#278573 - 30/03/2006 13:26
Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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Is there any way to get Windows XP's Picture and Fax viewer to display images rotated according to their exif data? I like the way the viewer works, but I refuse to rotate the images using that program and possibly lose some quality.
Thanks in advance for any tips!
Rene
P.S. I used ACDSee's lossless rotation feature in the past, but I don't want to install any more software then I need.
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12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#278574 - 30/03/2006 13:34
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: ShadowMan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I can't help too much except to offer that JPEGs support lossless image rotation. I use the feature all the time with Irfanview. My Sony DSC-U50 can rotate its lens 180 degrees so I can take self portraits with a friend. Then I use Irfanview to losslessly rotate them 180 degrees back.
Having this automatic would be better, but I'm pretty sure the Windows program does it losslessly too... I simple test of file size should let you know.
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Brad B.
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#278575 - 30/03/2006 14:45
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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Quote: I can't help too much except to offer that JPEGs support lossless image rotation. I use the feature all the time with Irfanview. My Sony DSC-U50 can rotate its lens 180 degrees so I can take self portraits with a friend. Then I use Irfanview to losslessly rotate them 180 degrees back.
Having this automatic would be better, but I'm pretty sure the Windows program does it losslessly too... I simple test of file size should let you know.
The size is different... in one example I just tried here it went from 1,386,317 bytes to 1,298,466 bytes.
Rene
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12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#278576 - 30/03/2006 14:54
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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The first time you select to rotate an image it warns you that you'll lose information
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#278577 - 30/03/2006 14:57
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: ShadowMan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Unfortunately, you can't use file size as a test to see if the transform was done losslessly.
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Bitt Faulk
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#278578 - 30/03/2006 15:23
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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I remember it warning me the first time it would have to do it lossily, which was not the first time. I was under the impression that it was dependent on the dimensions of the jpg. These days I use a mac and shoot raw, and any jpgs are throwawy coppies anyways.
Matthew
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#278579 - 30/03/2006 15:35
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote: Unfortunately, you can't use file size as a test to see if the transform was done losslessly.
You kind of can actually:
- use XP picture viewer to rotate through 90 degrees - close XP picture viewer - note the new file size - use XP picture viewer to rotate back and forth through 90 degrees a few times (closing it each time you rotate) - at the end rotate back to the position you first rotated it to - note the finishing file size
If the file size after the first rotation and the last are the same then you can be pretty sure that it is rotating losslessly. I've just done this and it would appear to be rotating losslessly, which is a surprise.
If it wasn't rotating losslessly then the file size would change and more and more rotations were applied.
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#278580 - 30/03/2006 16:00
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: ShadowMan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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A standard Cygwin install includes "jpegtran" which supports lossless rotations. You'd need to find some other tool that understands EXIF such that you could script your rotations (and suitably change the EXIF header). Or, just install Picasa (free at picasa.google.com) and don't worry about it.
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#278581 - 30/03/2006 16:16
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I know jpegtran does it losslessly and it changes the file size. (I even rotated 90, then 270 degrees with it, converted that and the original to pnm and verified that the two resultant files were identical, despite that the input files were differently sized.) However, I also know that the MS thing tosses EXIF data when you rotate.
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Bitt Faulk
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#278582 - 30/03/2006 20:23
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote: I know jpegtran does it losslessly and it changes the file size. (I even rotated 90, then 270 degrees with it, converted that and the original to pnm and verified that the two resultant files were identical, despite that the input files were differently sized.) However, I also know that the MS thing tosses EXIF data when you rotate.
I think misunderstood my explanation, I probably wasn't clear enough. I wasn't suggesting that rotating losslessly kept the file size the same. If you take a jpeg and rotate it losslessly by 90 degrees from the original file, the file size will change.
What I was saying is that you can demonstrate that a lossless rotation has taken place by rotating through 90 degrees, saving the jpeg, loading the rotated jpeg, rotating it back through 90 degress and then saving it again. Do that a couple of times and if the file size at a particular rotation point doesn't change then you have lossless rotation going on.
It looks like the Windows Viewer partially trashes the EXIF data, which is wierd. It retains some of the basic data and tosses the rest (and appears to corrupt a few fields). Before rotation I have:
File: IMG_6427_old.JPG File size: 1,458KB Image Serial Number: 264-6427 Camera Model: Canon EOS 10D Camera serial number: 0330201671 Firmware: Firmware Version 2.0.0 Owner: Andrew Norman [email protected] Date/Time: 2006:02:01 21:43:03 Shutter speed: 2 sec Aperture: 8 Exposure mode: Av Exposure compensation: -1/2 Flash: Off Metering mode: Evaluative Drive mode: Single frame shooting ISO: 100 Lens: 17 to 40mm Focal length: 40mm Subject distance: 0.280 m AF mode: Manual focus Image size: 2048 x 3072 Rotation: none Image quality: Fine White balance: Tungsten Color space: sRGB Saturation: Normal Sharpness: Normal Contrast: Normal Tone: Normal Custom Functions: CFn 1: SET button function when shooting: Menu display CFn 2: Shutter release w/o CF card: Not possible CFn 8: RAW+JPEG mode: large, fine CFn 9: Bracket sequence: -, 0, +, Auto cancel: Enable CFn 11: Menu button display position: Previous
and after:
File: IMG_6427_end.JPG File size: 1,477KB Image Serial Number: 264-6427 Camera Model: Canon EOS 10D Camera serial number: 0330201671 Date/Time: 2006:02:01 21:43:03 Shutter speed: 2 sec Aperture: 8 Exposure mode: Auto Exposure compensation: -1/2 Flash: Off Metering mode: Center-weighted average Drive mode: Single frame shooting Self-timer: 65 secs ISO: 100 AF mode: One-shot AF Image size: 3072 x 2048 Image quality: Unknown White balance: Auto Color space: sRGB Custom Functions: Default settings
So it looks like it is fine for rotating, as long as you don't care about your EXIF data too much
I wouldn't let it near any of my photos...
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#278583 - 30/03/2006 21:33
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote: A standard Cygwin install includes "jpegtran" which supports lossless rotations. You'd need to find some other tool that understands EXIF such that you could script your rotations (and suitably change the EXIF header). Or, just install Picasa (free at picasa.google.com) and don't worry about it.
exiftran -aip image.jpg
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#278584 - 31/03/2006 08:35
Re: Windows XP picture viewer annoyance
[Re: ShadowMan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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Viewing JPEGs in Konqueror under Kubuntu, they are automatically rotated (based on EXIF?).
The best I can suggest for windows is Irfanview.
It annoys me that Microsoft, with all their resources, can't implement lossless JPEG rotation in the XP image viewer
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Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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