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#281832 - 24/05/2006 07:57 Re: Empeg future? [Re: canuckInOR]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.

Well, I'm flattered, but frankly I don't think I'm your type

Peter

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#281833 - 24/05/2006 07:59 Re: Empeg future? [Re: altman]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
Many congrats, Hugo! I hope to see your influence on the next generation car friendly ipod.

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#281834 - 24/05/2006 08:37 Re: Empeg future? [Re: altman]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
definitely - many congratulations! Get Apple sorted with a decent UI!
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Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock

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#281835 - 24/05/2006 10:14 Re: Empeg future? [Re: altman]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
We definatley need to see some kind of DIN-sized mp3 player with removable storage. Hmmmm.....

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#281836 - 24/05/2006 13:49 Re: Empeg future? [Re: peter]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Quote:
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.

Well, I'm flattered, but frankly I don't think I'm your type

Best. Response. Evar.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#281837 - 24/05/2006 14:28 Re: Empeg future? [Re: tfabris]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.

Well, I'm flattered, but frankly I don't think I'm your type

Best. Response. Evar.

Most. Expected. Response. Ever.

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#281838 - 24/05/2006 17:18 Re: Empeg future? [Re: tfabris]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Ha! No chance of that, Toby's working for us....
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

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#281839 - 24/05/2006 20:27 Re: Empeg future? [Re: Robotic]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Quote:
...and locally we should check out Tornado.


Been there, cool place. I had no idea that there are beers that, akin to a wine bar, are incredibly expensive.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#281840 - 24/05/2006 20:45 Re: Empeg future? [Re: altman]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Congrats Hugo!

Now I definitely won't be missing the bbq in July.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#281841 - 25/05/2006 07:07 Re: Empeg future? [Re: schofiel]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
I don't see how that rules anything out

Hugo

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#281842 - 25/05/2006 08:40 Re: Empeg future? [Re: mlord]
Half_Geek
member

Registered: 03/12/2002
Posts: 119
Loc: Stratdord-upon-Avon, UK

Didn't I read somewhere that the new Noble M15 had an iPod connection as standard? Is this just coincidence!?

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#281843 - 25/05/2006 08:42 Re: Empeg future? [Re: Half_Geek]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Definitely just coincidence! When the M12 was being serviced a few weeks back I asked to have a look at the M15 and got taken into the top secret area ("don't look at anything except the painted one").

The M15 definitely looks better in the flesh than in pictures, but I'm really not sure on the slab-sides at the back - the M14 was much more my taste if they'd sorted the rear lights out. The interior was ok, but again I think I preferred the M14. Definitely more boot space in the M15 - and the lower mounted engine & all the other race-bred tweaks they've put in will make it a real monster!

Hugo

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#281844 - 25/05/2006 08:58 Re: Empeg future? [Re: altman]
Half_Geek
member

Registered: 03/12/2002
Posts: 119
Loc: Stratdord-upon-Avon, UK
I would agree on the M15 back - the sharper haunches give it a very wide Testarossa-ish look to me, which is not my cup of tea. Oh to have to choose between M12s, 14s and 15s!

So, did you peek at the unpainted stuff?! And what kind of courtesy car do you get when you have a Noble serviced!!

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#281845 - 25/05/2006 12:55 Re: Empeg future? [Re: Half_Geek]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
No, I didn't peek

No courtesy car at all, in fact. Had to go and rent one (the train is so convoluted between Hinckley and Cambridge that if I'd come back that way I'd have about half an hour before I had to get the train back...). Not really excellent service from that point of view, but £24 for a rental Fiesta sport is ok!

Hugo

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#281846 - 25/05/2006 14:56 Re: Empeg future? [Re: altman]
rjf
journeyman

Registered: 30/11/2001
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
First off, congrats!

Secondly, having been an early (and continuing) fan[boy] of empeg, and an owner of 4 generations of iPod's, I have the following observation to offer...

The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features. This is the success of Jobs and company. They turned the game around. Prior to the iPod, everyone was competing with how many features they could cram into a pocket sized player. What we ended up with was players with many external switches and ports, and very complicated and intimidating user interfaces, that took a lot of care and feeding. Players perfect for engineers and serious geeks, but completely useless to the average person.

The iPod changed all that. Everytime I use my iPod and I pine for some esoteric feature that I used to have on my empeg or rio500 or whatever, I remember that it's a feature I might only use once in a blue moon, and if I kept adding each one the day to day use of my iPod would soon be unmanagable.

Good luck Hugo, I am sure you'll kick ass and we'll all reap the fruits of your labor!

Cheers,
Ron

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#281847 - 25/05/2006 18:34 Re: Empeg future? [Re: rjf]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
It's pretty easy to hide advanced configuration from the average user while still allowing the "power user" access to it.

Otherwise, I agree.

Well, except for the fact that iPods are now chock full of bells and whistles that have nothing whatsoever to do with audio playback. Pictures, calendars, videos, games, etc.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#281848 - 25/05/2006 18:45 Re: Empeg future? [Re: rjf]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Quote:
The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features

Moo.

Welcome to the herd.
_________________________
~ John

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#281849 - 25/05/2006 18:59 Re: Empeg future? [Re: JBjorgen]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Quote:

Moo.

Welcome to the herd.

Not Mooo... Baaaaah!!!
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#281850 - 25/05/2006 19:00 Re: Empeg future? [Re: JBjorgen]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I wouldn't go that far. There's some merit to what he says. Namely, the idiotic masses need something simple. And the idiotic masses outnumber us like 20 to 1, if not more. And I'm not even intending to cast aspersions. Your parents are likely in that category. Mine, too.

That doesn't make it good for the rest of us, though.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#281851 - 25/05/2006 19:18 Re: Empeg future? [Re: JBjorgen]
rjf
journeyman

Registered: 30/11/2001
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
Look around you -- you belong to a herd, it's called the human race :-)

I love this reaction to anyone who likes something that "non-technical" people like. It couldn't be that the thing is actually pretty cool and useful and brings some happiness to your life. It has to be because you are just a useless member of some "herd".

Me, I like lots of different devices, complicated and not, and I am fortunate enough to be able to both own and know how to use most of them.

My point with the post was that if someone were to add even only the top 10 requests (from this board) to the iPod, it would signficantly reduce the usability of the device, and by extension its popularity.

rjf&

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#281852 - 25/05/2006 19:28 Re: Empeg future? [Re: rjf]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
My point with the post was that if someone were to add even only the top 10 requests (from this board) to the iPod, it would signficantly reduce the usability of the device, and by extension its popularity.


Only if done poorly. I'm very much an Apple fanboy, but I don't think you'd have to impact the iPod's usability at all to improve upon it. How does adding gapless playback impact usability? How about supporting additional formats, any UI impact there?

Yeah, some of the more arcane stuff like tweak order and virtual DJ type stuff might require a little extra UI that might confuse novices, but they could just not bother with those things. I don't see how making the device do a little more necessarily has a negative impact on usability.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#281853 - 25/05/2006 19:38 Re: Empeg future? [Re: tonyc]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Hierarchical playlists, too.

There are many things like that that could be added completely transparently that would affect the UI only if you chose to use them.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#281854 - 25/05/2006 20:28 Re: Empeg future? [Re: wfaulk]
rjf
journeyman

Registered: 30/11/2001
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
I'll just point out that this is exactly how a device gets out of hand. A group of very smart people lobbying for the addition of their pet feature, claiming that if implemented properly it'll have absolutely no effect on the usability of the device for those who care nothing of the feature in question.

I definitely accept the argument that perhaps Apple went a little too far toward the pedestrian, but it was a much better choice than going too far the other way, assuming your goal is to have a widely appealing and profitable business :-)

BTW, I don't think we're really arguing, just passing the afternoon by elaborating our points -- let me know if I am mistaken.

Cheers,
rjf&

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#281855 - 25/05/2006 20:31 Re: Empeg future? [Re: rjf]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
I think that if anyone can add features without decreasing usability, Apple can.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#281856 - 25/05/2006 22:07 Re: Empeg future? [Re: rjf]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5548
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features. This is the success of Jobs and company.

Exactly.

If a company has plans to remain in business, it has to market to the masses, which is what Apple has done, and is why empeg production ceased years ago.

This is a reasonably succinct reprise of what I am saying...

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#281857 - 25/05/2006 22:48 Re: Empeg future? [Re: rjf]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
I definitely accept the argument that perhaps Apple went a little too far toward the pedestrian, but it was a much better choice than going too far the other way, assuming your goal is to have a widely appealing and profitable business :-)


I think you and I are in the same ballpark, then. I believe Apple went too far toward the pedestrian because they knew they hit a grand slam with iTunes and ITMS. Those selling points gave them the luxury to kick back and slowly perfect the iPod, rather than having to pit feature against feature and design against design.

That's just dandy, but I think it's time for them to seriously innovate. The fact that there's no gapless playback is *inexcusable*.

Quote:
BTW, I don't think we're really arguing, just passing the afternoon by elaborating our points


Without question. (Though, it's evening here already.)
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#281858 - 25/05/2006 23:23 Re: Empeg future? [Re: tanstaafl.]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Quote:
The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features. This is the success of Jobs and company.


No.

The iPod is successful because it is drop-dead beautiful to look at, and plays digital music adequately. The external visible design is what sells iPods, not the feature set or lack thereof.

The reason it lacks features is simple pure MBA stuff: this way they can spoon-feed the missing features one-by-one in subsequent upgrades, thereby reselling (almost) the same product over and over to the same people, multiplying profits. Nearly all successful businesses do that sort of thing.

Cheers

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#281859 - 25/05/2006 23:50 Re: Empeg future? [Re: mlord]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
it is drop-dead beautiful

Not until it runs Toby's visuals (my pet feature). But seriously, you're right. iPods are a fashion accessory, a brand to show off, a badge of conformity, a... baaahh.

Quote:
Nearly all successful businesses do that sort of thing.

And have always done this sort of thing. Didn't even Shakespeare and other classic authors do the same thing with their works? Sell them as installment, then in a complete folio, then a hard bound folio, then leather bound, then a compendium, etc, etc. ::cough:: Star Wars ::cough::

Let's hope they ARE perfecting the iPod and not George Lucas'ing it. "Get the special 'Black Eyed Peas' Edition iPod, with an exclusive 2 gigabyte mix of 'My Humps'" ( @ Bitt )
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#281860 - 26/05/2006 05:19 Re: Empeg future? [Re: mlord]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
iTunes is the reason why the iPod sells. Apple solved the mp3 creation problem for non-technical people and they integrated their solution seamlessly with their player.

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#281861 - 26/05/2006 05:28 Re: Empeg future? [Re: tonyc]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Personally - and this comment is with no insight apart from having been a competitor and taken apart many iPods in my time - I suspect that Apple would love gapless, but adding it to their current platform would require a lot reorganisation of the software structure.

I have to say that I've only ever managed to crash an iPod by running some USB stress tests; the player software is solid as a rock. I can believe that they don't fancy pulling it to pieces and (most likely) seriously affecting stability to add such a feature. I can believe the player engine is largely unchanged from how it was in 2001, and for that vintage it's just fine.

However, as everyone has heard (especially portalplayer's shareholders), Apple looks like they're moving platform, at least for new flash players. Given that the PP platform was, errr, unique with its twin ARM7 cores, I can believe that they'll take the opportunity to build themselves a fancy new player with all the bells and whistles. Apart from anything else, their sales now justify a major software investment, whereas the original iPod (pre iTunes, especially) was a bit of a flyer for Apple and was pretty risk-averse in its software design. Take a look at what the Mac does graphically - the beatifully scaled & anti-aliased icons, the neat transparency effects, the rotating cube user switching - these people love seamless. They love flair. I can't believe they're happy with the gaps.

Just my 2p (when it's 2c, I won't be free to give it )

Hugo

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