the blue is blue
the red is orange
the orange is green (baby puke green)
the green is?


the ar coating inhibits sight during daylight

What is going on with these colors/ the ar coating, the only real readable face so far has been the non ar blue that came with the unit.

anyone else notice that? and that the colors don't even come close to matching what they are listed as/were listed as on empeg.com?

So I gather you have seen each faceplate for yourself?

I have had 3 stages of display.

1) original green faceplate with a non-functioning VFD
--obviously, it was very difficult to read the display, nearly impossible

2) original green faceplate with a functioning VFD
--perfectly fine. once and a while was difficult to read in the sun

3) AR faceplate
--no problems what-so-ever

The green faceplate could not be easier to see.

I can't say anything about the other faceplates as I've never seen them.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

> the blue is blue

Yep, although we have been accused of Cyan.

> the red is orange

It's more red than orange, but more to the point it a) matches most (BMW/Audi/etc) red dashboards and b) is much brighter than if we made it more red

> the orange is green (baby puke green)

We don't sell an orange faceplate, but we do sell amber, and it is amber not green.

> the green is?

Very green indeed.

> the ar coating inhibits sight during daylight

Sorry to be awkward, but I don't agree with anything you say - it just isn't the case. How does the AR coating inhibit viewing? It reduces the brightness by around 4% (from memory) but if that's all it takes to make your display unreadable something else is wrong.

Rob

the ar coating inhibits sight during daylight

I'm concerned that you might have a malfunctioning VFD, or might have your dimmer turned down. Most people report having no trouble reading the face during the day. The VFD should be so bright that it hurts your eyes if you've got it at full brightness during the night.

___________
Tony Fabris

Is there anyway to get an AR faceplates now that the store is (temporarily) closed/moved to the Rio?

And besides, is it possible to order a new car mount in Europe already? The rio store seems pretty... incomplete yet - so how long will Europeans have to wait until they can place an order?
Frank

Mk2 40GB #090000592

hmm, wll at night it is legible, and you s whomever made the comment the red matched the BMW was SPOT on.. i am going to try to take a picture of the dipsplay during a hard read time, so you can see, maybe that will help..

Does anyone have a pic of their display during a sunny day?

I would hate to send off the plkayer if it just turns out i "think" it shoudl be brighter" since it will probably be gone for what 3 weeks?

one other thing, when teh dimmer is all teh way down, shoudl it be completely off, or just dim? because literally ther eis NOTHING there when i turn it down.

because literally ther eis NOTHING there when i turn it down.

I will check this when I get in the car next time. I seem to remember that even when my dimmer is all the way down, there is still some faint picture visible. I'm not certain about this, though, so don't quote me on it until I've verified it.

Here is something for you to check in the meantime:

How far down must you turn your dimmer before the image disappears completely? By the way, check this when you're viewing it in the dark so that there's no confusion caused by the daylight.

The reason I ask this is so that we can have a common reference point. Maybe I'll be able to make a FAQ entry that says something like "if the display is completely dark when you turn down your display to XX percent, then you might have a defective display".

Keeping in mind that there is some natural variation in the brightess of VFD displays. But there's a difference between "natural variation" and "defective": Your display should not be so dim that you can't read it in daylight at all.

___________
Tony Fabris

Green faceplate is indeed green (sort of long-persistence-green-analogue-radar-screen kind of green). But, if accusations of blue being cyan have any merit, it might match my Twingo's dashboard better that green I have. When I will be able to order it?

Cheers!

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Shouldn't be gone for 3 weeks, we've had players collected from the USA on monday afternoon, arrive with us on wednesday, be sent back out the same day and be back with the client before 10.30am on thursday.

I'm not saying we manage this every time (in particular, the turnaround when it's here may well be a day or 2 longer, depending on when the delivery arrives & how busy we are) but it's generally a week or less.

Hugo

I have a blue non-AR faceplate that has proven to be adequate under all circumstances. Even with the sun shining directly on the faceplate through the rear window, I can still read the screen. The sun actually illuminates the cross-hatch pattern of the display matrix, yet the data are readable.

The fact that several others have stated that their screens are absolutely, completely unreadable when lit by the sun, and still others state that their screens are unreadable in daylight even when not directly lit by the sun, leads me to suspect that there is considerable variation from player to player when it comes to screen brightness.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I have a blue non-AR faceplate that has proven to be adequate under all circumstances. Even with the sun shining directly on the faceplate through the rear window, I can still read the screen. The sun actually illuminates the cross-hatch pattern of the display matrix, yet the data are readable.

I have exactly the same thing. The blue non-AR that came with the unit was indeed blue and easy to read, the green AR is great and very easy to read.
Is it possible to test the VFD prior to installation on the assembly line. The VFD gets patched in to a test rig, is illuminated and measurments are taken. the unit is then accepted or rejected.
Tony, how about a FAQ for changing the settings of the dimmer for those who are flying blind. ie * -> -> ok ->-> etc

the other thing to try is turn the lights on and see if there is a display then. The settings may be 0% for normal and 60% for nighttime.

____________________
Murray 06000047

We hope to have this resolved straight away. Presently, our main mechanism for monetary transactions only covers North America, but the thought is that we'd have had service for the rest of the world back up weeks ago. Hang in there it is coming...

Sorry for the wait.

because literally ther eis NOTHING there when i turn it down.

This sounds like a problem to me, although I was also thinking about the variance in display brightness. I don't want to speak for Hugo, but when I was having the difficulty with my display, he mentioned that his display was very readable at the 0% level. My advice would be to contact someone at empeg directly and ask them questions.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

The display glass is tested in japan when they're actually made, there is an acceptable brightness range (a very narrow band); they are tested again (though not with anything but a visual test) when the empegs go through functional test.

The instances where people have had very dim displays turned out not to be any problem with the display glass, but with a capacitor dying in the dimmer circuit causing the display PSU to be very undervoltage.

Hugo

The instances where people have had very dim displays turned out not to be any problem with the display glass, but with a capacitor dying in the dimmer circuit causing the display PSU to be very undervoltage.

Right, I figured that if there was a problem, it would have been something small like that.

Since this seems to have come up on the BBS several times, do you think a FAQ entry is in order? I'd hate to publish a FAQ entry that increased the number of support/service calls, but I also hate to think that folks are out there complaining "the empeg is neat, but you can't read the display during the day".

I'd like to use the "0% dimmer" thing as the reference point if possible. Is that accurate? Can I say: "If you turn your dimmer down to 0%, you should still be able to faintly read the display. If not, then you might have the problem." ?

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

---

It's more red than orange, but more to the point it a) matches most (BMW/Audi/etc) red dashboards and b) is much brighter than if we made it more red

---

I can vouch for that, the red is a perfect match for my beamer. I can see though the argument of saying, why not call it BMW/Audi orange (or red) to avoid confusion. Still I am perfectly happy with it. No loss of integration with the rest of the dashboard like the fullautomatic airco (with it's led temperature and control readouts), the incar constant floodleds (the 2 orangy led that constantly burn from the ceiling giving you just that little bit of illumination you need at night), the rest of the controls like gauges, knobs and oh lets not forget the multifunctional steering wheel. I was a little worried about that. The whole original setup (before empeg install) formed a nice unified whole. The empeg did not disrupt it but fitted right in. Kudos from me on that.

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue - 080000431

I also hate to think that folks are out there complaining "the empeg is neat, but you can't read the display during the day".

I LOVE my empeg, but I can't read the display during the day. NEVER. EVER. Well, the only way I can read the display during the day is to pull over under a bridge or lean over and shield the light with my hand. I am ashamed to show to my friends unless it's dark out. Even then they say "Boy that's cool. Too bad the display isn't better". Anything less than 80% might as well be off. My faceplate is blue.

It came in the same shipment as an amber unit which was so unreadable, that the owner replaced the filter with a clear piece of plexiglass. The sun totally washes it out but you can read it in the shade.

I've been incredulous that other people are happy with their displays and have been playing with building my own (EMI coating + circular polarizer + color matched filter + AR coating).

Is there any way I can test for this broken cap? I am an EE with a lab and will be willing to pay for any damage I might cause. My empeg is nearing the end of its warranty anyway, and I have a lot of confidence in my work. Please, Hugo, anyone, tell me what to do!!!

I will scream if I send it away for a week and it comes back only 10% brighter. I'd be better off to finish my custom faceplate...

HELP!




-jim 080000260 w/18G in a Carrera

If you can't see it during the day then there is definitely something wrong!! My empeg is nice and bright. It is only when there is sunlight streaming directly onto it that it gets a little harder to read. Oh, and some sunglasses can make it hard to read too!

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 6GB blue)

Ok, this is the main thing to check:

On the back of the display board are 3 through-hole components - with the display towards you, there are 2 caps on the left and an inductor on the right. The leg of the righthand capacitor nearest the inductor is the display anode power (this is also connected to TP1, which is labelled "60V" on the PCB just below this leg).

With the display at maximum brightness, this leg/test point should be around 60v - test against ground, ie the case of the empeg - (ie, in the range 57-63v). If it's any less, the display will be dimmer than it should be. Some of the displays we had back were in the range 12-25v.

WARNING! 60V is nasty voltage, it can give you a snap! Don't run your empeg with the top off unless you really know what you're doing!

The cap in question is a 100nF one which stabilises the reference voltage for the 60v PSU switcher. It's under the display, connected to pin 5 of the MAX770 chip (near the rotary control). In all the cases we've had, this one fails for some reason and as such the display PSU goes very low; there is a patch to the PCB near here for another reason on empeg (not rio) units, which may explain why the cap has failed (too much heat when the assembler was soldering the other components on?).

Hugo

come on people play fair i have an alpine head unit and at times it is crap to read. At night on its dimmest setting it is far too bright and during the day in sunshine it can be unreadable and i live in scotland where sun ain't a big problem.

Thanks for that information, Hugo. I'll link that post in a FAQ item.

One thing, though, that I still haven't got a clear answer on, and I'd like the FAQ to cover this with certainty:

- If a player is operating normally, and you turn the dimmer down to its lowest setting, should you still see a faint display in all cases?

- If a player has the failure problem, and you turn the dimmer down to its lowest settings, will the display be blank in all cases?

___________
Tony Fabris

Oh, and a follow-up question:

When a player has this problem, about how far do you need to turn down the dimmer before the display disappears completely?

___________
Tony Fabris

My alpine is impossible to read when the sun is right on it.

Calvin

come on people play fair

I am pretty sure that the screen readability varies tremendously from one unit to another, due either to variations in manufacturing, or more likely due to failure of screen display components.

I know that there really are some empegs whose screen display literally disappears completely in daylight even if the sun is not shining directly on the screen. (These are clearly units with failed components.) And I know there really are some empegs whose screen display is readable with the sun shining directly through the rear window onto the display. (I happen to have one of those.)

I'm fortunate in that I have a unit whose display properties, day or night, are nearly perfect. (Nearly, because I happened to get one of the units whose display is mounted a little bit higher, relative to the fascia, than normal and in my particular installation the fascia blocks the top left corner of the display. This, however, is a trivial problem.) Please don't think that people who are complaining about hard to read displays are just whiners -- there are empegs out in the world that really do have display difficulties, and you can rest assured that Hugo and crew are doing whatever is required to take care of the problem.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

If it's operating normally with the display all the way down, you should be able to read the display when inside - but it's pretty faint.

If the player has a bad PSU, the brightness control doesn't have a lot of effect. You may be able to see stuff, I can't remember what the last failed one looked like when turned up/down.

Hugo

My 2p...

I just finished a cross-country trip with my player installed for the first time (fresh from repair!) At times in the sunlight, the display was unreadable but my old Pioneer unit with a really large LCD display was worse! I accept the fact that any display to compete with the sun would be kinda hard to do with today's level of technology. I just appreciate the fact that the display is sooooooo awsome at night, which is when I like to show it off anyways as a side bar, it was so cool to drive for two days and only skim the bare surface of my selections...I was only able to play about 225 songs out of the 1100 I have currently loaded...this is enough to satisfy me completely....John

Technoweenie
12 GB Blue / Red MK2

> you should be able to read the display when inside

Tricky to access the dimmer setting, when on DC power

- --
Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341

If you can't read the display in normal ambient light (and assuming you have normal eyesight) then there is no doubt that the display is faulty. In the office under flourescent lighting plus ambient daylight I can easily see a blue display across the office, approx 10 metres. You should be able to turn the dimmer all the way down and still be able to see the display easily at night and quite clearly under ambient daylight.

If this is not the case contact [email protected] and get it fixed before your warranty expires. If you follow Hugo's instructions then make sure you know what you're doing because you won't have a warranty when you've finished.

Rob

(ie, in the range 57-63v). If it's any less, the display will be dimmer than it should be. Some of the displays we had back were in the range 12-25v.

Thanks very much, Hugo. I really appreciate you being so open about this issue. Alas, my voltage sits happily at 60.3 volts. Is there anything else to check? I swear it's hard to read. When driving to lunch yesterday a friend and I were playing a game of "Can you tell when the display is on?" as I rotated through the info options. One clue that I had is that it is sensitive to the input voltage. I was running it off a lab supply from 11 to 15.5V. Sadly, I didn't write down what the display voltage range was. In my office, I run it at 15.5V and I can read the display even with sun streaming in through the slightly tinted window. Any ideas?

P.S. I really enjoyed cracking the lid of this sweet little box. It's so well designed and built! Somewhere I've seen a picture where the sides were bent wide to defeat the interlocking top/front tabs on either side. Sacrilege! A little gentle coaxing will allow the side tabs to slip between the top plate and its tabs closest to the display. No ugly bends to interfere with the docking sled.

-jim 080000260 w/18G in a Carrera

It's not very voltage specific until you get very low (ie, below 10v input).

The fact you can read it inside (with sunlight) and not outside sounds like the dimmer is turned down, but I suspect you've tried that already...

What faceplate do you have? Green is the brightest, as it is closest to the spectrum emitted by the VFD.
Hugo

Rob Voisey wrote:

> > the orange is green (baby puke green)
>We don't sell an orange faceplate, but we do sell amber, and it is amber not green.

Yep, and it matches the amber in my 85 Subaru perfectly. Looks a treat!

Anyone hooked up their empeg to an alarm with dual stage sensors so that the empeg plays at full volume an MP3 saying 'LEAVE MY CAR ALONE' when the first stage is triggered?