What's wrong with this picture?

Or rather, what is wrong with these people? As much as I detest Chimpy McCokesppon, I can not wrap my head around the idea of wearing flip flops to the white house. As a matter of fact, I can feel one of my parents slapping me upside the head for thinking of it.

And it's not just these women, it's everywhere. I've noticed over the years totally inappropriate dress in court (at 20 I was floored when some woman showeds up to court in a spagetti strap tank top and short shorts, and saw someone getting thrown out of the courthouse for similarly vulgar attire two years ago when I went to go answer those assault charges), people confused when being refused into restaurants in jeans and t-shirts (obviously jacket required places), wet haired flip flopped and bathing suit clad kids running through supermarkets no where near a beach or pool, cargo shorts at a wedding two weeks ago (no, it wasn't a casual affair), and I could write volumes on the slovenly appearance (and more appalling behavior) of american tourists in churches (some of the locals are almost as bad). I'm not asking for haute coture, but is it really that hard to brush your damn hair and take off the pj pants and wifebeater and put on some real clothes?

Maybe it's just me, and i'm sheltered and/or insane, but isn't proper attire for the occasion something you're taught as a child (i can remember several fights with mom as a small child about not being allowed to wear the goofy shirt and donald duck flip flops that I was obsessed with to church or restaurants), or did it get lost with all this I'm OK you're OK crap? Are ettiquette books being burned along side the Harry Potter books? Can someone please explain where this comes from? Because I'm really confused by the idea that not one, but at least 5 (who knows how many more in the back row, those are just the ones I can see) in a group of 34 decided that this was perfectly OK.

Well, it is just Dubya after all. I mean, if it weren't for the White House staff dressing him, he'd show up to work barefoot in a NASCAR t-shirt.

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Well, it is just Dubya after all. I mean, if it weren't for the White House staff dressing him, he'd show up to work barefoot in a NASCAR t-shirt.

I'd probably respect him more if he did. At least then you know what you're getting.

Edit: and why does he look like those sticks are holding him up?

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Well, it is just Dubya after all. I mean, if it weren't for the White House staff dressing him, he'd show up to work barefoot in a NASCAR t-shirt.

I doubt it. As good as his "I'm just a backwater hillfolk ignoramus and proud of it just like you" act is, he's not. Gotta respect Karl Rove for his marketing genius, love or hate the results. While he may have lived in Texas, he sure as hell was not educated there. Yokels do NOT get sent to Andover. (They do get into Yale sometimes, but under their own steam.) George is from Greenwich (the poor folks in town are merely rich, there's plenty of FU money in that town. The amount of power and money centered there is mindblowing. The local public high school has classes in philanthropy, because of the sheer percentage of kids there who will never have to work and will inherit enough that they can give piles of it away withoiut denting their lifestyle. Billionaires are not exactly uncommon there either, and there's only about 350 of those in the country.

Sure he does well to pander to the uneducated and proud of it (anyone else notice intellectual has become a dirty word like liberal?) segment of the population, just for the sheer head count, but he's not one of them. As soon as he gets back among his breathren, "my base" as he called them on his last visit there, he drops the hick act. Drops his beloved born again prattle too.

But the point is not that it's the Chimp in Chief, I'd find it unnacceptable no matter who was president. What I want to know is why so many people seem to think this (as well as the bad church attire, and the "whadda ya mean I can't wear sweatpants in your 4 star restaurant") is appropriate? It's not just in this instance. I've had to send receptionists home (and later would often wind up firing many of the same) to change, and I could not stop staring at some of the things I saw a bunch of new hires ( fresh out of college, same age group as these women) were wearing last time I stopped by mom's office(most definitely not a casual environment. The mentally handicapped guys who work in the mailroom have demonstated they can figure this out). And I was in jeans. WTF? I'm curios as to where the concept of "This is OK" comes from.

It's now a National Scandal...As opposed to a National Sandal.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/18/national/main709848.shtml

So this is the best distraction they can do for Rove?

Or maybe in this instance it just shows the lack or respect that the Pres. has earned?

Its not what you wear its who you are. I had to wear a tie when I started to work here 15 years ago. I don't now and welcome the change.

I'm glad the US is becoming a "casual work place." Clean and neat should be the only formal dress code.

And we sure don't want a few billion sweaty Chinese.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430784/

Maybe those girls are wearing the modern equivalent of what we used to call "comfortable shoes". It is the lacrosse team after all. I bet they also play golf and field hockey, if you get my drift. They probably play for both teams, if you know what I'm getting at.

...

I mean they're lesbians.

I love this quote from what is otherwise a pretty lousy movie:

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He said, good manners are just a way of showing other people we have respect for them. See, I didn't know that, I thought it was just a way of acting all superior.

I think too many people forget both of those things. That good manners are about respecting other people and that so many people think that it's just a way to be superior.

There are a lot of problems here. I have no problem with being comfortable, but there's no reason that those girls couldn't have been comfortable, yet display the decency required for that situation. (Personally, I wouldn't have show up, mostly for fear of being arrested for punching the President in the face.) And it's not the idiot in the suit that the respect is for; it's the office and the position. But those girls were more interested in themselves than in anything else, and that's an epidemic that spans the entirety of US culture these days, from showing up to a formal event in flip-flops, to talking on your cell phone while driving, to attacking other countries on a whim. There's no respect for others.

Now, I'm a bastard, and I don't give people many second chances, but until someone shows me that he's an idiot or a jerk, and even sometimes afterward, I try to show him the courtesy of doing things in a manner I would want them done in. I'm sure I fail too often, but I try, and I don't get the impression that that's a virtue that's at all striven for anymore.

I'll have to get my uncle, a writer and historian on men's fashion, to give me a quick write-up on this topic. I know I've heard him talk about it on several occasions.

I will say that I've been to the opera here at the Kennedy Center, and was pretty surprised to see shorts and short sleeves with sandals. It's not like I was in the old money crowd, so my girlfriend wasn't wearing her floor-length fur w/extravegant jewels and big hat, but I had a coat and tie on.

Would you say, Jim, that there are no situations that require attire above a certain level? Should we expect to start seeing tank tops at weddings...or funerals? I also agree that it's nice not to have to wear a tie to work, especially with the oppressive heat we're having here. My whole building has a very relaxed dress code. Heck, right now there's a guy who works across the hall and he's in shorts and sneakers. Sometimes I think how it's a shame you don't see as many suits any more, but then I think about how much I'd hate to be the one wearing them.

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Back in the 20s and 30s a man out in public who wasn't wearing a hat was considered unacceptable, and dare I say you've surely worn outfits to work that back then would have been looked upon with the same disdain you're currently showing. Style changes over time, and Western society has been drifting towards more comfort and less formal dress for a long time, and I see nothing wrong with that.

But it's not always a comfort issue (I will give you that in this particular instance). In this case, it's homogenous sloppiness. A lot of what I see is stuff that's just wrong. For example, the succubus (my friends ex) comes up to me with a suit he bought for a grad school interviews. It looked like something straight out of legally blonde. Complete with 4 inch metal heeled pink flower embellished mules (shoes I actually owned). She asked me what I thought, and I told her "It's fine, if you're not planning on being taken seriously." Well, of course this makes me a great big ol meanie for telling the truth (he commited the worse sin of agreeing with me). Mind you, this was not someone who had never seen appropriate dress for an occasion like that (not just mine, which being as I didn't know what an evil bitch she was at the time, I would have happily lent her something appropriate, again), but someone who full well knew the rules of the game and thought that multicolor pink fringe trim job says to someone at a place like Columbia "Yes, I will make a great doctor one day".
I've witnessed many other not anymore comfortable than proper clothes horror shows like ballcap indoors with shirt and tie, abercrombie t shirt showing through dress shirt, tevas, socks, and suit (sorry, had to point and openly laugh at that dude, but could almost understand it as he could have changed his shoes to commute, and forgot to put the other ones on), leather halter top at reception desk (it was 90 degrees and humid this morning, so not comfortable), and my favorite, the dumbass biller we formerly had at the VW dealership, who showed up on day in the matching tracksuit with juicy printed on the ass. Explained by "This cost $300, I don't see what's wrong with it" as Erin attempted kicking her ass out the door before anyone saw that crime against taste.

Sometimes it is a comfort issue (however I look at it as a sign of poor breeding, or having absolutely no respect for anyone including yourself, to show up in a shirt and tie place in sweats, on purpose, not by accident), but in cases like this, and things like wearing a skirt so short you bend over and the world's your gynecolgist to church, it's not a comfort issue. And it's mostly tied to my age and below. I'm really curious as to where the hell it comes from.

And who in the heck invented a tie (rhetorical question here, no Googling necessary). That has got to be the stupidest piece of clothing around today.

Try to explain a tie to an alien. "Its a piece of cloth we wear on our necks tied in a certain way... Its for...ummm... it aaa.... makes us feel pretty, I guess."

I'm really curious as to where the hell it comes from.

I think it comes from a couple attitudes "this is a free country I'll wear what I want and you can't stop me." Others like me just don't give a rats ass what people think.

I'll agree that this my be taken as a lack of respect to some but I'm not interested in impressing people that only care about how I'm dressed. If they can't see me through my cloths then they're superficial snobs not worthy of my time.

OK, after saying that I'm sure I'd show up to the White House in my best. Mainly so I wouldn't get kicked out.

They were initially intened to cover shirt buttons, which were seen as utilitarian and unattractive.

No googling necessary; pre-existing knowledge.

Kind of figured they were to hide those hideous buttons. God save us from button viewing

I'm pretty sure they also evolved from other things. I'll have to ask about that one too, I'm pretty sure my uncle wrote about that one.

Oh, sure. But the defining feature of a tie these days is the flap that hangs over the front of the torso, not the part that goes around your neck; after all, clip-on ties are still considered ties.

Oh, I'm not denying that. That's what they're for today, but I was thinking the question was more about how we got to the point where we wear this piece of fabric around our necks and down our fronts. It didn't just happen all of a sudden.

A local legend has it that neckties evolved from a kind of scarf (cravat?) worn by Croat mercenaries in 17th century or so. Wikipedia seems to confirm details of the legend, but not its accuracy.

Yes, you're right; it is a free country, and you don't have to care what anyone else thinks. But by the same token (and since I agree 100% with Heather), nobody should whine if they get refused service / have their employment terminated / or are looked down upon by others when they decide to not abide by the standards decided upon by a particular place of business / occupation / group of people.

As for myself, I generally dress quite casually. I'm rarely seen in anything other than a t-shirt (generally topped by a button-down shirt with the sleeves rolled up, if not a polo), nice jeans and my docs. But I'm a student. Even so, I'm generally much more appropriately dressed than most of the other students in my class.

If I go to a funeral, I wear a suit, as propriety demands. Likewise for court, or dinner at a nice restaurant. If I go for a job interview, I dress appropriate to the company. Personally, I would have fired the "Juicy" girl in Heather's story on the spot, no discussion. She's obviously not the kind of professional individual I would want working with my customers.

I have no problem with people trumpeting their "rights" in this country. But sadly, many of those same people become self-righteous when they have to deal with the consequences of their choice.

Out of curiosity, what is your thoughts on proper dress for things like shopping? At what point does the price of the object actually influence an upgrade in dress? For me, I was in a button up shirt, nice jeans, and decent walking shoes when I went to look at houses, and figured anything more would have gotten in the way of looking closly at details on a house.

Car shopping, the first one was in a t-shirt (tucked in) and jeans. Being mostly ignored at one dealership was one reason I went elsewhere, though the other part of that was likely my age at the time. Not too many places expect a 20 year old to be buying a new car.

As far as the white house issue, I'd also be dressed much nicer then the folks there, simply more as a sign of respect for what the office is. Just because Bush is there now doesn't degrade my respect for the other 40+ people who have held that office.

Agreed, unfortunately you have to play the game, walk the walk, or pay. I'm surely not one to "push buttons" just because its "my right." I'm wearing a long sleeve button down shirt with dress pants right now. AND ITS 90 OUTSIDE!

This topic ranks right in the middle of my "don't really care so much" list. Just making conversation. I wish we could all be comfortable slobs.

I had great fun in morning dress at my brother's wedding, but only I think because it was so unusual for me to be in formal clothing: I'd have felt the same if we were all dressed as pirates, or Mexicans. (And just like with pirates or Mexicans, the best bit about an usher's costume is the hat.)

But I think slobbery starts at home: I've long made it a goal never to make anyone else wear a suit, or feel uncomfortable about not wearing one. And so far I've succeeded, though I'm not yet married or dead, both of which are notorious danger areas for suit-wearing.

Actually I can't stop now thinking about the looks on my brother's in-laws' faces if we'd all turned up to the church dressed as pirates. That would have ruled.

Peter

I have never owned a suit. I wouldn't know where to buy one. I wouldn't know how to ask for one. Does that make me less prestigious than someone well-versed in that sort of thing?

I realize that isn't what this thread is focused on. I understand dressing up to go to a nice restaurant is considered a good thing, but I don't understand the logic behind it. Why is a suit considered proper attire to go sit and watch a fat lady sing in a language I don't understand? History. Past water doesn't turn the mill.

*shrug*

I grew up in Montana. Not much for fancy anything there.