Greetings!

Was I sleeping and miss the launch? I just checked out the sites, and found interesting data on the RioCar. Including a 60MB model... Hmm... I wonder if it is time to upgrade???

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Cute, they've linked a photo of the remote control prototype, with Hugo's Stun/Kill button.

http://store.s3.com/v2.0-img/operations/diamulti/site/images/Rio_Car_Remote_RGB.jpg

___________
Tony Fabris

Oh, and you'll notice that if you go to place an order, it says "Out of stock".

___________
Tony Fabris

Greetings!

I saw the image, but missed the stun/kill option!!! Nice!!!

Pity the unit is out of stock at the moment, and there are no accessories to be had in the store. Rob, does this mean we can order the new remotes???

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

I saw the image, but missed the stun/kill option!!! Nice!!!

That was just on the prototype, mind you, production remotes won't have that. It was just a little joke Hugo threw in during preproduction.

___________
Tony Fabris

That was just on the prototype, mind you, production remotes won't have that.

Pity. That really should be there on the final.

I also noticed a June 2001 date for the tuner. (No, I am not going to rehash that...)

No pricing data for the other size drives. Is the site just being loaded now? Maybe all of the detail (multiple color choices, disk capacities, etc.) are on their way up?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Additional: OK, some of the information is there, but very few photos. Very little pricing data. The empeg site has much more information on it. I hope they expand this out a bit.

Edited by pgrzelak on 26/02/01 07:37 PM.

I think it's also time for the software 1.1 release, isn't it? Now, if the player is available from the rio site the new software can't be far away! :-)

Greetings!

Especially when on the empeg site, the beta software area from the support page has been emptied... It used to hold the 1.02 betas. Perhaps timed with the launch of the Rio/SB site, but...

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

As seen on the RioCar shopping page...

Rio Car Audio Contents
{snip}
* CD-ROM with necessary software
* The latest Al Green music composition album including "Let's get it on in my car baby!"

Al Green? {chuckle}

----- - ---- - --- - -- -- - - - - - - - - -
greggerm 09000991

Haha I love how we're reverse-engineering release dates based on all this evidence that's mysteriously appearing. I hope it's true because I am drooling with anticipation for the 1.1 release. And also drooling over the prospect of 30GB drive availability.

-Tony
MkII #554

The site shows 10, 20, 30, and 60GB models, and 12GB for sale now. I'm guessing empeg has lots of blue 12GB ones laying around, and thats whats being sold now, with the future 10/20/30/60 to be sold soon.

The question will be what ones have 1 drive and what has 2.

This release was also picked up by News.com -- it's linked from their homepage as I write this:

"Rio parks digital audio in cars"

______________
Empeg Mk. 2 #626, 18Gb blue | Kenwood KMD-X92. 2000 VW Passat wagon.

This release was also picked up by News.com

Ah. I was wondering how my friend had heard about it. His voicemail message seemed rather excited... "Dude, it comes with a 60 gigabyte hard drive!".

Yawn.

___________
Tony Fabris

I just heard this same snippet "from the same folks that brought you the Rio Player....comes with 60GB hard drive" on CNN Headline News while lanking here in my hotel room. Maybe that's where he got it. Good place for the press release to land - CCNHN only repeats like every 4.5 minutes!

Jim

Yeah, it would be nice press... if they had players to ship.

___________
Tony Fabris

All Rio players are Issue 9 (Mk.2A) units fresh off the production line. There is an initial batch of 12GB units because the sourcing worked out that way, but the line will then stabilise at 10, 20, 30 and 60. We go up to 30GB with a single drive.

Rob

Rio Car Players are in the US right now, it shouldn't take long to get them to the estore. It looks like the Rio marketing machine is already pressing ahead full steam on this one - they have some nice events lined up.

It took a while, but it looks like we're finally going to get a good number of these things out into the world

Rob

1.1 has already been released to the Alpha team, who have come up with a few dozen bugs to keep us occupied over the next couple of weeks Once everything is stable we'll put out a public beta.

We'll also have 1.1-Alpha at the Woodside meet to preview the new features.

Rob

There's not much point keeping the beta's when the consumer release has been out and stable for a few months.

Rob

Greetings!

Does this mean that there will be a liquidation sale of Empeg branded players??? Just kidding...

One thought, though. I really like the stun/kill option on the remote. I know that it was only on the prototype, but if those would be available (even the one or two auctioned off to the highest bidder), I think there might be a market for them.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

There were only six Stun/Kill remotes and they're spoken for

Rob

The new remotes are all packaged with new players, however we have several hundred "extras" on order in anticipation of owners wishing to upgrade. They should be in stock within a couple of weeks.

Rob

Oh, cool! So when you say "hot off the production line"... where are these being manufactured? Same old place, or somewhere in the US?

And another follow-up question...

Are these shipping with 1.02? I didn't think 1.02 was completely rio-branded yet. Do they just not care as long as the splash screen says Rio?

___________
Tony Fabris

Woah... I just received my 40GB Empeg today (got held up in customs). Talk about bad timing, it looks like the 60GB Rio version would only be $50 more according to News.com. : (

I guess now I just have to hope for decent upgrade pricing... hint...hint...

-James

So.... if I buy an empeg, and let's say Rio comes out wiht a big software update or something important that I want, can I just download it onto the empeg... are there any differences between the two units that would prevent me from installing any functionality or anything of the rio in the future? Any reasons to get a Rio Car over the empeg?

if I buy an empeg, and let's say Rio comes out wiht a big software update or something important that I want, can I just download it onto the empeg

Yes, the Rio Car and the Empeg are essentially the same hardware, there are no differences as far as the software is concerned. There will only be one software update which works for both products. The Rio car will have more RAM and some minor changes to the supporting circuitry, but nothing that will affect the way the software is installed.

There is a separate download for the Empeg Mark 1, but that's the original (old) version of the Empeg, and it's unrelated to the Rio Car. The Empeg Mark 2 and the Rio Car are the same thing.

In fact, software-wise, the only thing that differentiates the two products is four bytes of flash RAM in the custom bootup logo area, and you can change those bytes with my logo editor, swapping the Rio logo and the Empeg logo back and forth at will.

Your question is a very good one, and since the Rio announcement, I expect a lot more people will be asking it. I'm going to write up a FAQ entry on this subject, even though you're the first to ask it.

___________
Tony Fabris

Well, how about PC software?

I suppose there's no chance of an 'empeg' branded remote? Not that it matters, I've been using a Kenwood branded one for about a year and a half!!

Geoff
---- -------
Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...

It's all the same, it's the same product and the same company. The only reason there are empeg branded players still on sale is because we have a few left, and some people don't want to wait. Once the Rio store starts shipping we'll take our stock offline.

Rob

In reply to:

---

The only reason there are empeg branded players still on sale is because we have a few left, and some people don't want to wait.

---

...Sorta like me. I know its kinda lame, but I wanted to be sure I got myself an "Empeg" and not a "Rio Car". Even though they are the same exact hardware, I just wanted to be in on an "original" product. Looks as though I got in just under the wire!

Keep up the great work...
-gg

(BTW - My installation on Saturday went quite well. The Empeg sounds great in the car!)

----- - ---- - --- - -- -- - - - - - - - - -
greggerm 09000991

Same exact hardware except for the extra RAM in the Rio model...

-Tony
MkII #554

Same exact hardware except for the extra RAM in the Rio model...

Well, I'm sure there are some other minor changes, but nothing that would affect functionality in any noticeable way.

I'd actually be curious to know what all those other minor changes are between the Empeg and the Rio. For instance, has the "negative spike" problem been corrected? Have the AC power connectors been changed so that they don't run the risk of the intermittent home/car sense failure? Things like that.

___________
Tony Fabris

Well, how about PC software?

The PC software is the same for all models, even the Mark 1. I'll go add that to the FAQ.

___________
Tony Fabris

Wondering if it is possible to 'piggyback' some extra ram into a MKI???


TommyE

The mk1 can have 16mb, yes - there are pads for another 4 ram chips on the bottom of the board. Never tested, and you'll have to hack the kernel, but the pads are there ;)

Hugo

Ok, I'm officially confused now. I need a score card on this ram thing.

Rio Car (Mk2a?) has more ram than a Mk 1.
Mk 1 has empty pads where a "Real Hacker" could add ram.
.......(been there, done that, on early computers I've owned)
Rio Car and Empeg Mk 2 are essentially the same player with minor diff's.
.......Is one of those diff's the amount of ram in the player?
...........If so are there empty pads in a Mk2 also?

Glenn

PS. How do I make lines indent like an outline. This dang thing keeps eating my leading spaces.

Rio Car and Empeg Mk 2 are essentially the same player with minor diff's. Is one of those diff's the amount of ram in the player?


Yes.

Mark1 < Mark2 < Rio Car

The wheels of progress roll on.

If so are there empty pads in a Mk2 also?

I don't know. But even if there were, why would you care? All three products function just fine as-is with the amount of RAM they've got. The extra RAM won't make them do anything new, and then it wouldn't do any good without a hacked kernel anyway.

Okay, they'd cache a bit more. But they all do a really good job of keeping the disks spun down anyway.

___________
Tony Fabris

I've never met a computer that didn't, at some point, benefit from more ram. Arguably the empeg shouldn't be one such, it being primarily intended to run a single application.

However there is an open OS running on it and the feature creep has a tendency to steal ram whenever possible. Look at the many blue sky ideas already expressed on this bbs, if even a few of them make it out of the hothouse, being able to add more memory could look like a good idea.

Glenn

Absolutely. More RAM = more goodies and more efficient caching. Despite that, I think I'll hold off on an upgrade to the RioCar, and instead wait for a more significant revision (MkIII)

-Tony
MkII #554

http://nerp.net/~ben/pix/empeg/101-0178_IMG.JPG

as you can see in that image.. there is no room for more ram chips.. unless there are pads on the underside of the board.. but i don't remember the empeg board being double sided. :(


12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

Edited by SuperQ on 28/02/01 07:14 PM.

Interesting. I doubt it's double sided too.

(By the way, take the caps out of his link and it will work)

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

yea.. oops.. sorry.. i renamed all the files about an hour after i posted that link.. :(

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

That image is from the Mark II boards, and there is no extra pads for memory. The Mark I boards did have the necessary pads on the bottom to double it's normal 8mb of memory to 16. The Rio-car boards are using higher density ram if I remember right, thus having 16mb of ram.

I was just verifying for tfabris that it was true that the II had no more room for ram space.

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

It is basically impossible to make a motherboard that is not multi layered. As in more than two. It is true that there are no parts on the underside but there are definitely traces there.

See here.


Brian

-See my empeg here-

I believe it's 6-layer. There's a cute place somewhere on the board were you can read each layer number through the fibreglass if you hold it up to the light (Patrick was showing off).

Rob

oh goody, hardware has already started to kick up ..blah

As far as board houses are concerned "double sided" means there are components on both sides. Only the simplest and cheapest of boards are 2-layer, or the top and bottom surface are the only metal layers. Typically boards have 2 plane layers (power and gnd) usually towards the center or edges to balance the copper content, and then around 2-10+ routing layers depending on the density of the nets. Of course there are a number of different stack-up possibilities.

I'm impressed the empeg card is only 6 layers. To me, it looks like it'd be at least an 8, must have been a skilled place and route guy that doesn't like to waste layers :)

#080000512 green 12GB

Patrick (pca) routed the board.

Rob

Do you have any photos of the board (no components) so we can see the routes without voiding warranty?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

I wonder how much I could get for one on ebay....

--
David
// I'm probably not speaking on behalf of empeg/SONICblue here...

Erm, I don't think so. Most people find it more interesting with components - you must be a real PCB enthusiast

Rob

Not specifically PCB, but I always enjoy seeing the steps that are used (raw materials, parts, manufacturing) to create "stuff", especially "stuff" I use every day. Things like seeing how CD-R media is made. That kind of thing.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

I assume you've browsed the empeg geek site then?

Rob

Many many times!!!

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Well... it was mostly autorouted, but patrick did the placement, tidyups, and special bits (like the PSU which is layout critical)

Hugo

Thanks for the link, Tony. I didn't see it from the Rio site. In fact, I didn't see near enough information on the Rio site to pry >>$1000 from the hands of someone who hasn't already been seduced by the empeg site. There are hard drive mp3 players out there for as little as $500! Imho, Rio needs to put a lot more into their website to realize the market penetration that the car player deserves. Items of note would be:

-> Manual in PDF
-> Mention of Visuals, Hierarchical Playlists, etc.
-> Mention of the bomb-proof design beyond "skip free"
-> Mention of Linux/Open Source
-> Mention of Ethernet, TCP/IP
-> Mention of this site

I was driven nearly(?) insane waiting for my number to reach the top of the queue. I don't see the Rio site inspiring that level of devotion.



-jim <MkII:080000260 18G blue>

Agreed, especially because Empeg was far ahead of the competition and now the competition, although not in the same ballpark, is at least in the parking lot. Rio needs to make some things happen with the Rio car, and fast, or some of these other inferior but cheaper products are going to dominate the market.

-Tony
MkII #554

The empeg site will shortly be rebranded as a Rio Car site, and include the same level of detail that you were used to. It will be linked from the Rio site.

Rio also plan to add more content to the main site, following feedback at the Woodside meet.

Rob

The Rio Car player, in common with its predecessor, is aimed at the quality end of the market. If by "dominate the market" you mean ship the most volume, competing products will certainly achieve this in comparison with the current Rio Car model. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.

Rob

Greetings!

I am really hoping that this is my local corporate firewall or cache server, but...

It looks like someone with FrontPage managed to break all of the image links on the Rio Car web site!!! Reading the html source, images are pointing to file://///206.156.108.181/rio/gfx/products/Car/filename. Could someone official at empeg yell at these people! Thanks.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Yup, somebody broke some links. Bad webmaster, bad! Go to your room!

___________
Tony Fabris

Wow! I havn't seen that mistake in a long time! Ouch! Musta been out late last night!

12gig Mk. II BLUE
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

Are there plans for an upgrade path to 20, 30 and 60 GB EMPEGs for existing users. I have a 12 GB player and I quickly ran out of space!

If so, do you have any ideas on when this would go into effect adn hints as to terms?

pete

Yes, you can simply send your player in to Empeg and they will upgrade your hard disks. You might want to check the FAQ forum on this BBS for more information.

___________
Tony Fabris

Tony, empeg's and Rio's web sites don't offer much information on how to do this...

32GB (JUST UPGRADED!) Mk. II BLUE
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

Tony, empeg's and Rio's web sites don't offer much information on how to do this...

Only because the accessory store is temporarily closed. Rob...?

___________
Tony Fabris

I checked the FAQ, the store and wrote customer service before I posted... I was hoping for some specific inside info. I guess I will try calling RIO customer service. (Don't know why I didn't try that first!)

Yes there will be upgrades - getting the accessory range onto the store is a priority at the moment. It'll be a lot cheaper to get your own drive and upgrade yourself, though, because the unit has to be shipped to the UK (where all Rio Car servicing is currently carried out). Check out Tony's FAQ on the subject.

Rob