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#247814 - 27/01/2005 18:52 Apple
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi,

I've allways liked the design of the apple computers - but hated the OS. Now since the OS X was introduced i have been tempted a couple of times to buy one of the gorgeus powerbooks.. I've been a pc (win+linux) user for nearly two decades - and even though my current Ibm T40 suits me just fine - i want to try an apple powerbook.

The last couple of year i've using my groupwise mail client and word, excel, powerpoint, visio, photoshop, nearly 99% of the time that i spend infront of the computer.

Groupwise 6.5 client comes in a mac version. Word comes in a mac version (which i gather is more or less file compatible?! with Windows word XP) so that should be no problem. I'm connected to a Novell network, using iFolder (web based fileservices) and ndps printers (also mac compatible) - for the rest i could settle for virtual pc (does it have full usb support for my karma?)

What are the pros and cons of switching to a powerbook - is there any major drawbacks ??

I'm really tempted!

--Kaare

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#247815 - 27/01/2005 19:08 Re: Apple [Re: _hardcore_]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Everything you listed has a Mac counterpart that is file compatible. I've never used groupwise however so you've got me on that one.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, switching to this Powerbook has been one of the best things i've done in a long time. I got so sick of the PC headaches. Everything i've wanted to do on this thing has either just worked or been stupid easy to figure out. The workflow is just phenomenal with apps like Quicksilver, Sidetrack, iTerm, and Expose. The only thing i've had to use Virtual PC for so far is for my GPS. Having a *nix under the hood is so amazing I can't even tell ya. If you are Linux savvy you'll love it.

As for the Karma... correct me if i'm wrong here those who have them... but doesn't iTunes work out of the box with the Karma? I was floored when Kelly's Riot just popped up in iTunes so i'd imagine the Karma would as well.

I did have to have my logic board replaced for a RAM slot issue, but it took a whopping DAY to get it back from the Apple store here in SF. Talk about support man. Unbelievable. If you don't have a local service center repairs turnarounds are what... 2 weeks at most from what I gather?

You might want to wait a bit.. the new speed bumped powerbooks are supposedly a couple weeks away, and the G5's are just around the corner.

I can't recommend them enough!
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#247816 - 27/01/2005 22:39 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
No, the Karma does not work with iTunes. I usually keep the Karma ethernet attached and use RMMLite or JEmplode to send music over to it. Firmware upgrades do require a Windows machine however, but that does include working from VirtualPC.

Honestly if you like using Linux, a Powerbook should be a good fit. You get some awesome apps out of the box for doing mundane things like photo managment, plus can bring over most Linux apps using Gentoo for OS X or FINK.

Visio might be the problamatic application. I know there are several similar apps on the Powerbook (Including Omnigraffle that may come with your Powerbook, it did mine), but I don't know if any have Visio compatibility.

*Edit* Just read the Omni page closer, it looks like Omnigraffle Pro can read and write to Visio 2002 files. Guess there is some good coming out of the move to XML by Microsoft in their Office apps.


Edited by drakino (27/01/2005 23:51)
_________________________
Tom

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#247817 - 27/01/2005 23:36 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
phi144
enthusiast

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
I second the recommendation on the Powerbook. I agree with Loren. I couldn't be happier with mine.

Loren, I read the comment about iTunes working with a Riot. I had one sitting in a drawer for a year and a half. I dug it out and plugged it in and I see iTunes DOES pick it up. I noticed it didn't show the right amount of disk space but all the songs were there. I'll charge it up and see what happens. I wouldn't mind having it sit near the stereo.

Thanks for the tip.
_________________________
Doug

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#247818 - 28/01/2005 08:44 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5844
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:
Guess there is some good coming out of the move to XML by Microsoft in their Office apps.


If you've ever looked at the XML that they create you might conclude that it is just as "easy" to reverse engineer a binary proprietry file format as it is to parse the Office XML files...

Mind you, I just ran across a similar case on the Mac. I was trying to find out how to read Garageband files in my app. Apple don't publish the file format and have said they have no plans to. I was suprised and delighted when I opened a Garageband file to find it was XML. Delighted that is until I read further down the file and found the <data></data> node that contained all the interesting stuff in a single base64 encoded block. So much for the openness of XML
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#247819 - 28/01/2005 11:09 Re: Apple [Re: andy]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
I was suprised and delighted when I opened a Garageband file to find it was XML. Delighted that is until I read further down the file and found the <data></data> node that contained all the interesting stuff in a single base64 encoded block. So much for the openness of XML

Nice. Do you get the feeling that the programmers got told to make it XML at some late point in development?

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#247820 - 28/01/2005 13:06 Re: Apple [Re: tman]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5844
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I think it to do with some of the builtin stuff in Mac OS X. I think it is a plist file, which contains XML.

It looks like of like this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>$archiver</key>
<string>NSKeyedArchiver</string>
<key>$objects</key>
<array>
<string>$null</string>
<dict>
<key>$class</key>
<dict>
<key>CF$UID</key>
<integer>2</integer>
</dict>
<key>DfTestModelCheckboxValue</key>
<false />
</dict>
<dict>
<key>$classes</key>
<array>
<string>DfTestModel</string>
<string>NSObject</string>
</array>
<key>$classname</key>
<string>DfTestModel</string>
</dict>
<dict>
<key>$class</key>
<dict>
<key>CF$UID</key>
<integer>5</integer>
</dict>
<key>DfLogicModelLogicSong</key>
<dict>
<key>CF$UID</key>
<integer>4</integer>
</dict>
</dict>
<data>q8BHEwUXABUABAAkCRXwAAAAAAQAAAkV+fwJFfykCReYOglpsZAAlgAAAJYA AAABAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJFoc0AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAknwAAST4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP////8AAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwMEAAQoAAAAAAAAAABk

etc, etc...
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#247821 - 28/01/2005 15:28 Re: Apple [Re: andy]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah, the OS X preference for config files and other things is .plist files, aka XML. By what I understand, they have an API that makes it real easy for a program to save settings to ~/Library, similar to the API hools in Windows to save to the registry.

The use of XML by both Trillian and Proteus made it pretty simple to migrate my massive IM list over, keeping my custom renamed contacts and metacontacts in the move.
_________________________
Tom

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#247822 - 28/01/2005 15:42 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Is Proteus *THE* IM to use on the Mac? I've been meaning to post about this since getting my PowerBook (here's another vote for going Apple mobile).

Currently there's still no text editor to match TextPad for Windows, but the closest seems to be BBEdit/TextWrangler (TW features most of BB's features and was recently made free).

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#247823 - 28/01/2005 15:47 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
Quote:
blah blah blah...

*Edit* Just read the Omni page closer, it looks like Omnigraffle Pro can read and write to Visio 2002 files. Guess there is some good coming out of the move to XML by Microsoft in their Office apps.


Seriously? When I read the 'XML' announcement from M$, I honestly thought it was a joke. You're saying it has been proven to actually facilitate cross-platform file-sharing betw. differing Mac/PC apps?!
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-- DLF

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#247824 - 28/01/2005 15:55 Re: Apple [Re: andy]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
Ahh, a 64-bit encoded block o'crap inside an XML data wrapper, eh?

That 'xplains it....
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-- DLF

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#247825 - 28/01/2005 15:57 Re: Apple [Re: hybrid8]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Proteus was ok back when I switched, but has made some bad moves in my eyes. It has recently been taken over by another company who is improving the problems introduced by versions 3 and 4, but it is slow going.

Adium seems to be the popular one these days to go for. I'm probably going to switch to it if I ever reload my Powerbook, but that might only be around the time Tiger comes out.
_________________________
Tom

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#247826 - 28/01/2005 18:45 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Been using Adium from the get go. No voice or video though... use iChat AV for those if needed.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#247827 - 29/01/2005 05:05 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Do either Proteus or Adium support any type of encrypted chat? I know Fire does, but the last time I used it, the UI left a lot to be desired.

Adium looked decent from what I saw on the web page. But I didn't see anything that made it stand out over Proteus. I'll likely try both of them.

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#247828 - 29/01/2005 13:53 Re: Apple [Re: hybrid8]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Not sure about encrypted chat. Hadn't even looked for it in Adium.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#247829 - 29/01/2005 19:38 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Everything you listed has a Mac counterpart that is file compatible. I've never used groupwise however so you've got me on that one.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, switching to this Powerbook has been one of the best things i've done in a long time. I got so sick of the PC headaches. Everything i've wanted to do on this thing has either just worked or been stupid easy to figure out. The workflow is just phenomenal with apps like Quicksilver, Sidetrack, iTerm, and Expose. The only thing i've had to use Virtual PC for so far is for my GPS. Having a *nix under the hood is so amazing I can't even tell ya. If you are Linux savvy you'll love it.

As for the Karma... correct me if i'm wrong here those who have them... but doesn't iTunes work out of the box with the Karma? I was floored when Kelly's Riot just popped up in iTunes so i'd imagine the Karma would as well.

I did have to have my logic board replaced for a RAM slot issue, but it took a whopping DAY to get it back from the Apple store here in SF. Talk about support man. Unbelievable. If you don't have a local service center repairs turnarounds are what... 2 weeks at most from what I gather?

You might want to wait a bit.. the new speed bumped powerbooks are supposedly a couple weeks away, and the G5's are just around the corner.

I can't recommend them enough!


It's hard not to be convinced into buying a powerbook.. One thing that i forgot to mention - i hardly ever play a game at all, last game i played regulary was raptor back when it was released in '94(?)..

I think i'll wait a month or so, before i buy anything - want to wait for a G5 or a faster G4 powerbook.

Thanks for the feedback.

\\Kaare

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#247830 - 29/01/2005 19:42 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
By the way - can you recommend any apple related forums/sites ?

\\Kaare

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#247831 - 29/01/2005 19:57 Re: Apple [Re: _hardcore_]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I find the boards at MacNN to be ok. For the most part my questions have been answered pretty quickly. Just keep in mind it is a high volume board, so things like e-mail subscriptions to threads you post in become even more useful.
_________________________
Tom

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#247832 - 29/01/2005 21:43 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks - just read an article on anandtech linked from macnn (about the powerbook) - made up my mind and ordered a 15" powerbook..

\\Kaare

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#247833 - 29/01/2005 23:52 Re: Apple [Re: _hardcore_]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Hahah... couldn't hold off could ya! There's also some forums on apple's website, but they aren't the best. They are surprising low volume though.

I highly recommend Sidetrack (turns the sides of your trackpad into scroll bars and corners into whatever you want), and Quicksilver (hard to describe, but it allows super fast access to files without touching the mouse). Those two apps I can't live without on my Powerbook.

I spent all of last night moving my mail and address book out of Entourage and into the Apple Mail, Address Book, and iCal programs, which are damn nice. I now have everything synced in my phone and various places. Entourage is needless bloat. If iPhoto would only catch up to something like iView Media Pro (it's getting close with iPhoto5) then i'd be all about the iLife apps. =]

God I love how it all just works together!
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#247834 - 30/01/2005 02:36 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
(it's getting close with iPhoto5)


So you have iLife 05? Is it worth the $80 upgrade fee? The old price of $50 I could probably justify without much thought, but $80 is a bit harder. I may just wait to get a new powerbook (or a mini) sometime this year and just get it bundled.
_________________________
Tom

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#247835 - 30/01/2005 02:52 Re: Apple [Re: _hardcore_]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
You ordered already anyway, but I just wanted to let you know you won't be seeing a G5 Powerbook any time soon. Hopefully that makes you feel even better about your purchase.

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#247836 - 30/01/2005 03:06 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I was just talking to someone today about scrolling with the pad. I mentioned that the OS didn't support this natively but that someone must have written a tool for it. Now I know the name of such a program, thanks. I'll give it a shot. I don't have the pad click ability enabled because it drove me up the wall no matter how I set it, but I can see muself using the scrolling. Mac OS X definitely spoils you on the keyboard shortcuts - when they're used consistently.

iLife... For me, mostly fluff unfortunately. I don't get the chance to use anything except iTunes once in a while. But I agree, iDVD and iMovie are pretty good. I have no interest in Garageband though and iPhoto has always bee sub-par (and that's being extremely kind).

I'm going to move all my archived mail over to Thunderbird and then see how well I can get a scheduled backup going and if I can also get at it from my Windows machines (using TheBat with multiple machines was very easy). I've had the PB since August but have yet to sync it with my phone (T68i). There a really neat application that will put up nice caller display messages on your screen when someone calls on your phone - gets the info from your address book - you can answer or reject the call right from the computer too (though you have to use the phone to talk - for now). Makes using any bluetooth phone with Mac OS much nicer. I forget the name as I don't have it installed right now, but I'll post it when I remember.

I don't have my PB very customized or anything, I just do day-to-day with Firefox and a number of other programs.

Microsoft Remote Destop Conection client to connect to my PCs at home (so I rarely ever actually use them hands-on anymore).
TextWrangler (now free) text editor.
MPlayer (with Mac OS X GUI) for playing movies - I only use QuickTime player for movie trailers.
RCDefaultApp to define what application is used for various URLs, file extensions, filetypes, etc.. Invaluable.
Will probably start using Web Confidential (Mac and Windows) for password (and other info) storage.

Still need a really good Hex editor (looking for something as good as Hex Workshop for Windows ideally.

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#247837 - 30/01/2005 03:11 Re: Apple [Re: hybrid8]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
There a really neat application that will put up nice caller display messages on your screen when someone calls on your phone - gets the info from your address book - you can answer or reject the call right from the computer too (though you have to use the phone to talk - for now). Makes using any bluetooth phone with Mac OS much nicer. I forget the name as I don't have it installed right now, but I'll post it when I remember.


Address Book does this. As long as a bluetooth phone is paired, it puts a bluetooth icon in the bar. Turning that on will pop up a caller ID display with answer/reject/send SMS options.
_________________________
Tom

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#247838 - 30/01/2005 03:13 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
But you have to see the way this other program does it - and the confirguration options. It's just extremely slick.

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#247839 - 30/01/2005 13:10 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Hahah... couldn't hold off could ya! There's also some forums on apple's website, but they aren't the best. They are surprising low volume though.

I highly recommend Sidetrack (turns the sides of your trackpad into scroll bars and corners into whatever you want), and Quicksilver (hard to describe, but it allows super fast access to files without touching the mouse). Those two apps I can't live without on my Powerbook.

I spent all of last night moving my mail and address book out of Entourage and into the Apple Mail, Address Book, and iCal programs, which are damn nice. I now have everything synced in my phone and various places. Entourage is needless bloat. If iPhoto would only catch up to something like iView Media Pro (it's getting close with iPhoto5) then i'd be all about the iLife apps. =]

God I love how it all just works together!


Nope.. Couldn't hold off.. Actually the movie clips from the article at Andantechs website sold it to me.. I'm a sucker for a smooth interface.

By Browsing Apples website i found a nifty product that i ordered along with the powerbook. Its the device called "Griffin PowerMate" - looks like what i've been missing for a couple of years!..

\\Kaare

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#247840 - 30/01/2005 13:17 Re: Apple [Re: hybrid8]
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
You ordered already anyway, but I just wanted to let you know you won't be seeing a G5 Powerbook any time soon. Hopefully that makes you feel even better about your purchase.

Bruno


Thanks.. I more or less of that opinion after reading a little at the macnn.com forums! - so i thought, what could i loose! I'm a first time Apple buyer - surely i wouldn't be able to notice the difference..

\\Kaare

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#247841 - 30/01/2005 17:24 Re: Apple [Re: _hardcore_]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Bruno: RE: scrolling. SideTrack allows you to use the corners of the pad for tapping without enabling the entire pad for clicking, which i hate as well. I just use the corners for Expose functions, and the upper right to simulate a right click. It takes a little getting used to but there are plenty of ways to modify the sensitivity so that it works well for you.

The program you are talking about is BluePhoneElite I think. I use it... it's definitely slick. The SMS browser built into it is super useful if you SMS alot.

Tom: I just say that about iPhoto from using it at Macworld. I can't justify the $$ either.

Kaare: The Powermate... that's another cool gadget that I can't justify. What are you planning on using it for?

EDIT: Hahah... the bug is going around. After destroying two old PC laptops with viruses and spyware to the point where I don't even want to bother with them... Kelly has decided to go pick up an iBook today, which means an ever so dangerous trip to the Apple Store!


Edited by loren (30/01/2005 19:23)
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#247842 - 30/01/2005 20:44 Re: Apple [Re: loren]
_hardcore_
member

Registered: 22/09/2000
Posts: 195
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Kaare: The Powermate... that's another cool gadget that I can't justify. What are you planning on using it for?

EDIT: Hahah... the bug is going around. After destroying two old PC laptops with viruses and spyware to the point where I don't even want to bother with them... Kelly has decided to go pick up an iBook today, which means an ever so dangerous trip to the Apple Store!


As i read alot of large dokuments on my pc today, rather than printing them out on paper - i missing my scrollwheel alot!!.. My only work pc is a IBM T40 and i dont care to attach a mouse only for the scrollwheel, but this powermate device seems to be just what i've been looking for! It'll also come in handy when editing snowboard movies!!

\\Kaare

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#247843 - 30/01/2005 21:12 Re: Apple [Re: drakino]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5844
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:
Just read the Omni page closer, it looks like Omnigraffle Pro can read and write to Visio 2002 files. Guess there is some good coming out of the move to XML by Microsoft in their Office apps.


Looks like Microsoft took an extra step recently as well:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/xml/default.mspx

They have actually published all the schemas for Office 2003 and documentation, with a non restrictive licence.
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