#252139 - 21/03/2005 13:07
Dead MK2?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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I have an MK2 with 16 mb RAM (upgraded at Cincinnati meet.) Yesterday it started freezing every ten minutes or so and I had to pull it from the sled and reboot in order to get it to run again. After doing this for a couple hours, it stopped altogether. It now looks like it's sleeping when plugged in, but no response from the buttons or anything. Here's a serial log: Code:
empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 ([email protected])
On DC power, quick boot
That's it. Same thing on AC and DC power. Any ideas? (Am going to open it up and check the cables next.)
_________________________
~ John
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#252140 - 21/03/2005 13:17
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Upon visual inspection, all cables seem to be seated properly and all the screws for the disks are in place.
_________________________
~ John
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#252141 - 21/03/2005 14:32
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
On DC power, quick boot
Well, your first hurdle is the fact that it thinks it's on DC power. Without resolving this, it's probably not going to be listening for Ctrl+T, which is almost certainly the first thing anyone would tell you to check.
Is there any way that you can check the continuity of the leaf spring doodad in the power socket?
My only other suggestion at this point is to try it with the disks unplugged completely.
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-- roger
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#252142 - 22/03/2005 10:36
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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It was on DC power (MLord dock.) I'll try on AC Power and see what I get when I get to the office.
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~ John
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#252143 - 22/03/2005 18:53
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Here's a new boot log. It's on AC power now with no drives in it. Code:
empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 ([email protected])
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...it seems not. Let fly the Penguins of Linux!
e000 v1.04
Copying kernel...
Calling linux kernel...
(undefined instruction vector)
_________________________
~ John
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#252144 - 22/03/2005 19:46
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Ok...looking at that log, I guessed that the kernel image was corrupt. I decided to try to load the latest hijack kernel I had on hand (v413). It loaded fine and booted to the no hard disk found, contact support (disks are still out of the player.)
Any idea what could have caused the kernel image to get corrupted while riding down the road in the car?
_________________________
~ John
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#252145 - 22/03/2005 20:36
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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bitrot is always possible with flash memory..
The electrons simply manage to escape from their ''well'' once in a while.
Cheers
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#252146 - 22/03/2005 20:53
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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/me pictures the poor bits, like prisoners in a prison camp, trying to claw their way out of holes in the ground.
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#252147 - 23/03/2005 12:24
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
bitrot is always possible with flash memory..
The electrons simply manage to escape from their ''well'' once in a while
It seems to be something more insidious. I got it to boot and play music for several hours here in the office. When I removed it and re-inserted it into the dock, it reverted to it's previous behavior. Same with in the vehicle.
Looks like it may be a case for Rob S?
_________________________
~ John
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#252148 - 27/07/2005 10:54
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Not that this is important until I can get it to Rob S., but I wanted to make sure I get this info in the thread while it's fresh in my memory:
I played with this a little more since it was the only empeg I had on hand when the new alpha came out.
If I want the player to work, I must reflash the kernel every time I plug it in. After that, it continues to work fine until it is physically unplugged. It even survives multiple reboots. For example, yesterday, I upgraded to the new alpha, installed hijack, changed out the config.ini, upgraded the boot animation, etc... and then let it play all day. Worked great. As soon as I unplug it, nothing. Reflash kernel the next morning, works again. Unplug it, nothing. Ad infinitum.
I think I'm the only one to ever have this problem.
_________________________
~ John
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#252149 - 27/07/2005 11:04
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Do you have a boot log of it failing? It sounds like it might be bad flash, but that is extremely rare.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#252150 - 27/07/2005 11:31
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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There are two posted above. Here's a third and fourth:
Code:
empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 ([email protected])
(Yes...that's all.)
Code:
empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 ([email protected])
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...it seems not. Let fly the Penguins of Linux!
e000 v1.04
Copying kernel...
Calling linux kernel...
Uncompressing Linux...(data abort vector)
Notice every single one fails at a slightly different spot.
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#252151 - 27/07/2005 11:45
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Bad connection on the memory upgrade?
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#252152 - 27/07/2005 12:02
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Possibly. It did work for almost 6 months after the upgrade, although there were weird issues the last couple weeks.
If it were a memory problem, would it work fine after a kernel flash?
_________________________
~ John
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#252153 - 27/07/2005 12:17
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Possibly. It did work for almost 6 months after the upgrade, although there were weird issues the last couple weeks.
Vibration or just temperate differences since 6 months ago might have caused a connection to go bad.
Quote:
If it were a memory problem, would it work fine after a kernel flash?
If it is a memory problem then no, a kernel reflash won't fix it. A reflash will only fix it if the flash is corrupt. Can't hurt to try anyway. You can't damage anything unless you've fiddled with the flash protection pins inside.
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#252154 - 28/07/2005 14:10
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Just another data point, not sure if it'll help. A few days ago a sucessfuly installed v3.00 a11 on my MK2 and have been very pleased with it. So lastnight I decided to start the install of my 64M memory board from pca. First thing I did was to upgrade the boot flash by bridging the "prot" on the flash and installed boot9.rom as per the instructions. So after completing that flash, i removed the bridge and decided to power up once more before starting the removal of the existing ram chips. Lo and behold, I see the exact same problem which ends in "Uncompressing Linux...(data abort vector)". I decided to continue with the upgrade figuring it was because the new boot flash required more than 12M or something. Any thoughts?
Gregory
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#252155 - 28/07/2005 16:07
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: gogee2000]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Supposedly, the new boot loader code sets up the CPU to expect different memory sizes. Although the data word width is the same, the bank sizes are different.
The data abort message could be caused by the kernel when it attempts to access a memory structure that does not match the physical memory. Hence, there's a hardware vector call that sends the program counter to the handler for that CPU error condition. If the kernel has no handler installed to handle the condition, the CPU stalls.
Sounds to me like your physical memory map seems to have changed sometime. What happens if you try to run the memory tests at boot time? Repeatedly?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#252156 - 28/07/2005 16:35
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: schofiel]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Well, it's too late for me to try that with the original 6 chips since they are now removed. I did however try booting about a half dozen times before i just figured it was suppose to do that until I got the new memory board installed. I'll give a status update once that's done.
Gregory
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#252157 - 18/08/2005 21:49
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: gogee2000]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Ok, I finally received my MK2 mainboard back from Stuart who did a wonderful job installing my 64meg upgrade from Patrick. Just want to give a big thank you to both of you :-). But, things aren't working.
Now, I'm attaching the output of the first 3 boots of my MK2. I captured using minicom. The first boot scared the hell out of me, but the subsequent boots don't look very healty either. I'm not sure where the cutoff points are, so I'm leaving the text untouched.
I have already flashed the bootcode by jumpering the flash chip and I'm running v3.00a11 and Hijack v437. The player seems to load ok, but varies as to where it locks up shortly after, sometimes showing an hourglass symbol inside of a small square box on the center of the display.
Gregory Porras
edit: ok, seems like after playing with it for the past 10 minutes, every boot now looks like the first one in the attachment
Attachments
262901-empeg-newmem-boot.txt (267 downloads)
Edited by gogee2000 (18/08/2005 21:51)
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#252158 - 18/08/2005 22:05
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: gogee2000]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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The memory upgrade board seems to have come loose during shipping. The amount detected varies from 32MB to 48MB.
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#252159 - 19/08/2005 11:35
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: tman]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Ugh, though maybe it was something simple like the dipswitch settings on the memory board were out of whack. Guess I'll email Stuart and see what he can do. Probably about time I get my stock head unit put back in. I don't know how I've manage without anything for the past month.
Gregory
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#252160 - 19/08/2005 17:49
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: gogee2000]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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The memory is failing at the last test. When we sent it off to you, it was all passing. Can you check the RAS line on the Strongarm and see if it has come loose? Other than that, it is also possible that flex from installing the mainboard in the chassis could have caused a solder joint somewhere to come loose. It's hard to tell on this end as we only had the mainboard.
Let us know what you find,
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252161 - 19/08/2005 19:07
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
it is also possible that flex from installing the mainboard in the chassis could have caused a solder joint somewhere to come loose.
I think that the flex issue is going to be a very big one -- the only real weakness of the PCA memory expansion kit, but a biggie.
Cheers
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#252162 - 19/08/2005 20:57
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Yep, looks like that indeed is the issue. I opened up my empeg and checked for bowing. There is a slight bow due to the hotmelt glue protruding. So when i loosen the two screws towards the front of the main board, I get different boot results and different memory size. I tried to check the RAS line on the cpu, but there's so much gorilla snot I can't tell for sure if it's a solid connection.
I have a steady enough hand to reflow the connections, sans the ones convered in snot, but should I even attempt it, or just send the whole schmere back?
Thanks
Gregory
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#252163 - 19/08/2005 21:32
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Well, just for something to try, I flipped dip switch #4 to indicate 48meg install to see if disabling the last 16meg would make a difference (which I could live with) and I attached the output. The boot seems very consistent this way, no wacky characters or fluctuating memory sizes, always 48meg.
greg
Attachments
262958-empeg-newmem48meg-boot.txt (255 downloads)
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#252164 - 04/10/2005 19:08
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: gogee2000]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Update:
We received Gregory's MK2 Empeg back and did a few tests. It sigkills with anything but the first 16 megs of RAM and maxes out at 48 megs whether or not the 4th DIP switch is set to on or not. All connections are as they were when the mainboard left here when it was running happily at 64 megs. We resoldered all the holes several times, but with no change.
It seems that some traces under the memory board may have broken due to flex when the the board was installed into the case. At this point I don't see that anything can be done to improve this Empeg's memory count.
Attached is the bootlog with DIP switch 1 set to on with the other 3 off. This is the only position that the player will boot in.
Attachments
266676-empegmk2_dip1.txt (250 downloads)
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252165 - 04/10/2005 20:05
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Attached is the bootlog with DIP 1 and 2 set to on and the rest off. The unit sigkills with this setting.
Attachments
266683-empegmk2_dip12.txt (260 downloads)
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252166 - 04/10/2005 20:07
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Attached is the bootlog with DIP 1, 2, and 3 set to on and the rest off. The unit sigkills with this setting.
Attachments
266684-empegmk2_dip123.txt (280 downloads)
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252167 - 04/10/2005 20:08
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Attached is the bootlog with all 4 DIP switches set to on. The unit sigkills with this setting. Enabling the fourth switch no longer tests to 64 megs as it did when we first had this board.
Attachments
266685-empegmk2_dip1234.txt (260 downloads)
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252168 - 05/10/2005 13:10
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quadruple-check the power and GROUND lines connecting to the memory expansion board. Those seem to be the root of all evil..
Good luck!
(I'm having my own problems with the simpler +16MB stacking..)
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#252169 - 19/10/2005 00:34
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Thanks. Did that about 10 times. They are all solid. The flex separated something that can't be seen and won't reconnect.
I think we will just throw in the towel on this.
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252170 - 19/10/2005 12:41
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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So do you think I should just cut my losses and find another empeg on ebay? Or would it be worthwhile to possibly send it off to someone else for further troubleshooting?
Thanks
Greg
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#252171 - 19/10/2005 13:54
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: gogee2000]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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It sounds like your empeg still works, just not the memory expansion (which can be removed, or left and ignored).
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#252172 - 19/10/2005 14:32
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
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Well, considering the reason I first sent it to Stu for the application of the memory board after I borked up 2 pads when removing the old memory, I don't think I could refit the original memory :-(
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#252173 - 19/10/2005 14:35
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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It works fine. In fact it has 16 MB instead of 12. A very expensive way to get 4 MB indeed. We have a great desoldering gun, but we don't want to render the unit inoperable from some unforeseen damage incurred during the removal process. The board will have to be reinstalled because the original memory has of course been removed.
What do you guys think?
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#252174 - 19/10/2005 22:09
Re: Dead MK2?
[Re: maczrool]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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I have removed a PCATS memory expansion board twice. The first time, this was accomplished without damage to the underlying pads on the Empeg; the second time (same unit) was not so lucky -- messed up several pads, but was able to repair the traces with patch wires -- precludes any future attempts to reinstall the PCATS board, though.
I would leave it as is, or possibly see if any of the other banks on the expansion are usable, by rerouting the RAS lines to try each bank in turn on RAS1. But that could add up to quite a few more hours of effort.
Cheers
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