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#247473 - 26/01/2005 01:32 Wireless receiver... booster?
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
This is going to be kind of wordy and probably not very well explained, so let me please apologize in advance.
In fact if you want you could probably just skip on down to the bottom and get right to the point.

Ok heres the situation:
I live in the Pacific Northwest on one of the San Juan Islands.
The only internet available to us out here is dial-up.
No broadband, no DSL. Nothing...

I currently have a dial-up and the best connection I can get is 26.4kbps (due to distance from the CO), which is killing me.
There's a wireless internet company across the bay that can beam me a wireless internet signal, but the install is $450 and $99 a month US.
Thats a little spendy...

Now, theres a guy down the hill from me who signed up for their service and is recieving this signal, and piping it into a boosted Apple Airport up on top of a phone pole. He then lets his neighbors who can recieve the signal use it and they then split the cost of the $99 bucks a month.
He said I could jump on the bandwagon if I could get the signal.

Unfortunately, with the wireless card in my PC I get nothing.
I live about 300 feet up on the side of a mountain, and he's down at about sea level no more than 3-400 feet from me.
My question is, is there any sort of device or apparatus, I can get to maybe improve my chances of recieving his signal?
A directional antenna I can put up on the roof or something?
Or am I doomed to have to wait a couple of years for DSL to get here?
I currently have a little linksys wireless network in the house between my 2 PC's and my Tivo.

Other than this little issue I love living here.

Heres a pretty picture from my backyard for having the patience to get to the end of my babbling diatribe.


Attachments
246877-IMG_3383(Small).jpg (130 downloads)

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...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247474 - 26/01/2005 01:48 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
You could get a directional antenna and put it outside then you would have to get a pcmcia card for the laptop that you could hook the external antenna to.

Have you tried to pick the signal up from outside the house ?

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#247475 - 26/01/2005 02:43 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Yes, as Matt asked, the real question is if you can get signal from your roof easily enough. Do you have any sort of line of sight on the boosted AP? If you can't get signal on your roof, you'll need to invesitgate directional antennas.

Once you've devised a way to get the signal, what you need is something to relay the signal. One way to do this is to buy a repeater or get a wireless card with an antenna input, but that's not what I'd reccomend.

Instead, go buy yourself a AP Client and a good AP/router. (WRT54g is probably the best choice these days for access points). Plug your laptop into the ap client, get it set up and connected to his wireless network, and then plug that cable into the WAN port of your router, and configure it normally.

Now you've got a nice way to connect and your wired/wireless computers, and it should be fairly reliable and keep your computers secure from everyone else he's sharing with. You can investigate outdoor housings and power over ethernet if you need to move your AP client outside to get a signal.

Matthew

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#247476 - 26/01/2005 02:59 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
Currently, I'm getting wireless internet exactly the way you envision it. It can work. You pretty much just need the antenna and a router.

What I've got is basically a little wireframe antenna, on a pole on the roof, connected to a special piece of super-thick low-loss antenna cable, that connects to a homebrew wireless router. The homebrew wireless router is actually an Orinoco PCMCIA card with an external antenna jack, pigtailed to the thick antenna cable. That card is plugged into a little single-board 386 computer running a customized Debian that boots off of a flash card. That board-computer is the router. It was all designed, built, and programmed by my ISP.

You could probably accomplish exactly the same thing with an off-the-shelf wireless router and an external antenna.

BUT... Before you do it... Consider these points:

1. Reselling his bandwidth to downstream customers, your neighbor is probably breaking his contractual agreement with the service provider. So you could both get in trouble for doing it if you get caught.

2. I'm getting my service for less than half the price your neighbor is paying, and I'm doing it legally. I think he's being robbed, and you guys should confront the ISP about it.

3. Your neighbor might not be getting the full 11-megabit bandwidth. He might be getting a subset of that bandwidth. In which case, you guys will be fighting over the available space any time you're on the line together. This might not be a big deal for you guys, but you should check into exactly how much bandwidth that $99.00 is getting him.

4. Your in-home wireless network will interfere with the uplink to his wireless network, unless you're careful about configuring the routers.

5. Your directional antenna, at your end only, might be enough. But if it's not, then he'll have to set up a similar antenna at his end. This gets tricky.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#247477 - 26/01/2005 14:48 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: tfabris]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
I havent checked to see if I can get the signal from the roof.
No laptop.

My neighbor is distributing his signal with blessings from the ISP, so thats not an issue.

Where and what kind of directional antennas are available?
Are they expensive?

I'm still kind of hazy on what I need to do with the coax from the antenna.
Say I get my hands on a crappy old laptop and I can get a signal from my roof with a directional antenna. I then pipe the coax into the old laptop somehow?
And it needs to be running what?
Then from the old laptop into my Linksys 802.11B router? Or do I need another kind of router.
I also happen to have an old Cisco Catalyst switch lying around, would throwing that into the mix somewhere help maybe?
I'm pretty computer savvy, but this kind of wireless networking is a little beyond me. And I've been out of the tech loop for about two and half years now.

Sorry to ask you guys to dumb this down for me.

So far it looks like with a little work and some know-how this could be doable though.
_________________________
...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247478 - 26/01/2005 16:37 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
jmwking
old hand

Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 777
Loc: Washington, DC metro
You can always try this .

$6.45



-jk

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#247479 - 26/01/2005 16:39 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I'm still kind of hazy on what I need to do with the coax from the antenna.

Well, if you're using already using a wireless router, they have stubby little antennas on them, right?

In most cases, those stubby little antennas are connected to the router via a little BNC plug. Just unhook the stubby antenna and connect the coax to that.

I don't know sources for the outdoor antennas, my ISP handles all that himself...
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#247480 - 26/01/2005 17:04 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: tfabris]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Holy smokes! Your right.
I took the antenna off and it is just a coax plug. Had no idea...

Maybe one of these antennas would work?
Not sure what DB range I would need though.
I'm thinking maybe 15 or 19db?
_________________________
...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247481 - 26/01/2005 17:06 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: jmwking]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Quote:
You can always try this .

$6.45



-jk

I love Pringles!
_________________________
...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247482 - 26/01/2005 17:10 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Those antennas look good. Make sure you understand the difference between an access point ("AP") and access point client ("AP Client"). What you've got now probably isn't enough, but buying an AP Client that will take those antennas should probably get you there in terms of gear. There's definitly no need to venture into the realm of custom debian installs on 386 SBC's to do it these days.

Matthew

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#247483 - 26/01/2005 17:15 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Maybe one of these antennas would work?

Yes, those are the sort of thing that my ISP uses. One of those looks like the one on my roof right now.

But the thing is, it's pointing at something that's about 7 miles away. So even a small low-gain antenna might be enough for you. Your problem is more likely one of elevation and line-of-sight than of antenna gain.

You might be able to get a decent signal just by carrying the router up to your roof.

At that point, though, resist the temptation to put the router in your attic. I did that once, worked fine through the winter, but when spring came I started getting strange errors. The routers would start failing each afternoon with regularity. Turns out the equipment won't work when it's in a hot environment and needs to be at room temperature to function.

So you'll probably want an external antenna anyway. The pringles can might be enough antenna gain for you, unfortunately pringles cans aren't ruggedized for weather. So you're probably looking at a purchase. But try the router-on-the-roof thing to see if you get a signal, first.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#247484 - 26/01/2005 18:12 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Keep an eye on this Qwest disclosure spreadsheet to see if any DSLAMs loading on the ferry to the San Juans. I just looked at it, though, and see zilch for San Juan County.

There is a bandit wireless outfit providing service to marinas in Friday and Roche Harbors, maybe elsewhere. Couldn't be certain of your island from the pic or whether that would help. Their quality of service is mixed. Find them here.

And maybe somebody else linked Seattle Wireless' FAQ.
It might have some relevant info. and they used to have good DIY antenna info.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#247485 - 26/01/2005 18:17 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: jimhogan]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Keep an eye on this Qwest disclosure spreadsheet to see if any DSLAMs loading on the ferry to the San Juans.

Even if one shows up, it could be a year or more before service actually gets offered.

At my former residence, we got brand new B-boxes right next to our house, and it was two years after those appeared before DSL was available in that area (i.e., long after we'd moved to a new place).

"Project Pronto" my ass.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#247486 - 26/01/2005 18:50 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: tfabris]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
At my former residence, we got brand new B-boxes right next to our house, and it was two years after those appeared before DSL was available in that area (i.e., long after we'd moved to a new place).

Sure. But depending on copper, luck and whimsy, sometimes it comes up quick. A positive change in the spreadsheet just might limit the effort I'd put into alternatives like Starband (the only service some eastern WA acquaintances have).
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#247487 - 27/01/2005 00:40 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: jimhogan]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Quote:
Keep an eye on this Qwest disclosure spreadsheet to see if any DSLAMs loading on the ferry to the San Juans. I just looked at it, though, and see zilch for San Juan County.


Hmm page sez not found. Guess I'll check again later.
(I figured it out. The date in the URL changed.
Oh boy, 762K that'll only take about 10 minutes. )


I live on Lummi Island which is actually part of Whatcom County.
In the pic, across the water from me is Bellingham and Fairhaven.


Edited by fusto (27/01/2005 00:59)
_________________________
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#247488 - 27/01/2005 00:42 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: tfabris]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Quote:
Quote:
Keep an eye on this Qwest disclosure spreadsheet to see if any DSLAMs loading on the ferry to the San Juans.

Even if one shows up, it could be a year or more before service actually gets offered.


Qwest has been promising DSL to islanders here every year for the past 3.
The last update from the rumor mill was another 18 months.
_________________________
...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247489 - 27/01/2005 00:52 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: matthew_k]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Quote:
Those antennas look good. Make sure you understand the difference between an access point ("AP") and access point client ("AP Client").


Maybe somebody could clarify for me?


And a question about taking my router up onto my roof to see if I can get the signal.
I know I'm probably missing something totally obvious but isnt the linksys router that I have a broadcast device only?

i.e. you feed it the internet through a cable and it broadcasts the wirelss signal through its antenna to the clients. How can I set it up to recieve via the antennas?
Wouldnt it be better for me to take off the antenna on my wireless PCI card in my desktop, attach a coax cable and then my antenna, and bring that up onto the roof.
Or am I missing something...
_________________________
...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247490 - 27/01/2005 01:26 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
I would just go up there with the laptop and see if you can connect that way first. If you can get it that way than putting an antenna up there would work for sure.
_________________________

Matt

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#247491 - 27/01/2005 01:52 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: msaeger]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Quote:
I would just go up there with the laptop and see if you can connect that way first. If you can get it that way than putting an antenna up there would work for sure.


No laptop...

Maybe I'll try and dig one up somewhere.
_________________________
...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#247492 - 27/01/2005 02:00 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Ahh sorry I though you had a laptop for some reason.
_________________________

Matt

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#247493 - 27/01/2005 02:07 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Oh boy, 762K that'll only take about 10 minutes. )

Ten minutes! I would complain to your broadband provider!

Oh, yeah Lummi. You mentioned that way back when. I never thought of Lummi as part of teh San Juans, but I stand corrected/informed.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#247494 - 27/01/2005 05:34 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: fusto]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Maybe somebody could clarify for me?


An access point connects to the ethernet network and create a wireless network you can connect to it from multiple clients. An AP Client is a box which is a client to a wireless network and allows you to connect anything that has an ethernet port to the wireless network. You seem to have some idea about this though, as you realize you can't just haul your wireless router up to the roof and use it to connect to the wireless network.

If I were you I'd order an AP client (which are also called "wireless-ethernet bridges" or wireless console adapters) and a long piece of cat5 so you can look for the signal. Or if a laptop is easily available hunt around with that.

Matthew

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#247495 - 27/01/2005 11:53 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: matthew_k]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Quote:
AP client (which are also called "wireless-ethernet bridges" or wireless console adapters)


Something like a Linksys WAP11 in AP client mode (easy to change via web interface) would work well. The antennae pop right off and you can attach one of those hyperlink antennae. The connector you need on the pigtail or cable for Linksys would be a RP-TNC (RP = reverse polarity).

I actually have a couple of RP-TNC to N-Female 18 in. pigtails that I'm not using. I'll send you one free of charge if you want to use this sort of setup (would still require an N-Male to N-Male cable to the antenna.)

You'll want the cable from the AP client to the antenna to be as short as possible. Basically, just long enough to get to someplace waterproof with power (ie...in the attic). You can run a long ethernet cable from there.

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#247496 - 29/01/2005 00:31 Re: Wireless receiver... booster? [Re: JBjorgen]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
Quote:
Something like a Linksys WAP11 in AP client mode (easy to change via web interface) would work well. The antennae pop right off and you can attach one of those hyperlink antennae. The connector you need on the pigtail or cable for Linksys would be a RP-TNC (RP = reverse polarity).
I actually have a couple of RP-TNC to N-Female 18 in. pigtails that I'm not using. I'll send you one free of charge if you want to use this sort of setup (would still require an N-Male to N-Male cable to the antenna.)

Hey that sounds like a pretty good idea.
The WAP11 is very reasonably priced. Defintely worth experimenting with.
That'd be great if you could send me a pigtail. I'm sure I can find a cable locally somewhere.
PM me if you want to send me the pigtail and I'll give you my mailing address.

Thanks!
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...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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