#246279 - 13/01/2005 13:09
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
My only other big motivation for more memory, is running VMWare.
Yeah, I can't comment on OSX (or VMWare), but I run MS Virtual Server on my box here, and I'm using something like 1.8Gb of RAM (admittedly, that is 4 W2K3 virtual servers).
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-- roger
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#246280 - 13/01/2005 13:32
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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A 1GB DIMM for the mini from Crucial is £130 - half the price of Apple.
Rob
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#246281 - 13/01/2005 13:40
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
A 1GB DIMM for the mini from Crucial is £130 - half the price of Apple.
But it doesn't sound like minis are easy to take to pieces. Again I think I'll wait for Hugo's to turn up and then the about fifteen seconds he'll be able to resist taking his to pieces, to see how easy it is...
Peter
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#246282 - 13/01/2005 13:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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By the way, it's actually kind of hard to get a good read for memory usage is OS X, because it will almost always allocate all your RAM (except for a 3 or 4 meg safety net) with various file caches etc. However, at the moment, I've:
1) got Mail app open
2) got Safari open (doing this)
3) stripping DRM off iTunes music and converting to MP3's w/ JHymn
4) got a Terminal open running top
5) running Stickies
6) running Eclipse (pretty massive Java IDE)
7) always running QuickSilver (baddest-ass mac app ever, by the way)
8) running FrontBase (database)
9) running Apache, and all other misc services
My memory stats are:
PhysMem: 108M wired, 403M active, 448M inactive, 959M used, 64.3M free
So that's 108M wired, which means it can't be moved in memory, 403M active which means it's been touched relatively recently, and 448M inactive, which means it's just chilling and is a good swap candidate. So what you REALLY care about is wired + active. Used = wired + active + inactive, but inactive is really misleading since it's almost always going to roughly equal total - (wired + active).
So basically I have a pretty heavy load going right now and I'm right about at the 512M mark, so I would think 512M should be sufficient. 768M is probably a little bit better sweet spot for a REALLY used dev box, but they don't offer that config. So yeah, I would go 512.
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#246283 - 13/01/2005 14:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
then the about fifteen seconds he'll be able to resist taking his to pieces
LOL. The first empeg I ever saw was a mark 2 (no a) that I believe was opened up and the guts exposed before it was ever plugged in by the excited new owner. The whole office who'd been ridiculing him for spending > $1K on an mp3 player (myself included) was looking on as he studied every component, nodded, and smiled. Then he put it all back together and plugged it in. Needless to say we had to eat our words.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#246284 - 13/01/2005 14:37
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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On Solaris, a good metric for if you need more memory is the "sr" field in vmstat. This says how hard the kernel is looking for pages to swap out. If it's consistently high, that means that the kernel is under constant pressure to swap and is having a hard time finding appropriate pages.
Maybe there's something similar in MacOSX?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#246285 - 13/01/2005 14:46
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
Maybe there's something similar in MacOSX?
"vm_stat" on OS X, but I need to read up on how to interpret the values ... I suspect they're also "since the machine restarted" which is a really long time in my case (it usually just goes to sleep), so these might not be fair numbers (i'm sure i've done some mean things to this machine in the past week or so).
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#246286 - 13/01/2005 15:04
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Try giving it a number as an argument. It should then loop every that many seconds, reporting stats for only that time period. And ignore the first line because you're probably right about the "since the computer started" thing, and that first line will always be that.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#246287 - 13/01/2005 15:38
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
but doing it yourself does not void the warranty unless you damage something
So I ran that blog quote by our Apple Enterprise Rep and he asked about warranty to the people actually responsible and there is some bad news:
"I don't know if we have an answer to is it easy or hard, I assume it's hard, but the service manuals don't seem to be posted yet. But it will void their warranty.
Ed"
So much for trusting random blog entries and/or booth people.
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#246288 - 13/01/2005 15:57
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
"I don't know if we have an answer to is it easy or hard, I assume it's hard, but the service manuals don't seem to be posted yet. But it will void their warranty."
A bit odd considering the G3/G4's were designed to be easily upgradeable, with the neat handle that cracks the case open.
Gareth
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#246289 - 13/01/2005 16:45
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
A bit odd considering the G3/G4's were designed to be easily upgradeable, with the neat handle that cracks the case open.
G5's too. I think this is just more like the desk-lamp-iMac where it's more about form factor and price than upgradeability.
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#246290 - 13/01/2005 16:59
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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My brother has the "desk lamp" mac (is that the iMac G4 with flat panel?). It does look way cool, as usual.
He is a photographer and is constantly whining about the perfomance out of 512M system, especially with lots of edited pics open with his ever changing customer albums. Of course he is always running iTunes and other stuff at the same time.
He is also whining now because he wants a mac mini but has no display for it because each of his last three macs had integrated displays 
Edited by ashmoore (13/01/2005 17:03)
_________________________
==========================
the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#246291 - 13/01/2005 17:25
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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The reps I overheard at MW yesterday said that opening it up voids the warranty, and that they had designed "special tools" just to access the RAM in the mini. Take that for what it's worth. It's damn sexy... I found myself trying to figure out what I needed it for. They aren't super speedy. My Powerbook feels more responsive than the maxed out minis i was playing on. Should be perfect for most people though.
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#246292 - 13/01/2005 17:44
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
Cheers
Edited by mlord (13/01/2005 17:45)
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#246293 - 13/01/2005 19:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
It also shows nine sort of peg clip things that look to me very similar to the things that make the Rio Central so hard to open -- and that has only four of them and is plastic and three times the size.
Peter
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#246294 - 13/01/2005 19:18
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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_________________________
Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#246295 - 13/01/2005 19:48
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ricin]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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According to that article the hard disk is a 2.5" drive, but only 4200 RPM.
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246296 - 14/01/2005 03:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
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Quote:
The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
With Dremel or without?
_________________________
-Aaron
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#246297 - 14/01/2005 04:52
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
On Solaris, a good metric for if you need more memory is the "sr" field in vmstat. This says how hard the kernel is looking for pages to swap out. If it's consistently high, that means that the kernel is under constant pressure to swap and is having a hard time finding appropriate pages.
Maybe there's something similar in MacOSX?
I remember an article in Sun Expert saying that anything over about 15 was a heavly loaded machine. Mine was running in three digits. It took a long time to convince the holder of the purse strings that there was economy in reducing that number.
_________________________
Glenn
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#246298 - 14/01/2005 15:41
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: adavidw]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
With Dremel or without?
Just to add another confirmation, the Screen Savers had* someone at MacWorld, and he asked a rep on air if it was upgradeable. The rep didn't say whether or not it would violate the warranty, but he did say that only those authorized should upgrade it. Overall this machine doesn't impress me past its size.
*yeah, they had someone. They also sent him to CES. I believe the combined coverage of both mega conventions was about 20 minutes. 20 minutes of a show that's live for an hour every weekday. Oh how I hate G4. Hate it with a passion. I don't know how many of you still watch TSS but the one good thing remaining is how little it seems the people who survived the layoffs care about their jobs. It's entertaining.
_________________________
Matt
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#246299 - 14/01/2005 20:10
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Whilst we're on the subject of upgrading memory. If I wanted to upgrade the memory in my iBook where can I get it done in the UK without screwing my warranty? There's only one apple store in the UK and that's in London.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246300 - 14/01/2005 20:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Anyone listed here under "Find Service" can do it with Apple's blessing. Expect the additude to be not so friendly about Apple though, since it seems they are now starting to screw over the independant resellers in the UK much like they have here in the US. The same resellers that kept Apple alive in the early to mid 90's now get to compete with Apple stores that have nearly unlimited money to make a nice store. The best idea I saw as in Amsterdam where Apple worked with one of the resellers to remodel into a "Pro" store. It looks much like an Apple official store, but still is owned by the reseller and the employees with years of Apple experience.
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#246301 - 14/01/2005 20:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Seriously, Andy? One Apple-branded store or one brick-and-mortar retailer selling Apple, PERIOD? Either way, makes one question the corporate U.K. commitment, doesn't it?
_________________________
-- DLF
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#246302 - 14/01/2005 20:26
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Dignan]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
Just to add another confirmation, the Screen Savers had* someone at MacWorld, and he asked a rep on air if it was upgradeable. The rep didn't say whether or not it would violate the warranty, but he did say that only those authorized should upgrade it.
Just seen this linked from /.
http://tuaw.com/entry/1234000917027372/
Gareth
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#246303 - 14/01/2005 20:57
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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You can upgrade memory and disks and airport in any Apple machine without voiding your warranty. I suspect this will also be the case for the new Mac Mini, regardless of what some people are being told. They simply suggest the upgrades be done by authorized reps. Too bad most authorized reps are completely clueless tools who may or may not completely f*ck your toy. I know I have to take my PowerBook in for repair specifically because the asshats at TRG Computers (Newmarket, ON Canada) screwed up my enclosure and keyboard. (You may notice a lot of doublle characters in what I type as ony one symptom of this problem.)
Confirmed upgrading memory doesn't void the warranty (unless you break something): http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300572
They wouldn't (and can't) use a word like 'should' if they had a warranty voiding policy in place. it would be mandatory to have this clearly spelled out.
Bruno
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#246304 - 14/01/2005 21:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
One Apple-branded store or one brick-and-mortar retailer selling Apple,
PERIOD?
One Apple branded stored, it opened in November last year. They are opening another one, just outside London (at Bluewater) this year.
http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/regentstreet/
But heh, they have a genius bar !
http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/regentstreet/genius.html
Macs are sold lots of other places now, even in normal high street stores. Back in the nineties they were pretty much only sold by independant Mac specialists.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#246305 - 17/01/2005 15:36
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Good find, Bruno. 
_________________________
-- DLF
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#246306 - 17/01/2005 21:48
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
7) always running QuickSilver (baddest-ass mac app ever, by the way)
I finally installed this after having a Powerbook owning coworker tell me a bit about it. Now I have it bound to my F16 key (Since Apple decided to add another F key on the newer keyboards). The quick access to web bookmarks alone is worth it here.
One thing it made me realise, the site icon for here could use some work instead of being the UBB lightbulb.
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#246307 - 19/01/2005 18:05
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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You could at least color it to be more like an empeg. Not that I even own one, but bright BLUE would be pretty....
_________________________
-- DLF
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#246308 - 19/01/2005 20:58
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Presumably the future mac-mini owners here have now found and downloaded the short video showing exactly how to open the case (for upgrades) in 20 seconds flat?
Cheers
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