friday afternoon. A lot of the equipment she wanted to audition is either stuff we don't sell, or product we're just not geared up to demonstrate so, in the end, the best suggestion I could make was that she give Prestige a call, as I was fairly certain they were in a better position to assist than we were in this particular case. Judging by the mail Sally sent me later, it seems that this was indeed the case.

As I mentioned to Sally, I think it's important to be honest sometimes, and I'm quite happy to point someone in the direction of a company I know to have professional standards if I think they're in a better position to assist than we are, for whatever reason. At the end of the day, you can't possibly hope to get a sale from every single lead. I'm particularly annoyed though that in this case, the member of staff Sally spoke to didn't just do this, rather than giving bad, patronising or inaccurate information. I've actually just mailed Sally's post to our general manager - as a result, we'll be discussing the matter with the member of sales staff later this week, to ensure the same thing doesn't happen again in future. If anyone here does ever need assistance in future, if they do call us to find they get a similar response, then please, by all means ask to speak to me personally. If I'm not around at the time, then ask whoever you speak to to pass the message on, and I'll be more than happy to return the call.

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk

We've had nothing but good experiences with CCA. I had a chat with one of the guys about a potential install into a Jaguar XJS (an old one) and I'm more than confident to hand it over to them (when I eventually find one!). They've done a lot of custom work.

Rob

With a loud vehicle I've found that a volume level that is loud when parked and the motor turned off isn't hardly hearable at 70mph with the windows down, so you are right to get a big amp and a nice sub.

How about posting some pictures of this project???

Alan