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#263734 - 31/08/2005 19:07 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: g_attrill]
Attack
addict

Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 583
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Hmmmm... that's what people did when we had the fuel blockades here in 2001. All it did was run the pumps drier sooner than it would otherwise had done because all the fuel was in the vehicles than at the station.

eg. my aunt, who drives very little had 1/4 of a tank left (enough for a week or two) but she brimmed it the first morning and probably still had 7/8ths of it left at the end of the week, when people who needed the fuel couldn't get to work.

Gareth



Well, just from memory about board members talking about how long it takes for them to drive to work. I figured 1/2 if not more have a 20 minute or more drive to work and a 20 minute drive home. Anyone that drives only 100 miles a week wouldn't need to fillup but those that drive 250+ a week might want to.

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#263735 - 31/08/2005 19:19 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: JBjorgen]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5421
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
As of this morning we're up 32 cents/gallon and rising.


I'm just wondering what justification the gas stations here in Alaska will use when they raise their prices 30 cents a gallon.... All of our gasoline is refined locally from oil pumped out of the ground in Alaska some 4000 miles away from the Gulf Coast.

They don't raise prices because their expenses have gone up... they raise prices because they can!

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#263736 - 31/08/2005 19:48 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: tanstaafl.]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5628
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
All of our gasoline is refined locally from oil pumped out of the ground in Alaska some 4000 miles away from the Gulf Coast.


But because the Gulf Coast isn't producing any oil, some of your oil will be sent there to meet demand. This'll raise the price of your oil, too. Brent Crude also went up in price, despite the North Sea also being about 4000 miles away from the Gulf of Mexico.

According to the BBC, the price of crude has dropped slightly, but local availability might have more effect on the price.
_________________________
-- roger

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#263737 - 31/08/2005 20:07 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Roger]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Our prices rose DRAMATICALLY today. I fueled up at 2.79 this morning anticipating the prices going up and I'm glad I did. On the way home premium gas was up to 3.39 (though the mid grade, which I use, was only up to 3.29). One gas station across the street from where I live didn't get the memo, obviously, and was still offering mid grade at a paltry 2.89. They had cars lined up like you wouldn't believe.

Apparently two fuel lines into Atlanta went down and everyone is panicking. I heard crazy rumors at work, including one that the city was going to prohibit gas sales during the weekend. Don't know where that idea came from. I've also heard (but haven't verified) that some stations have run out of gas.

I just read this article and really liked what the governor of GA had to say (though I don't know anything about him having just moved here):

Quote:
He acknowledged that while higher gas prices are an inconvenience, Georgians should keep in mind the massive humanitarian disaster in Lousiana and Mississipi where thousands of people may be dead.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#263738 - 31/08/2005 20:36 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: JBjorgen]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
What I love is the Bush said nothing for the first two days, allowing doubt and fear about oil prices to spread throughout the entire US. Then, once the oil companies have had a chance to raise pricies, they announce they're going to release oil from the strategic oil reserve. This means the oil companies will have plenty of very expensive gas to sell us. So much could have been avoided by a simple statement ASAP that they'd release as much crude oil was necessary to maintain an adequate supply while it was able to without compromising Homeland Security.

Matthew

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#263739 - 31/08/2005 20:44 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: matthew_k]
g_attrill
old hand

Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
I was expecting Bush to declare war against Mother Nature....

Anyway, to make you feel a tiny bit better here is one of my many recent petrol receipts...

edit: 90.9p/L = about $6.15 per gallon in US gallons

Gareth


Attachments
263812-receipt.jpg (213 downloads)


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#263740 - 31/08/2005 21:18 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: g_attrill]
Phil.
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2482
90? Pah I filled up at 93p today

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#263741 - 31/08/2005 21:25 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: g_attrill]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
It is important to note that it's a shorter route between Inverness and Dover than it is between Miami and Pensacola, and that's just Florida.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#263742 - 31/08/2005 21:56 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: matthew_k]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
What I love is the Bush said nothing for the first two days, allowing doubt and fear about oil prices to spread throughout the entire US. Then, once the oil companies have had a chance to raise pricies, they announce they're going to release oil from the strategic oil reserve. This means the oil companies will have plenty of very expensive gas to sell us. So much could have been avoided by a simple statement ASAP that they'd release as much crude oil was necessary to maintain an adequate supply while it was able to without compromising Homeland Security.

Matthew

Looks like he's serving his master well.
Load this into your RAM- Bush is a puppet manipulated by the oil industry.
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#263743 - 31/08/2005 23:10 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Robotic]
Gallagher419
journeyman

Registered: 14/12/2004
Posts: 95
What I'd like to know is is where is the International help at a time like this? The U.S. sends all kinds of aid to other parts of the world when disaster strikes yet I haven't heard one word of anyother country/nation offering any help! What gives?

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#263744 - 31/08/2005 23:26 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Gallagher419]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Well, it has a lot to do with the US being the richest nation in the world... I don't give money to support Bill Gates' family either.
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#263745 - 31/08/2005 23:36 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Ezekiel]
phi144
enthusiast

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
In my view, It's the thought that counts.
_________________________
Doug

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#263746 - 01/09/2005 00:48 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: phi144]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
True, and a quick look at google news shows many articles from across the world reporting on the disaster (although no mention in Al Jazeera, strangely). I'm sure that other countries have offered their sympathies, it's just not news in comparison to coverage from the disaster areas.

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#263747 - 01/09/2005 00:55 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Ezekiel]
phi144
enthusiast

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
You're right. A lot of the coverage at this point is pointing fingers as to the poorly executed rescue effort. At this point I think it's better to get people safe, fed, and housed (in some way) and worry about what was done wrong later.
_________________________
Doug

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#263748 - 01/09/2005 02:20 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: phi144]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
You're right. A lot of the coverage at this point is pointing fingers as to the poorly executed rescue effort. At this point I think it's better to get people safe, fed, and housed (in some way) and worry about what was done wrong later.


On the contrary, I think one of the media's most important functions is to point out to the readers, listeners, and viewers when crappy things are happening, to draw attention to them, and thus motivate the decision-makers to get off their duffs and do something about it. The media themselves can't help directly, except for lending a satellite phone here or a kiss and a hug there. So, if they're going to be there, they might as well call attention to the things that need attention.

For instance, tonight on CNN, the head of FEMA was being asked some tough questions about why the rescue/relief effort has been so slow in getting started. During the interview, he basically admitted that what was happening was unacceptable, and that they were going to need to speed things up, even if they take some more risks than they seemed to want to take.

The federal agencies have obviously been trying to hide behind the logic that they needed to plan things out first, make sure resources are distributed properly, etc., but it just doesn't wash. The people down there are in desperate need of food and water *NOW*, and it doesn't take much to throw some supplies on a plane and drop them down there. If we can scramble F-16s within two minutes if planes are heading for the White House, it's just not acceptable for this situation to go on for more than two days and not have more of a federal presence in the relief efforts.

Yes, I know this is a HUGE expanse of geography that's affected. Yes, I know that the storm's path changed, and that there were questions about how bad it was going to be, and that a lot of those in trouble now were people who didn't evacuate, or got caught at the last minute. But these are the things our government is supposed to plan for. Even if they didn't plan for it, it doesn't take much leadership from the top (and I mean the very top) to say "get some food and water on some big-ass planes and drop the s**t down there."

Katrina's aftermath has all the makings of a humanitarian crisis in our own country, and it didn't have to be this bad. WIth better leadership, we could have at least the beginnings of a handle on the situation now. I just hope that in a time when there's zero accountability in the federal branch, someone finally has to answer for their failure to do their job.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263749 - 01/09/2005 02:22 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: phi144]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Do you really expect a poor country in Africa who we'd offer aid to, or the Philippines for that matter, to offer the richest country in the world aid? It doesn't make sense. We give so much because we can and should. The rich give to the poor, and we are the rich. Who would you expect aid from, just out of curiosity?

That said, that question was asked many times on CNN today, and it was said that there were offers, including from France.

They are already asking the questions about what went wrong way too much on the news. I can't wait 'til this gets politicized... ugh. It's too soon to ask those questions, they are still rescuing people man. The focus shouldn't be on those questions YET.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#263750 - 01/09/2005 02:43 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
The focus shouldn't be on those questions YET.


"The focus" is obviously on saving as many survivors as possible, evacuating the areas that need to be evacuated, controlling the public health crisis, etc. But, the media can do none of those things directly. The media, at least what I've been watching, has been doing a great job of showing images of Coast Guard rescues, doctors and nurses working at makeshift hospitals with almost no supplies, neighbors banding together to help each other out, and other things that are all newsworthy.

However, while they're covering those stories, they're starting to notice that, for as bad as this disaster is, a country with America's resources should not be in this much disarray in responding to it. As they include those angles in their reporting, the picture becomes clearer to the decision-makers that more serious steps need to be taken. If the media weren't there to report what's happening and ask the "why isn't this more organized?" type questions, then the situation might be even worse.

Believe me, I don't love the media by any stretch, but they're the only eyes and ears we have now, and the more they bark, the more is done to save lives. That works for me.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263751 - 01/09/2005 04:16 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: tonyc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
a country with America's resources should not be in this much disarray in responding to it.


Exactly. Especially to something where we knew 24 hours ahead of time that this is one of the worst hurricanes to hit the US ever. I guess people just expected it to magically disappear once it hit land, and do no damage. To have such a sloppy response when we knew it was coming just seems odd.

Even if it had somehow turned at the last minute and spared New Orleans the brunt of the storm, it was still very possible to foresee massive humanitarian needs somewhere along that coast line.
_________________________
Tom

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#263752 - 01/09/2005 06:57 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Phil.]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
93p, that's nothing - I've been filling up over 96p for a couple of months, and today, 99p a litre. Now, my car can get me 37mpg, but realistically, in order to make the most use of the fun PPP, I use WOT whenever accelerating, and that can bring mileage down to around 9mpg.

Plus, looks like the usage has killed my clutch. It has lasted 25 thousand miles longer than expected, but it's now slipping in 5th if I accelerate hard at motorway speeds.

</threadjack>
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock

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#263753 - 01/09/2005 07:53 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: frog51]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5824
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:
93p, that's nothing - I've been filling up over 96p for a couple of months, and today, 99p a litre.


Pah !

I filled up with 99.9p a litre Optimax the other day...

Can a Scooby really manage 37mpg ? Mine typically does 27mpg with 80% motorway miles (or 20 with two mountain bikes on the roof).
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#263754 - 01/09/2005 09:16 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1094
Loc: UK
Well, President Chavez of Venezuela has offered aid and fuel after the hurricane, which shows a certain amount of style.

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#263755 - 01/09/2005 10:41 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
phi144
enthusiast

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
I don't expect anything from anyone. Like I said it's the thought. I guess you may be reading more into this than needs to be. I fully understand your point, although an extreme one at that. No, I don't expect anything from African countries or any where else for that matter. The gesture would be nice. Maybe I'll phrase it this way, a show of concern.

You're right about us providing aid to others because we can/should. I'm not really saying "We do it for them, where's our share?"

Also, I agree with tonyc. Reporting the problem areas and what can be done now to help is a good thing, it needs to be done, but its already gone way beyond that. Not every news station, but some. I also agree that this should have been organized better, there is no excuse to the lack of supplies in the area and getting people out. Overall the media has done well at reporting success stories and communicating areas that need help “NOW”, however there are those stations that are already placing blame. I guess we should expect that unfortunately.


Edited by phi144 (01/09/2005 10:44)
_________________________
Doug

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#263756 - 01/09/2005 10:43 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: pca]
phi144
enthusiast

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
"Style", I like that.
_________________________
Doug

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#263757 - 01/09/2005 10:53 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: pca]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3548
Loc: Columbus, OH
I can't seem to get this song out of my head.
_________________________
~ John

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#263758 - 01/09/2005 13:10 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Ezekiel]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14189
Loc: Canada
Quote:
(although no mention in Al Jazeera, strangely).


That could have a bit to do with the EVEN LARGER human disaster in the Arab world the other day. You know, the one that killed over a thousand people.

-ml

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#263759 - 01/09/2005 14:30 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Gallagher419]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
Actually, there have been offers from all over. The U.S. has been turning them all down. Just because you haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB

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#263760 - 01/09/2005 14:41 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ninti]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Actually, there have been offers from all over. The U.S. has been turning them all down. Just because you haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.


Here's one of the more frustrating examples of this situation.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263761 - 01/09/2005 14:42 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: mlord]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Mark,
Agreed, but that little fact didn't fit into my editorial snipe very well and I didn't want to thread-jack with that horror and throw this thread into a 'which disaster is worse' argument.

However, the can is open, so I'll put in my $0.02 and have it done. Both events are horrific tragedies. I don't think there's anything meaningful to be gained by comparing/contrasting the two events. Time will tell the long term effects of both.

That said, I still think Al Jazeera's lack of any mention of the storm & its victims makes a better statement of how their editorial staff feels about the value of human life than anything I can say.

TonyC & Ninti-
Quote:

Quote:
Actually, there have been offers from all over. The U.S. has been turning them all down. Just because you haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.



Here's one of the more frustrating examples of this situation.

Amen.
-Zeke


Edited by Ezekiel (01/09/2005 14:44)

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#263762 - 01/09/2005 14:55 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Ezekiel]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4155
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
although no mention in Al Jazeera, strangely

Well, they're only running AP feeds of it, but they do appear to have been covering the story since Monday. It's just that Google News don't seem to syndicate Al Jazeera.

Peter

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#263763 - 01/09/2005 15:43 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: peter]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3980
Loc: Manchester UK
The footage I've just watched about New Orleans on the news is unbelievable, they had a clip of a policeman who just lost it and burst into tears. What I've seen reminds me of Threads and that was about WW3. Bush seems to have really dropped a bollock on this one.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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