#2746 - 07/05/2000 11:49
Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
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journeyman
Registered: 21/09/1999
Posts: 71
Loc: Denmark
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#00182, 10GB, Amber, Denmark, Peugeot 206, Rebuilding my stereo - great things to come
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#2747 - 07/05/2000 12:31
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Yonzie]
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member
Registered: 24/06/1999
Posts: 118
Loc: Chile
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Nice, but... Think first. To mimic even the lightest of the empegs available (I mean the new 4 gb base model), this thing should have some kind of CD-rom changer in the trunk for at least 6 discs. And it wouldn't be the same, you know. Don't even think of the 36 gb model... a 55 disc changer, anyone? :-)
_________________________
[orange] Reggie [/orange] - 030102316 - First EMPEG in Latin America (right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)
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#2748 - 07/05/2000 13:04
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Yonzie]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Yeah, it's not the only one, either. There are several hitting the market this year. They're simply adding MP3 playback to standard car stereos. Either via memory cards (ala Rockford Fosgate) or via burned CD-R's (like the Aiwa model, as well as the Kenwood unit mentioned on the cover of the latest Crutchfield catalog). Nifty devices, but not in the same class as the Empeg. The whole idea of the Empeg is that you don't have to bring a pile of media with you- your whole CD collection is contained in the Empeg, no switching disks, cards, or cartridges. What good is the ability to play burned MP3s on your in-dash unit if you have to switch disks anyway? Tony FabrisEmpeg #144
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#2749 - 07/05/2000 13:34
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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What good is the ability to play burned MP3s on your in-dash unit if you have to switch disks anyway?
...It's a good solution for those that can't afford the empeg's price tag though... It's alot better to have 10 cd's on one cd-r, then 1 audio cd...
-mark
...proud to have one of the first Mark I units
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#2750 - 07/05/2000 21:59
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Reggie]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/09/1999
Posts: 364
Loc: Brooklyn
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actually , if the average mp3 is 4 megs.. 4GB holds 1000 songs. Which if the average CD is 14 tracks. That is 71 Redbook audio format CD's Even cd burned with mp3s holds roughly 162 songs if your burning is spot on. That's about 6 cd. They do have fast burning machines , but the process still craps out. You still dont have any control what order you play it in other than random or linear. Lets face it.. Firmware is in. You can't upgrade these things in terms of storage or compatibility with new formats or features. It's a lot of the intangibles that make the Empeg rock over any other product out. In terms of comparing CD based mp3 players. It for a different market. My cousin would love that as his first step. For me , i already divorced myself from CD's a while back. So to go back to lugging CD's around would be a pain. Keeping a copy down in the car and in the house was a big pain. CD's get scratched and they tend to skip when u hit a good bump. My Empeg doesn't do that. I like to revisit the old arguments , but for me , CD has been dead for 2 years now. Empeg Kicks Ass S/N 00203 http://www.iretro.com
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#2751 - 08/05/2000 05:41
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
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There's other reasons why the empeg does it better than a MP3-CD player apart from storage.
One word: Playlists.
One word: Visualisers.
Even though you can buffer the MP3 file, CDs still skip and you could still lose playback.
The empeg can become an ordinary home stereo input. Try doing that with another unit.
If a thief steals your CD player, e's got your CD - this may just give him more music this way. The empeg gives him little more than a black box.
One word: Upgradeability.
I'm sure there are more.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550
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#2752 - 08/05/2000 07:09
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 22/07/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: Florida
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I agree with Tony in that the Empeg is in a completely different class than most other MP3 players hitting the market this year, but at the same time, its not that different to the average consumer. My view of the average ICE consumer really likes the concept of MP3 audio, believes it to be of less quality, but thinks it might be worth the upgrade anyway (10 albums on a CD? Cool!) I'm really glad the Empeg is not in this class of player. Compressed Digital Audio will be big in the audio (car & home) markets of the next couple of years, and while I'm glad that means Empeg Ltd. will be doing great business (touch, errr, knock on wood), it also means that there will be a lot of devices that the "average consumer" thinks are in the same class. That, coupled with the price difference, will mean that the Empeg player will remain the high-quality leader in quality of playback, upgradability, customer support, and everything else that's already been said on this thread. Bring on the "competition", because we all know that right now, there really isn't any.
Kudos again to Empeg Ltd. for jumping in so early in the market with a top-notch product!
_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."
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_~= Dearing =~_
Gettin' back into it thanks to slimrio!
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#2753 - 08/05/2000 07:37
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Yonzie]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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> If you all haven't seen this, you should... Car radio that
> reads CD-ROM's w/MP3 files on 'em. Reportedly, it's $299
That may be, but does it run Linux? ;)
Remember, empeg car isn't just an MP3 Player.... it's a computer! :D I've read a few stories on these boards about what people wann try with it. Who knows what you can do? Try doing all these cool things with the competition hehe
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#2754 - 08/05/2000 13:21
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Dearing]
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journeyman
Registered: 21/09/1999
Posts: 71
Loc: Denmark
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What dearing just posted was pretty much my thoughts before posting... There is a **long** way from $299 to $1199. What do you get? 10 times the storage, playlists and a better UI(we are talking *pure* music machine here). If you haven't experienced the difference, you don't really appeciate it... it's not so bad shuffling through 150 tracks... 1500 though... Anyway, I'm very aware of the empeg being not just a giant CD-changer but if my mom should choose, she'd choose the Aiwa in a blink... (Think about it, for a quarter the price you get just about the same, it can hold her entire collection on ~two CD's, so she won't have to change very often(wouldn't matter anyway: she got her electric windows changed for the manual type cuz she wanted to be able to open them w/the ignition off...)) What a deal!
_________________________
#00182, 10GB, Amber, Denmark, Peugeot 206, Rebuilding my stereo - great things to come
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#2755 - 08/05/2000 14:24
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Yonzie]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The empeg car player is not, and never will be, aimed at the "average consumer". The average consumer does not spent $1200+ on a car stereo (not to mention the amps and drivers) and the margin on this product provides no room for movement on the price - even if we made a much greater volume.
We have stated that the car player is a high end example of our technology - primarily of our software technology, which scales to a wide range of related applications. I doubt empeg will ever market a sub $500 digital audio product, but that doesn't mean we don't develop them for other people to badge and sell!
This is good news for the car player product. The high end, no shortcuts design need not be compromised to accommodate the mass market, so those of us that want a really cool car stereo with bells and whistles are well catered for.
Rob
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#2756 - 08/05/2000 20:48
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Kureg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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This is my main point when people try to compaire the empeg to other peoducts. Heres a clip from one of my last slashdot.org posts about this: The empeg is an in car computer. It just happens to play MP3's very well. It runs Linux. It's only competetor runs WinCE. (And can't play MP3's yet since it's so underpowered). Soon, my empeg Mark II equipped car will be pumping out over 200 hours of music, tell me what exit to get off on, checking the traffic ahead, allow me to control it via voice, and be the server for an in car ethernet network. (GPS+CDPD modem support is under way right now).
Somehow I don't think a $300 10 hour MP3 player is going to compete directly with empeg that well.
My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/
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#2757 - 08/05/2000 21:35
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: drakino]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Soon, my empeg Mark II equipped car will be pumping out over 200 hours of music, tell me what exit to get off on, checking the traffic ahead
...A little off the subject, but is anyone working on a GPS project for this?
-mark
...proud to have one of the first Mark I units
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#2758 - 09/05/2000 00:01
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: dionysus]
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member
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 124
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www.mp3pump.de
quiet interesting. J.
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#2759 - 09/05/2000 01:30
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: dionysus]
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member
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 140
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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...A little off the subject, but is anyone working on a GPS project for this?I'm working on a empeg-GPS-Palm project. To put it simply, Palm shows a street-level map on it's 160x160x16grays screen while empeg gives other information by voice-overs. GPS receiver communicates to empeg via serial port and Palm talks to empeg via IrDA. Beat that with Aiwa  Kim
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#2760 - 09/05/2000 01:59
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: jfranke]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Wow, a 25Mhz 386 and a hardware MP3 decoder. That's useful *cough*
Rob
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#2761 - 09/05/2000 02:06
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: kim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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This sounds fantastic - if you'd like to have a chat about it, send me an email. You'll need some support for this to coexist nicely with the player software, but that shouldn't be a problem. Rob
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#2762 - 09/05/2000 07:03
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: rob]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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> Wow, a 25Mhz 386 and a hardware MP3 decoder. That's useful *cough*
And using DOS. How much more useful can you get? hehe
Some laughs of the old age:
FAT(16) - note the comment about 540MB hard drive max (2GB with disk manager software LOL!) Can you even get a 540MB hard drive anymore (let alone a 2GB)?
TSR - The player is a TSR (cuz of lack of multitasking of course). We get to go back to the age of programming using interrupts. * chuckles mildly to self *
Does this mean we have to go back to segment:offset style programming too?
My sides hurt...
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#2763 - 09/05/2000 14:17
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: kim]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Hi Kim,
I'd be very interested in what you are working on. Before you go too far with a seperate GPS, check out Rand McNally's Palm V solution...
- Jon
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#2764 - 09/05/2000 14:49
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: jbauer]
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member
Registered: 02/05/2000
Posts: 108
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Well, it's a nice looking little cradle-thing, but that's where I stop being impressed. It looks like you have to create the map on your computer and then download it to the Pilot. Presumably, this also means that it can't do dynamic rerouting, and it definitely couldn't handle spontaneous direction requests. And besides, it means that you'd only actually use it for long trips, and then you'd have to go through the process of mapping on the computer and bring it over...
I think that the power of using the empeg for this sort of thing is the use of its hard drive. You can load several hundred megs on it with no problem for street-level maps of a whole state, or several gigs for street-level of the whole US. The empeg would also be powerful enough (I think) to be able to handle the routing and all other processing.
I'm interested in attacking this too, but without the Palm. (I must admit, though, that it would be cool to have an optional Palm for showing a good-sized map -- but all the "smarts" should be in the empeg.) I've been looking around for the road data, and when my Mark2 comes (I deferred my order), I'll start playing around more seriously.
Alex
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#2765 - 10/05/2000 04:30
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: jbauer]
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member
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 140
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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I'd be very interested in what you are working on. Before you go too far with a seperate GPS, check out Rand McNally's Palm V solution...Attachments still does not work on this BBS - so I didn't quite get your point  Kim
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#2766 - 10/05/2000 10:06
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: kim]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Sorry about the attachment not working. I just attached a picture of the Rand McNally Pilot device. You can see it on the Rand McNally web page if you are interested, but I'd agree with Alexander... If all the processing and maps were on the Empeg, it would be much more powerful...
- Jon
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#2767 - 10/05/2000 19:15
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: jbauer]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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Erm.. enter the network connector! Why can't the maps be on HD or CD in a sealed box elsewhere in the car, all hooked up on the network. GPS, Navigation, Car security, the whole shebang in your car! You can configure your car from home via the airport. The possibilities are endless, like my bank balance. The point being is that there is enough communication from the Empeg that storing maps etc and eating into prescious music space is not necessary. ____________________________Murray
_________________________
--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#2768 - 11/05/2000 01:48
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: muzza]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I'm not sure I agree with that - the empeg is probably the best environment for a disk in your car. It provides excellent protection against shock, and can accommodate rather a lot of storage. At the moment the largest model is 36Gb but before the end of the year that should be 64Gb or greater (awaiting new drives from IBM).
Allocating a Gb or so for street maps seems like good value to me.
Rob
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#2769 - 11/05/2000 13:51
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: drakino]
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new poster
Registered: 11/05/2000
Posts: 2
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>Somehow I don't think a $300 10 hour MP3 player is going to compete directly >with empeg that well.
Really? Right now all EMPEG does is music, assuming you can even get one. All the other stuff you cite is vaporware. The only advantage Empeg car has at this moment is Geek Apeal and storage capactiy. Is that worth an extra $1000 to most people? I doubt it. Joe Blow doesn't care about Linux or any OS religious BS. They just want cool tunes and if a unit like the Aiwa can deliver 10X capacity then they'll dig it. If Aiwa or any other vendor delviers a MP3 enabled CD-Changer then even the capacity issue becomes somewhat moot.
I'm still waiting from my EMPEG unit. Someday maybe I'll be able to get one.
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#2770 - 11/05/2000 23:37
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: ianken]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Empeg may loose a few sales due to this player, but it's not going to be anything major. Most people who would even look at the empeg and the Aiwa player in the same light would turn the empeg down for price right away. But looking at the empeg for what it is reveals it never was in the same light. The empeg is in a class that has very few other competitors. Once the Mk. II ships and developers have some time with it alongside an API for the player, the empeg can safely be put into the CarPC category. I probably would have gone with a custom in car system if the empeg was just an MP3 player. But it can and will be so much more then that. If I were to put some time into it, I'm sure I could have a few of the features from the AutoPC from Clairon in the empeg. So yes, I stand by my point that a $300 MP3 and radio only player at 10 hours max will not directly compete with the empeg CarPC MP3+other future format player. Honestly, the true audio fan will see a player with 10x capacity of a CD, and one up to 800x, and turn the 10x one aside right away without any other features needing to be brought up.
My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/
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#2771 - 12/05/2000 13:28
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: drakino]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I disagree. I don't think empeg will be classified as a Car PC. In fact, if it does, it will probably be defeated quite soundly. At this stage, just because it IS in fact a computer, does not mean it functions as one out of the box in consumer form. The AutoPC falls more squarely in this category. If it is classified as high end audio equipment, then it will be a leader in the category. For example, just because empeg is capable of road navigation, we do not want to push empeg as a navigational device in the same segment as Alpine's DVD navigation system because empeg will be discredited in a review. Basically give credit where its due but don't sell it as something its not. (at least not yet).
Calvin
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#2772 - 12/05/2000 16:42
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: rob]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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I'm certainly not ruling out the player as the primary unit. what if there where a dumb terminal with HDs or CDs in suitable shock mountings elsewhere in the car?
This would enable maps to be upgraded quickly and open up other options.
Sure, this may not be seen as a problem with HD size sky rocketing, but we live in the age of options.
____________________________
Murray
_________________________
--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#2773 - 12/05/2000 17:05
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: Yonzie]
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member
Registered: 30/12/1999
Posts: 143
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Don't forget that your mom's going to need a CD burner, burning software, and someone to install it all for her and teach her to use it.
Hardware, software, and time considered, add $500.00 to the pricetags of devices like the Aiwa. Oh, don't forget the cost of CDRs (minimal, I know, but still tangible) and the fact that burners tend to be -very- temperamental.
So now it's roughly $800.00 vs. $1200.00. The benefits of the Empeg become more pronounced when you put it into this perspective...
-- Bleys
"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca
_________________________
"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca
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#2774 - 12/05/2000 17:11
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: eternalsun]
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member
Registered: 30/12/1999
Posts: 143
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I agree 100% with Calvin's assessment; it's right on target (for now).
-- Bleys
"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca
_________________________
"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca
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#2775 - 12/05/2000 17:27
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: eternalsun]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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Basically give credit where its due but don't sell it as something its not. (at least not yet).
But isn't that the point?
Ok, Alpine is developing a system of car management. But it is only Alpine developing it. The Open System of the Empeg allows much more freedom in development. Who is to say that The Empeg wont come out with DVD, GPS, etc? Alpine and others have been in the game for many years. Empeg is jumping in with a product which competes strongly in this catagory of car entertaiment and they are still just a baby company.
There are two fundamental differences between Alpine and Empeg though.
Their investments are in two separate catagories.
Alpine sells boxes. They offer some product support but most is delivered by local installer talent. For the most part (correct me if I'm wrong) they don't have the ability to simply upgrade functions of their products. You want more functionality? Buy a better box. It is entirely too difficult for Alpine and co to provide software letalone firmwhere updates for their products, because their company structure doesn't allow it readily.
Empeg sells software. They offer a box to put it in. but their company is into software development. Why did Hugo get the PSU in the orginal MP3car made by someone else? He even says he doesn't know hardware. bloody good job on the the Mk1 tho!! Empeg Offers Software and support for their hardware. Ease of upgrading is phenominal! If I wanted to get an Alpine player with the range of functions on the Empeg has made available, I would be buying a new player every 2 months.
Sure there are things which Empeg doesn't have available yet. but the key word is yet. As mentioned before most people look at the bang for the buck. and fundamentally it is "What do I get for my $1200?" Go to an Alpine dealer and ask the same question. Then do the comparison.
Then ask how much it will cost for the features which Empeg will be bringing out soon
Some people will always want a quick fix. They are not usually in this market.
____________________________
Murray
_________________________
--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#2776 - 16/05/2000 14:27
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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If it is classified as high end audio equipment, then it will be a leader in the category.
You hit the nail right on the head, Calvin.
I strongly suspect that the GREAT majority of purchasers of the empeg Mark II are NOT looking for a computer for their car that happens to play music.... but want a superior music player for their car that happens to be a computer.
I am somewhat of a computer geek (as are, I bet, most of the 614 people registered on this bbs) but I don't care one way or the other that the empeg Mark II is a computer. I just want the best music player on the market, and if that turned out to be hamsters in a cage turning Edison wax cylinders instead of an ARM processor running multi-gigabyte hard drives, then I'd start stocking up on hamster food.
When empeg goes mass market, you are going to see a big change in the user demographic. It will shift toward people who want an 800 CD in-dash changer, and the people who want to expand the capabilities of the empeg beyond music will fill into a small (but talented, vocal, and intriguing) minority.
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#2777 - 16/05/2000 14:42
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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and if that turned out to be hamsters in a cage turning Edison wax cylinders instead of an ARM processor running multi-gigabyte hard drives, then I'd start stocking up on hamster food.(ROFL) No, no, no, you're on the wrong BBS. You want the Guinea Pig Car BBS, not the Empeg Car BBS. Tony Fabris ( http://www.jps.net/tfabris) Empeg #144
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#2778 - 21/05/2000 12:50
Post deleted by PaulH
[Re: tfabris]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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#2779 - 21/05/2000 12:59
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Sheesh!
Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue
Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#2780 - 21/05/2000 13:08
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Ahhh... the enlightened have finally joined us, then. Pay attention at the back!
I'd really love to know what you would define as a computer, then - Linux, connectivity and hard disks not good enough for you? Or would you prefer that it has elastic bands and a whirly propellor as well?
Does your Wonderful Aiwa and Kenwood MP3 allow you to connect to the internet then? Yes? I'd better go down to the shops right now, buy at least three, throw out all these expensive workstations I have here (who needs Solaris when you have an Aiwa MP3?) and just use the Kenwood instead. And I can't believe it - I must be the only person on the planet without a CD-R drive. How embarrasssing! How will I hold my head up in front of the neighbours each morning!!!!!
Slap forehead Naughty brain! Naughty brain! punctuated by repeated slaps to head DON'T BUY EMPEG YOUR IDJIT DON'T BUY EMPEG YOUR IDJIT brain oozes out of side of head due to repeated percussive impact.
There, that taught you, didn't it?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#2781 - 21/05/2000 13:09
No flame war please
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I'd like to suggest that people don't get into a flamewar here. The post is obvious flamebait from someone who knows very little about the car player, and doesn't even have the guts to login to the BBS. Maybe it's the same guy who's being a dick on the mp3.com hardware discussion at the moment, who knows.
Save all the great advice for people who are actually open to other viewpoints.
Rob
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#2782 - 21/05/2000 13:59
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 356
Loc: NORWAY
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Hehehehehe.
I'm Norwegian and know some english, this idiot can't even spell the easiest words. I love my Empeg, it's a cool kåmpjuter.....
TommyE
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#2783 - 21/05/2000 14:33
Re: No flame war please
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I have to agree with you, Rob. I've only been participating on this BBS for 6 months or so, but I haven't seen a flame war in all that time. It'd be a shame to spoil that record now. Still, it makes a good case for disabling anonymous postings on the BBS. See what happens when you don't require registration? PaulH, are you listening? Tony Fabris ( http://www.jps.net/tfabris) Empeg #144
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#2784 - 21/05/2000 16:28
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
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journeyman
Registered: 05/10/1999
Posts: 89
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What is it, only May 21st?
Troll season comes earlier and earlier each year...
Corby
SN#320, 6-Gig Blue
P.S. My name spell checks out to 'Corcoran.' What the hell is Corcoran?
P.P.S. Hey, Rob said dick. That's a naughty word in the states. I wonder if the filter will accept 'pussy'? Yes, that's bloody good!
P.P.P.S. By reading this message, you agree that you are at least 18 years of age.
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#2785 - 21/05/2000 18:13
Re: No flame war please
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Yes, PaulH -- I concur with Tony. No aomynous... uhh, no annonnymus.... uhh, no amonymous.... uhh... nobody post anything here without identifying themselves first, dammit!
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#2786 - 21/05/2000 22:55
Re: Competition: Aiwa CDC-MP3
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enthusiast
Registered: 09/11/1999
Posts: 398
Loc: Ashburn, VA
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#2787 - 21/05/2000 23:50
Re: No flame war please
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Heh, I'm guessing you have never extensivly done FTP via a command line process. It's the whole reason I know how to spell anonymous correctly is from hundreds of FTP site visits back in 1994.
Also, NT is why I know administrator. :-)
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#2788 - 22/05/2000 00:41
Re: No flame war please
[Re: drakino]
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enthusiast
Registered: 15/06/1999
Posts: 259
Loc: Lincoln, NE
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Win 95/98 is why I know the ESC key  -Waiting to replace the hole in my truck with a Mark2
_________________________
Brian -See my empeg <a href="www.hulkster.net/empeg" target="_blank">here</a>-
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#2789 - 22/05/2000 01:28
Re: No flame war please
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Such anonymous postings (if not disabled) should only be ignored.
They could never change my mind and my way of thinking about the empeg and I think those people who are interested in the empeg feel the same way I do when reading such postings.
MY only worry is to get a Mk 2 as soon as possible.
There will be many facturers who will come with a mp3 cd-player or flashcard player for the car in the end of this year or next year. For example blaupunkt will also offer an mp3-player for the car.
And Sony is about to bring out voice-recognition with some new models (But no mp3 - who know why ;-)
But the empeg combines voice recognition and the whole music archive (that you've converted) and a great look and is a very good car-stereo (I'm sure it is, although I don't have one yet) and is for individualists. Everyone has an alpine or sony or kenwood. They might be nice. but not enough for me.
Waiting so hard for the shipping of the Mk 2
TeeMcBee
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#2790 - 22/05/2000 02:28
Re: No flame war please
[Re: bmihulka]
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journeyman
Registered: 19/09/1999
Posts: 97
Loc: Denmark, Kbh Ø
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and linux is why I know "root"
Mark
wait for mk III with a USB Host/slave
(USB->Ethernet)(USB->COM 1-8)(USB->You name it)
_________________________
Mark
wait for mk III with a USB Host/slave
(USB->GPS)(USB->Bluetooth)(USB->You name it)
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#2791 - 22/05/2000 02:33
Re: No flame war please
[Re: bmihulka]
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addict
Registered: 20/05/1999
Posts: 411
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Shouldn't that be the Ctrl, Alt and Delete keys? Or the reset button? Or even just hitting your head against the keyboard?
:)
--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)
_________________________
--
Mike Crowe
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#2792 - 22/05/2000 09:25
Re: No flame war please
[Re: Mark Petersen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Well, root is rather easy to spell compaired to administrator. I still find it funny looking at people trying to crack a Linux machine and seeing in the logs: "Failed logon: adminin^H^H^H". After that comes "Failed logon: administrator", then finally if they get a clue, "Incorrect password for: root"
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#2793 - 22/05/2000 11:09
Re: No flame war please
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hey, you would have been proud of me. My first installation of Linux, I was presented with that login box under KDE, and I sat there for a minute, wondering what the user name would be. It had prompted me for the root password during installation, but never prompted me for an adminstrator's user name. Then I realized- DUH!, the root user name is "root". Typed it in correctly the first time. Tony Fabris ( http://www.jps.net/tfabris) Empeg #144
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#2794 - 22/05/2000 18:47
Re: Post deleted by PaulH
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journeyman
Registered: 05/10/1999
Posts: 89
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Hey Paul, this is your BBS, and you can run it however you like. I'm just throwing out an opinion from a user who has enjoyed your BBS enough to donate to the cause.
As Empeg grows more and more popular, we are going to see more posts like the one you deleted, where someone who really has no interest in the Empeg community defaces the board with flamebait.
But I don't think deleting every such post is a very scalable process. As more and more such posts arise, you are more likely to be put in the sticky position of making questionable judgement calls about what to censor and what not to censor. Not to mention that someone persistent enough can simply repost.
So my suggestion would be to avoid deleting posts, even those that have no redeeming social value.
Corby
SN#320, 6-Gig Blue
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#2795 - 22/05/2000 19:38
Re: Post deleted by PaulH
[Re: corby]
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enthusiast
Registered: 15/06/1999
Posts: 259
Loc: Lincoln, NE
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Hopefully Paul will turn off the anonymous posting and then there will be less of a chance of that type of post.
Has anyone out there emailed Paul asking if he knows about the anonymous posting?
-Waiting to replace the hole in my truck with a Mark2
_________________________
Brian -See my empeg <a href="www.hulkster.net/empeg" target="_blank">here</a>-
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#2796 - 22/05/2000 23:20
Re: Post deleted by PaulH
[Re: bmihulka]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Has anyone out there emailed Paul asking if he knows about the anonymous posting?I sent him a private BBS message. I think he knows. Perhaps he took care of it at the same time he deleted that other message. He seems to be a man of few words, but takes action when necessary.  For the record, that's the first piece of flame-bait I've seen on the BBS, and I think it's cool that no one took it. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#2797 - 23/05/2000 08:21
Re: No flame war please
[Re: rob]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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In reply to:
I'd like to suggest that people don't get into a flamewar here. The post is obvious flamebait from someone who knows very little about the car player, and doesn't even have the guts to login to the BBS. Maybe it's the same guy who's being a dick on the mp3.com hardware discussion at the moment, who knows.
Save all the great advice for people who are actually open to other viewpoints.
I just thought I'd like to mention a few things. I never had the opportunity to read the "flamebait", but I'm sure that flame messages could have a slight negative impact on the morale of customers and the empeg developers. I'm sure that the empeg guys get lots of feedback from all the experienced empeg owners out there to lighten their days against attacks of this sort.
I'd like to offer my feedback from the perspective of a newbie to empeg, as well as a person without a great deal of money, and as a person that is definitely not an audiophile or enthusiast. I hope that it helps contribute to the overall morale of empeg (customers and developers), and illustrate that not all newbies share a flame point of view.
I have never owned or seen an empeg (other than videos). But from the first day I saw the empeg site and screen shots, I had to find out more.
Since then (almost two months), I am very hyped over the empeg. I was hyped about the Mark I and didn't even know there was going to be a Mark II at first. The Mark II pretty much gave me wood . I have since begun saving up every penny towards getting one of these players.
Even though the empeg unit has a large price tag attached, what has been the real selling factor for me and why I'm encouraged to buy an empeg is what I have seen from the community and empeg's staff. It is obvious that empeg is a company that has very good business ethics, but at the same time has a lot of care and consideration for their product and customers. Empeg is a company that has a lot of faith in their product and is motivated to please it's customers (both with technology and support). I am impressed with the empeg staff involving themselves with the community so personally. All this in combination with the excellent conversations and testimonies on this BBS truely make the competition look silly. I think that empeg has created an exceptional product with amazing potential, and a product that I myself believe in.
As a customer, I prefer to deal with companies that can see past the dollar bill and recognize that they have customers who are real people!
I don't think I can ever look at another head unit seriously again  .
I've seen and researched details on the empeg car and I've sparked in the interest in all my friends, whom have passed that knowledge down the line to others. When I get my empeg car, it is my intentions to register it on the developer site in hopes that someone here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada will be interested in an empeg and wanna see it in operation. It would be nice to be able to promote such an awesome product that deserves as much attention as it can get!
The only thing I'm sad about now, is that I've run out of things to read about! I wish I had an empeg right now!
I don't think I'm the only stranger to share this opinion. I think the empeg guys are doing a great job and I can't wait to buy one. My sincere thanks and appreciation goes out to you, Rob, Hugo, and all you other empeg guys (and I don't even have an empeg yet)! Keep up the excellent work!
Actually, the community deserves some thanks too. The enormous amount of information I've aquired from all of you (tfabris, dionysus, hell there are too many of you to list) has been invaluable.
I hope this little ramble has helped to make the empeg guys realize just how much new people to the community really believe in the empeg car and it's developers!
Kureg
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#2798 - 23/05/2000 16:15
Re: Post deleted by PaulH
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Tony,
That's a nice sig. Reminds me of the C64 days. Can you do a twirly cursor? ;)
Calvin
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#2800 - 23/05/2000 18:35
Re: No flame war please
[Re: Kureg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Thanks for the nice comments :-) I can't help but think that we should quote feedback like that in our literature! Anti-empeg flames don't generally affect our morale as the comments are usually ill-informed and immature. On MP3.com recently, the total demise of our company was confidently predicted by one rather rude poster. We find that kind of thing vaguely amusing, as the fact is that we can't recruit fast enough to be able to take on all of the work that has been offered to us. (Good C++ coders, apply to [email protected] for details!). Rob
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