#275602 - 05/02/2006 19:03
New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Over the past couple of weeks, it has become painfully obvious that I really need a logic analyser in-house for current and future work.
There are several USB-based analysers available for use with a PC. So today I ordered an Intronix unit, plus four sets of coloured clips from Digikey to go with it. I'll have to run the Windows GUI inside VMware, but that's okay (gotta love USB!).
It won out over the Tech-Tools similar model because of the 2ns sampling rate (vs. 10ns) and widely adjustable trigger levels. Both products allow download of the actual software with preloaded demo samples to try before you buy. An excellent way to do it, and great fun besides!
There was also a fancier model from BitScope with a Linux GUI and digital scope capabilities, but the digital sample rate was too low for my liking.
And let us not forget the nifty (and much cheaper!) Ant8/Ant16, but I didn't like their probes as much, and the input impedence was a tad low.
Related to this stuff, I also looked at cheap Digital Storage Scopes (logic analysers display 1-bit high/low values, whereas digital scopes record a broader range of input values on an 8-12 bit scale, to show analog waveforms and noise etc..). The Wittig self-contained model looks cute, and the Swordfish (US$199 here) comes across as a fairly useful tool, though low in bandwidth.
I've posted these links here, in case anyone else might someday want a starting point for researching them.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (06/02/2006 01:04)
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#275603 - 05/02/2006 23:55
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Ooh. Nice.
I looked closely at BitScope when I needed an oscilloscope. Although the design philosophy is great (open), and having mixed signal capabilities in one box is desirable, I decided that the specs were just too compromised to justify the price. You can do better with used brand name stuff on ebay - In my case I scored a TDS360 for an absolute steal.
The Ant16 doesn't look that much cheaper - it's only about $40 less but you lose 18 channels! The Ant8 is certainly cheap if you live with only 8 channels.
The two pen units are novel, but too limited for their price. Most of the time you want to analyse a signal with respect to another - and you can't do that with a single channel. The Ant8 is a much better choice than either IMO.
The Tech-Tools and the Intronix units both look to raising the bar though. Let us know how you get on with the new toy!
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#275604 - 06/02/2006 00:57
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
The Ant16 doesn't look that much cheaper - it's only about $40 less but you lose 18 channels!
Yeah, but once one factors in a set of probes/clips, it's about a 30% difference! Mostly due to the better quality probes with the Intronix. But I suppose one could do their own fiddling and end up with equal quality probes/clips for either.
Cheers
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#275605 - 06/02/2006 02:04
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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That's because you have to buy 18 more of them! 
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#275606 - 06/02/2006 02:36
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Neat, the one we had for our group at ATI only cost 100x the price. Maybe I can hijack this thread and ask about USB traffic analyzers. I'll probably start with a software-based solution ( this one from HHD), but one of the more affordable hardware/software devices I've found is the Ellisys USB Tracker 110 analyzer. Anyone ever use either of the above? Or can recommend anything else? Bruno
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#275607 - 06/02/2006 11:17
Re: USB Traffic Analyser
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
one of the more affordable hardware/software devices I've found is the Ellisys USB Tracker 110 analyzer.
Funny, that's the only one I seem to be able to find with Google.
Well, okay, the "USBMobile HS" also pops up, but never with enough information or a price.
Cheers!
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#275608 - 06/02/2006 13:53
Re: USB Traffic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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I have an ellisys usb explorer 200 (USB2.0 HS) in front of me here. Seems to do the job as well as the CATC USB chief that we used to use for USB1.1, but siginificantly cheaper than the CATC USB2.0 alternative.
One of the CATC alternatives was a PCMCIA card that cost about $13,000. I'm really not sure any PCMCIA card deserves to cost that much....
Hugo
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#275609 - 06/02/2006 14:27
Re: USB Traffic Analyser
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
a PCMCIA card that cost about $13,000. I'm really not sure any PCMCIA card deserves to cost that much....
Was it made out of ground Unicorn horn or something? 
_________________________
-- roger
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#275610 - 06/02/2006 14:53
Re: USB Traffic Analyser
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Everyone knows that ground unicorn horn does not work with electronic components. The magical properties interact with the electronics and skew your results. The only place you really see it used in any quantity is in the containment of magic blue smoke, typically in both Intel and AMD processors.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275611 - 07/02/2006 15:24
Re: USB Traffic Analyser
[Re: pgrzelak]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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That's only because most ground unicorn horn found on the black market is usually nothing more than non-magical narwhal horn. Real unicorn horn does wonders for electronics.
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#275612 - 07/02/2006 21:07
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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First impressions (I've had it here for three hours now):
- DHL Express was fast and hassle-free -- 22 hours from pick-up in Phoenix Arizona, to my door in Ottawa Canada.
- The software works fine running on WinXP inside VMware, talking over the USB port per normal. And VMware is now a freebie, by the way..
- The 2048 sample (elastic) buffer is adequate. I wish it were larger, but triggering around that is pretty easy, so no big deal.
- The 2ns sampling capability is fantastic for detecting signal glitches!
- The EZ-Hook XKM coloured clips (from DigiKey) are simply wonderful.
- Oh, and it is so tiny it's kinda cute.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (07/02/2006 21:15)
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#275613 - 08/02/2006 00:53
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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...and it has already helped me accomplish way more in five hours than over the previous two weeks on the same problem. I've found/fixed clock glitches, logic level mismatches, a clock divisor issue, and figured out the timing for a badly undocumented component.
Yee-haw!
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#275614 - 08/02/2006 09:16
Re: USB Traffic Analyser
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
I have an ellisys usb explorer 200 (USB2.0 HS) in front of me here.
On Hugo's recommendation we also have one of these, and it's a total godsend. The USB Org software based tools were *terrible* in comparison.
Rob
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#275615 - 10/02/2006 02:26
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Final conclusion after three evenings of use: this Intronix LogicPort analyser Rocks!.
We absolutely love it!
Cheers
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#275616 - 10/02/2006 14:29
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Well, I'm waiting for mine to turn up. Should be here early next week. I've been looking for a PC-connectable one for years to replace or supplement my trusty but aged HP 1630G, and this is the first one I've seen that has both a very good specification and reasonable cost. The fact that I can stick it in my laptop bag as well is a real bonus pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#275617 - 11/02/2006 22:25
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'm waiting for mine to turn up.
Well, here's a teaser for you!
For some reason, this device uses a USB A->A cable (included), rather than the usual A->B cable. Whatever.
Cheers!
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#275618 - 12/02/2006 17:41
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm trying to ID the board you're plugged into there, and can't...
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#275619 - 13/02/2006 01:50
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'm trying to ID the board you're plugged into there, and can't...
Funny, that..
Edited by mlord (13/02/2006 02:07)
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#275620 - 13/02/2006 07:43
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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#275621 - 13/02/2006 19:27
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
You tease.
The test image is a total red herring (umm, blue penguin in fact) but all will be revealed at the Musik Messe show in a month or so. I doubt many non DJs will get excited. Then again, empeg got quite a few Linux geeks interested in car audio, so who knows!
Rob
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#275622 - 15/02/2006 22:11
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Mine came today, and although I haven't had time to do more than play with it for a few minutes, it looks pretty good. Thanks for finding it and reminding me I wanted one pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#275623 - 15/02/2006 23:12
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Mine came today, and although I haven't had time to do more than play with it for a few minutes, it looks pretty good. Thanks for finding it and reminding me I wanted one
You're most welcome! And here, it even helped win points on the domestic front (SWMBO being an EE, she loved playing with it last week!).
Cheers
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#275624 - 08/03/2006 04:21
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 08/03/2006
Posts: 1
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I would like to thank you for your Intronix Logicport review as well. I've known about this product for a while, but have been waiting to hear someone's first-hand experience.
Just ordered mine - can't wait to give it a go!
ecumenizm
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#275625 - 05/04/2006 19:29
Intronix Logicport USB-based analyser inside VMWare on Linux
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Mm... the google search for this site doesn't find this thread for some reason.. maybe a posting with a keyword-laden subject line will help (I may want to refer back here again someday!).
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#275626 - 06/04/2006 10:05
Re: Intronix Logicport USB-based analyser inside VMWare on Linux
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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Is the protocol decoding in this hard coded into the software?
It'd be nice if it was done with plugins (and suitable sdk) so that others could implement their own decoders.
We've got a couple of logic analysers here, but they're big b*****ds (tektronix), one has it's own trolley and consists of what looks like a sparc station, vga monitor & a huge box where the connections go.
The other is still rather large (standard tektronix colour LCD), but not in the same scale!
This thing looks good though, it could hang off the back of my desk and take up no space whatsoever!
Edited by sn00p (06/04/2006 10:06)
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#275627 - 06/04/2006 12:12
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: ecumenizm]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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AOL. I purchased one of these for a subcontractor to use (reverse-engineering signal timings from a digital micromoeter) and he's very happy with it.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#275628 - 06/04/2006 19:56
Re: Intronix Logicport USB-based analyser inside VMWare on Linux
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Is the protocol decoding in this hard coded into the software?
Yes, it seems to be. But the maker informed me that he planned additional protocol interpreters in the future, so perhaps he'll figure out a plug-in scheme for them(?).
Quote:
It'd be nice if it was done with plugins (and suitable sdk) so that others could implement their own decoders.
Agreed!
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#275629 - 06/04/2006 20:01
Re: Intronix Logicport USB-based analyser inside VMWare on Linux
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Note that the built-in SPI interpreter is fairly well programmable, though, for bit/word format etc..
Try out the driver software -- free download from their site, no probe necessary to explore the feature set.
Cheers
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#275630 - 07/04/2006 06:05
Re: Intronix Logicport USB-based analyser inside VMWare on Linux
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Note that the built-in SPI interpreter is fairly well programmable, though, for bit/word format etc..
Ah.. that'll be why Patrick now wants us to buy one of our own
Rob
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#275631 - 18/04/2006 08:45
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/05/2000
Posts: 84
Loc: Australia
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My LogicPort arrived today and is already proving to be VERY useful, especially the I2C interpreter. Thanks Mark.
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#306033 - 12/01/2008 10:33
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: Rod]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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Another free bump for this piece of kit....
...I don't use this that often apart from when I'm having major problems, or I need to "see more" than I can on my oscilloscope, just such an occasion happened this week.
I've been doing some RFID work (initially 125Khz, now onto 13.5Mhz with Mifare + the standard ISO standards) and this came in so useful for verifying that we were seeing valid signals. We were quite chuffed that our little tiny isolation routed pcb worked straight off with our completely randomly wound coil, ok the card had to literally sit directly on the coil to read....but a few hours later and a few calculations we had the full 12 cm read range.
There are a few things that still bug me though (and I must get around to emailing their support department):
1) The website with the download has no version or date information, so you basically have to guess whether and when it was last updated.
2) The protocol decoders and still limited and fixed, I so wish these were implemented as plugins, a "manchester" decoder would have made my life very easy, I was having to do it by hand, or rather I was shouting 0 or 1 across the room to my boss who was writing them all down for me.
3) A few more output formats (plugins) would be handy.
Other than that, it's a great instrument. The A to A cable is a bit of a pain, especially as I had to go hunting for it because it'd been stored when we moved office.
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#306038 - 12/01/2008 13:42
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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There are a few things that still bug me though (and I must get around to emailing their support department):
Heh.. I suspect that it's a one-man company, so the support department should prove quite knowledgeable! 
1) The website with the download has no version or date information, so you basically have to guess whether and when it was last updated.
It has a build number. If that's higher than your installed build ( Help-> About), then upgrade away. Cheers
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#306969 - 06/02/2008 20:17
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Well, two years have passed, and there now seems to be more choice out there for these devices. I found this www.debug-store.com page which has links to many newer USB-based analyzers. The best of that bunch seems to be the Janatek Annie-USB 8-Channel 500MHz pod, with clips for only £275.00 / €371.25. As far as I can tell, nothing out there matches the combination of speed/price of the LogicPort yet, but there are several appealing alternatives which include much larger buffers and DSS capabilities. Some updates from my original posting: The ANT16 no longer exists, but has been replaced by a very overpriced ANT18i model. The BitScope units have been updated and still look quite appealing for their scope capabilities, USB/ethernet interfaces, and native Linux software. But the sample rates are still somewhat low on those. Meanwhile, I'm now off to hook my LogicPort back up to a dead Mk2a here and see if the clocks are functioning correctly or not. Cheers
Edited by mlord (06/02/2008 20:51)
Edit Reason: Fixed link, added note about Annie-USB
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#306970 - 06/02/2008 20:40
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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And this PO-Scope 6-in-1 kit looks interesting/cheap, but I'm unable to find any specifications on it (eg. samples/sec rates). I'm looking at this stuff again now, because I think I might want a digital scope here.
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#307646 - 25/02/2008 22:55
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 25/02/2008
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
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mlord, 100Hz-200kHz :-( http://po.labs.googlepages.com/technicalcharacteristicsThanks for waking this thread up again by the way. It's very interesting to learn about your experiences now compared to back when you got the Intronix. I was looking at the Intronix a while back but the BitScope's analog/digital capabilities was tempting. I finally got a BitScope 310U on eBay and I've been happy with it ever since for general hobby work. I'm getting more and more into I2C and bitbanging with faster PIC processors so I'm now looking at an affordable logic analyzer to catch those fast digital signals. That Janatek Annie-USB 8-Channel 500MHz you mentioned looks like good value for the money, especially with that deep buffer of 1Ms/channel. I was also looking at LAP-16128U 16 Channel Logic Analyzer from Saelig (also branded Zeroplus apparently), but it seems the increased number of channels brings the buffer size down, so maybe the Janatek is a better choice.
Edited by raven (25/02/2008 23:05)
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#307649 - 26/02/2008 02:50
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: raven]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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.. I'm getting more and more into I2C and bitbanging with faster PIC processors so I'm now looking at an affordable logic analyzer to catch those fast digital signals. That Janatek Annie-USB 8-Channel 500MHz you mentioned looks like good value for the money, especially with that deep buffer of 1Ms/channel. I was also looking at LAP-16128U 16 Channel Logic Analyzer from Saelig Too slow -- 200Mhz sampling means 100Mhz max capture: not fast enough for most logic. 500Mhz sampling is really the entry point here, and the LogicPort excels at it. The Annie-USB should also be good, but dunno about the software quality there, and the price is definitely higher than the LogicPort. The LogicPort does have *very good* software, one of the best points of which is that one can download/run it in demo mode before deciding to purchase (or not). Thanks for the good note on the Bitscope stuff, too. Maybe I'll troll eBay looking for a bargain there -- lower price would certainly make up for a lot. cheers
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#307655 - 26/02/2008 03:11
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Well, two years have passed, and there now seems to be more choice out there for these devices. I found this www.debug-store.com page which has links to many newer USB-based analyzers. The best of that bunch seems to be the Janatek Annie-USB 8-Channel 500MHz pod, with clips for only £275.00 / €371.25. Mmm. either I cut and pasted that incorrectly, or something else has gone weird. But the correct link now seems to be www.thedebugstore.com. And note that the Janotek USB logic analyzer has a 4K samples/channel buffer depth at 500Mhz. The 1Meg samples buffer applies only to slower sampling rates. Strange. Cheers
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#307663 - 26/02/2008 06:35
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 25/02/2008
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
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I'm really just a newbie/hobbyist, but about the only thing I have to complain about with the BitScope is that the sampling frequenzy is a bit slow and the buffer size definately could be bigger. Isn't the Intronix buffer size limiting? At 500 MHz I'd expect it to fill upp pretty fast.
The janatek software can also be downloaded and run as an offline demo, and I must say the software doesn't feel very polished. Seems they've put alot of time into the hardware and maybe not so much in the software. I really don't understand why even in this age some software makers make their own scroll bars and levers instead of using the standard API's for this. I just tested it quickly last night so I'll give it some more time before a final verdict.
I read some specs about the Janatek where they quoted that the 4K buffer at 500MHz only was with certain models. Doesn't that sound odd? I'll have to try and find those specs again.
Edited by raven (26/02/2008 06:39)
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#307665 - 26/02/2008 06:39
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Mmm. either I cut and pasted that incorrectly, or something else has gone weird. But the correct link now seems to be www.thedebugstore.com. Both URLs work fine for me.
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#307681 - 26/02/2008 14:55
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: raven]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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I'm really just a newbie/hobbyist, but about the only thing I have to complain about with the BitScope is that the sampling frequenzy is a bit slow and the buffer size definately could be bigger. Isn't the Intronix buffer size limiting? At 500 MHz I'd expect it to fill upp pretty fast. Yeah, it can fill up quickly. But it also uses compression, where it need only store transitions, rather than actual samples.. which makes the effective buffer size much larger for most purposes. I'd still like more space, of course, but not at the expense of losing the 500Mhz sample rate, or having a poor UI. Cheers
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#307699 - 26/02/2008 21:58
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 25/02/2008
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
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If you log an irregular signal at 500MHz, around what sampling time can be expected with the Intronix? I realise it depends on the nature of the signal because of the compression, but can you give a rough unscientific estimation?
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#307705 - 27/02/2008 03:37
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: raven]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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If you log an irregular signal at 500MHz, around what sampling time can be expected with the Intronix? I realise it depends on the nature of the signal because of the compression, but can you give a rough unscientific estimation? Short. Anywhere from 10usec (minimum) to several seconds, I think. The buffer can record 2048 samples, 34 bits wide. Each time one of the sampled signals has a state transition, it will cause one of the 2048 slots to be taken up in the buffer. Cheers
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#307782 - 01/03/2008 21:28
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've finally got some spare time (no, I've not been fired) and I've got back into tinkering with micro controllers (namely the Arduino Diecimila) so I've decided I might as well get some bits to make things easier. This 6 in 1 jobbie has caught my eye. I can get it for £87.57 delivered. What do you guys think?
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#307784 - 01/03/2008 21:50
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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I've finally got some spare time (no, I've not been fired) and I've got back into tinkering with micro controllers (namely the Arduino Diecimila) so I've decided I might as well get some bits to make things easier. This 6 in 1 jobbie has caught my eye. I can get it for £87.57 delivered. What do you guys think? 200kHz max sample rate on the analogue scope? The logic port can do up to (only) 8MHz. 200kHz isn't even enough for fast I2C if you want to look at signals in the "analogue" space. They even have a link from the tech specs page justifying the 200kHz maximum. Maybe that's all you get for the money you're talking though. I haven't researched these things that thoroughly but the logicport has sort of caught my eye as a result of this thread
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#307785 - 01/03/2008 22:08
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: Shonky]
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new poster
Registered: 25/02/2008
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
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andym, I think you'd get frustrated pretty quickly with those low specs. It really sucks to sit and debug, and not be sure if you can trust the measurements.
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#307786 - 01/03/2008 22:19
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: Shonky]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Yes, the logicport would be nice but it's at least twice the price and at the moment I'm still playing. I have an old oscilloscope from work that does 20-odd MHz.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#307787 - 01/03/2008 22:24
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've also noticed that Mark has already seen this product. I'm not sure, the only other product that is in that price range is the ant8. I suppose I could make do with only 8 inputs if it truly is a good product.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#307788 - 01/03/2008 22:32
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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I've also noticed that Mark has already seen this product. I'm not sure, the only other product that is in that price range is the ant8. I suppose I could make do with only 8 inputs if it truly is a good product. Not really comparing apples with apples there. The PoScope is a combined scope/logic analyser whereas the the Ant8 is a logic analyser only. The Ant8 has less channels yes, but also has a 500MHz sample rate compared with 8MHz on the PoScope. Do you want/need a scope, an analyser or both? Or are you looking for a logic analyser and the PC scope would be "nice to have" Even 8MHz on the PoScope isn't exactly fast (i.e. only a 4MHz signal can be captured and then it's nice to have much more overhead to capture issues like when setup and hold times aren't being obeyed). 8 channels is limiting though on the Ant8 if you want to put address and data buses into it. Fine for things like SPI, I2C etc though.
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#307789 - 01/03/2008 22:57
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: Shonky]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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It's an analyser that I'm after. As I mentioned I have already got an old scope which copes with most things. Think my money will be going on the ant8. Although the software seems a little basic.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#307791 - 01/03/2008 23:07
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Although the software seems a little basic. Yeah doesn't look like it can decode SPI, I2C, serial etc. Personally, that's something I'd use quite a bit, but might be only available on higher priced models. It's also 50% more expensive than the PoScope you were looking at. IMO the PoScope "scope" is really a toy but I'm looking at it more from a professional side. I'd think I'd find it rather limiting even for personal use.
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#307796 - 02/03/2008 01:44
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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It's an analyser that I'm after. As I mentioned I have already got an old scope which copes with most things. Think my money will be going on the ant8. Although the software seems a little basic. Yeah, if you cannot afford the LogicPort, then the ant8 is really the only show in town. 8 channels is sufficient enough for most neeeds, in my opinion. 10 would be even better (8-data + clock + trigger), and beyond that is just gravy.
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#307800 - 02/03/2008 07:15
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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Another vote here for the logicport. I don't use mine very often, but it's proved very useful when I have had to use it.
My only real wish is that it had more extensive decoders (I don't think the ant8 has any) or some sort of mechanism for plugging in your own decoders.
For me, a manchester decoder would be highly desirable!
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#307806 - 02/03/2008 15:04
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Dammit, looks like the logicport is the only way to go. It is only £187 direct from the manufacturer (thank you weak US dollar!) Just do a bit of saving up first, I'm sure there's some crap I can sell on ebay.....
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Andy M
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#307808 - 02/03/2008 16:04
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Dammit, looks like the logicport is the only way to go. It is only £187 direct from the manufacturer (thank you weak US dollar!) Just do a bit of saving up first, I'm sure there's some crap I can sell on ebay..... Keep in mind that you'll also want some clips to go with that -- I think I had some notes about those higher up in this thread. The ant8 includes (inferior) clips, I think. Cheer
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#307810 - 02/03/2008 19:19
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I'm just going to buy some from Intronix when I place the order, the ones in CPC and RS are really expensive.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#308365 - 18/03/2008 14:49
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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If you log an irregular signal at 500MHz, around what sampling time can be expected with the Intronix? I realise it depends on the nature of the signal because of the compression, but can you give a rough unscientific estimation? Short. Anywhere from 10usec (minimum) to several seconds, I think. The buffer can record 2048 samples, 34 bits wide. Each time one of the sampled signals has a state transition, it will cause one of the 2048 slots to be taken up in the buffer. Mmm.. time to correct that. The Intronix does not use sample compression at 500Mhz -- so you're limited to about 4us total capture interval at that speed. At all other sample rates, it *does* use compression, making the effective buffer size *much* larger in practice. Cheers
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#308725 - 31/03/2008 00:29
Welec W2022A Oscilloscope has its own thread now
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Note for anyone looking for the Welec W2022A Digital Storage Oscilloscope postings: those have been moved to their own thread. Cheers
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#311492 - 21/06/2008 00:54
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 21/06/2008
Posts: 1
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I'm looking at this stuff again now, because I think I might want a digital scope here.
How about: U2701A Jon
Edited by dso2la34 (21/06/2008 01:00)
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#311493 - 21/06/2008 01:42
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: dso2la34]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Mmmmmm. Windows-only.
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Bitt Faulk
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#315422 - 22/10/2008 17:33
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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During my regular visit to the website of my favorite electronic engineering pornographers, I noticed this new product. What do you guys think?
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#315450 - 22/10/2008 20:34
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Cool. Good for the stuff they advertise it for: slow speed serial links and the like. Anything over 12Mhz or so will need a faster analyser.
Cheers
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#316182 - 09/11/2008 23:22
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 25/02/2008
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
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andym, it's very nice. The software is extremely intuitive! Analyzers and other features are being introduced on a regular basis. I recommend you download the software and try it out. It's got a simulation mode when no hardware is connected so you can try the analyzers on faked data.
I went with it mainly because of the price, the software and the large buffer (which is actually limitless as long as the USB connection can move the data fast enough). I work with 8-bit MCU:s and it's a perfect tool for that.
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#354962 - 17/09/2012 13:58
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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There's now another highly-rated USB logic analyzer on the market: http://www.saleae.com/logicThey sell an 8-bit model for $150 (EZ-Hook clips included), and a 16-bit model for double that. The support software appears to be all open source and has GUIs for Linux, Mac, and Windows. Extensible, too. I already have the LogicPort, but if I didn't have it, I'd be very tempted by this product. Speaking of the LogicPort -- there have been some nice software updates of late for it too. Cheers
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#354983 - 18/09/2012 06:00
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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There's now another highly-rated USB logic analyzer on the market: http://www.saleae.com/logicThey sell an 8-bit model for $150 (EZ-Hook clips included), and a 16-bit model for double that. The support software appears to be all open source and has GUIs for Linux, Mac, and Windows. Extensible, too. I already have the LogicPort, but if I didn't have it, I'd be very tempted by this product. Speaking of the LogicPort -- there have been some nice software updates of late for it too. Cheers Will have to have a look at the newer logic port software when I'm in the office, it's about time there were some decent updates for it! (protocol analysers). I only tend to break the logicport out when I'm really stumped with something. What I actually want now is for the openviszla team (kickstarter) to actually deliver something and make the project available to the masses. I'm still tempted to do it myself with off the shelf boards. USB PHY BOARD (available on eBay) + FPGA BOARD WITH SDRAM (available anywhere) + CYPRESS FX2 BOARD (available anywhere). Dump the ULPI data to the fpga and then to the FX2 and into the pc. Adrian
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#355044 - 21/09/2012 04:06
Re: New Toy: USB-based Logic Analyser
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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There's now another highly-rated USB logic analyzer on the market: http://www.saleae.com/logicThey sell an 8-bit model for $150 (EZ-Hook clips included), and a 16-bit model for double that. The support software appears to be all open source and has GUIs for Linux, Mac, and Windows. Extensible, too. The 8 bit one has been out for almost a couple of years now; the developer hangs around the hacker dojo occasionally. It's pretty slick, but is one of those things where if you can't sustain the data rate to the PC, it stops. There's zero buffering or triggering in the device itself, the PC is the one looking for the trigger event. OTOH, you can save the data out as CSV and post-process it with some python, which is what I did to add some new protocol decodes. Very useful!
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