#254257 - 15/04/2005 00:51
Buying a poached / spaminated domain
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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The company which I formed to sell lit buttons has a simple name. The coresponding .com and .net domains are, of course, poached. Though I don't mind running my business from my ISP webspace, having a domain name would be nice.
So I ask more to start conversation than to have you guys do my homework for me (which I haven't done because I'm not too desperate for it): How DOES a reasonable person buy a poached domain? From the bidding and bluffing with the poachers, right down to the technical transfer of title via registrar; is it reasonably possible?
I'm assuming I'd need to speak to the poacher, who will, of course, name their price for the domain. To make them believe that I'm a one man side-job with a non-existant profit margin in order to get a better price seems to be the task at hand. Then, to transfer the domain from whatever registrar they chose may be tricky as well.
Has anyone here ever done it? Hey, I'd pay to have one less poached domain in the name space. Poor Jon Postel is spinning fast enough to generate electricity.
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#254258 - 15/04/2005 02:45
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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When you say poached do you mean one someone had bought just to try and resell for an inflated price ? If that's the case I wouldn't bother trying to get it just on principal.
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Matt
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#254259 - 16/04/2005 01:24
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: msaeger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Yes, it seems like they bought it just to resell because it's a simple name. It redirects you to a shady domain, throwing piles of popups, offering to be your homepage, and pretending to be a directory service when it's just a massive Google-bait link ring.
I wouldn't buy it on principle either, and I largely don't intend to, but I'm just curious about the process. Since the domain is likely part of a massive link ring, it probably has a bad reputation with the search engines. Hm... that seems like a good reason NOT to buy it.
It's so sad how quickly the filth of human greed will destroy a new unclaimed frontier such as the Internet circa 1995. Makes me want to buy the domain just to legitimately reclaim that one square inch of soiled ground.
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#254260 - 16/04/2005 01:53
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I don't know what name you are looking at but look at how many successful websites there are that have a name no one would ever think of buying because they are a made up word (like Ebay)
I don't know for sure how the process would work but I know you can transfer domains so I suppose you just pay the money and they tell whomever they registered the name with to transfer it to you. I suppose if you are worried about getting screwed over you would have to do a contract of some kind.
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Matt
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#254261 - 16/04/2005 02:46
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Yup, that totally stinks. Our band site is at www.steadyon.net because the .com version has been in legitimate use for a while- until about nine months ago that is. Unfortunately, we weren't paying close enough attention or we could have nabbed it when it became available. Now someone's just sitting on it trying to sell it and I'm just kicking myself . . . Now I will say this- the old .com site came up with a picture of a bull violating a cow first off. This did not impress fans who went there instead of our real site! And my wife made this worse by saying in concert "check out our site at www.steadyon.net- NOT DOT COM!" Of course, when you say it like that everyone remembers the last part, not the first part.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#254262 - 16/04/2005 03:47
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Have you thought of using steadyonband.com or steadyonmusic.com. I have seen bands do that when their band name has been taken already.
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Matt
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#254263 - 16/04/2005 05:01
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: JeffS]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 527
Loc: Oklahoma
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Looks like they want between 1000 and 10000....gimme a break! Let them have it...I mean, it's not all that great for anyone except your band, right? Just seems to me a shame that they can buy the domain for 9 bucks or so, and then sell it for a grand....sheesh....
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#254264 - 16/04/2005 05:45
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: Ladmo]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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We experienced something similar at work for an off shoot company once. They started at US$10000 each for two domains. They quickly dropped to $1000, then $100, then something silly like $25, without us really doing anything. We simply refused after the first price and they kept coming back with offers...
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#254265 - 16/04/2005 10:12
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Have you thought of using steadyonband.com or steadyonmusic.com. I have seen bands do that when their band name has been taken already.
Yeah, but I thought of that after we'd put the .net url on everything (including our cd insert). A .net address really isn't that bad anyway and it feels more natural than steadyonmusic, so I'm cool with keeping it that way (though there's not reason we can't buy steadyonmusic anyway). It's just kind of silly to me that these guys are wanting so much for .com when there's no way it's worth that to anyone, especially us.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#254266 - 16/04/2005 10:21
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: Ladmo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Looks like they want between 1000 and 10000....gimme a break! Let them have it...I mean, it's not all that great for anyone except your band, right? Just seems to me a shame that they can buy the domain for 9 bucks or so, and then sell it for a grand....sheesh....
Exactly. They are holding the url hostage. We're the only people who'd really want it and there's no way we're going to pay that so everyone loses. I really wish there were some kind of "legitimacy" application for urls to prevent squatters from doing stuff like this. Definitely an example of capitalism NOT working for the common good.
But I’m not too broken up about it. At least we’re not to the point of having to use something like steadyonthechristianbandfromsanantonio.biz!
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#254267 - 16/04/2005 17:10
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
some kind of "legitimacy" application for urls to prevent squatters from doing stuff like this
See, I thought there WAS some law for this. It legally entitled companies (and trademark/copyright holders?) to the domain of their company name. I heard it mentioned once back in the 1997 era when I first heard of domain squatting. Apparently, this law is how all the big companies got their domains back from the very first squatters. ... or something.
I'm inches away from trademarking my name, so maybe this supposed legalty could force the current registrant to give me the domain. (of course, the .org domain is held by a legitimate organization of the same name, so causing a ruckus about it may land a few trademark infringment lawsuits on my head.) Hm, I'd forgotten all about this hazy memory of a law until just now.
_________________________
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#254268 - 17/04/2005 05:25
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
It's just kind of silly to me that these guys are wanting so much for .com when there's no way it's worth that to anyone, especially us.
I agree that it is a pain in the arse when someone grabs a domain like this. I don't agree however that this domain isn't worth much to anyone.
I can easily see the phrase "steady on" being used in an advertising campain or as a product name at some point in the UK. At which point the domain would become fairly valuable to someone.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#254269 - 17/04/2005 09:46
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
I don't agree however that this domain isn't worth much to anyone.
To be exact, I didn't say it wasn't worth much- I said it wasn't worth $1,000-$10,000, though perhaps my language was a bit stronger than it should have been (instead of "now way" I should have said, "it's unlikely that"). And sure, for any large company with deep pockets I'm certain they could afford this (though I'd assume before naming a product or starting a campaign they'll look to make sure they can get the corresponding url at a reasonable price), but anyone with less capital is just not going to be able to justify the costs.
What’s frustrating is that when people do this is not just like buying a generic piece of prime real estate- it’s specific to a certain group of people or products. “Steady On” would be useful to Shawn Colvin, Point of Grace, my band, or maybe a handful of others (like you’ pointed out), but to most people it’s worthless.
Heh, if I ever have another band I’m just going to go with a made up word (and buy the url before I do).
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#254270 - 23/05/2005 22:53
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#254271 - 24/05/2005 00:33
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
I'm inches away from trademarking my name, so maybe this supposed legalty could force the current registrant to give me the domain. (of course, the .org domain is held by a legitimate organization of the same name, so causing a ruckus about it may land a few trademark infringment lawsuits on my head.) Hm, I'd forgotten all about this hazy memory of a law until just now.
I don't think it works like that. You can't just register a trademark and then go after a domain which is already in existence. If you registered the trademark first and they then came along later and tried to cybersquat then yes, you'd have a case otherwise no. If you were allowed to do it the other way then all hell would break loose as you could effectively hijack domains by just trademarking that particular phrase in your own country.
Judging whether they're properly using the domain or just squatting based on content is also a tricky subject.
You need to read the UDRP details first and then fork out money and time to get this resolved. At the end of the day, is it worth your time and money to file a suit against said company and then get ICANN involved?
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#254272 - 24/05/2005 00:37
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
What’s frustrating is that when people do this is not just like buying a generic piece of prime real estate- it’s specific to a certain group of people or products. “Steady On” would be useful to Shawn Colvin, Point of Grace, my band, or maybe a handful of others (like you’ pointed out), but to most people it’s worthless.
Usually the squatters aren't actually specifically targetting you. They just automatically submit registration requests for any domains that are expiring on the basis that somebody might want it in the future because somebody wanted it in the past. Unfortunately it still doesn't help get your domain.
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#254273 - 25/05/2005 00:46
Re: Buying a poached / spaminated domain
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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The UDRP was next on my list to read. But it hardly matters, since reading the Trademark Office site said it will take over a month for the trademark application to even consider going through. By that time, my site will be launched.
So, nevermind the legal stuff unless it gets ugly. Hopefully I can make an offer to purchase. Since there's next to nothing online tied to my company name, hopefully the seller will realize I'm a microscopic company. We'll see.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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