#297006 - 14/04/2007 00:49
Don't Be Evil ?!?!
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Don't Be Evil? What?!
On what planet is buying DoubleClick "not evil" ?
If you look up "Evil" in the dictionary, it specifically mentions DoubleClick.
At the end of Time Bandits when he warns his parents NOT to touch the Concentrated Evil, he was talking about a small piece of DoubleClick which had broken off an ad banner and fallen backward in time!
I like the Googmeisters in general, but what in the hell are they doing here?
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#297007 - 14/04/2007 01:06
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Um...I think I missed something...
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Matt
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#297008 - 14/04/2007 01:22
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Google bought Doubleclick for 3 odd billion
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#297009 - 14/04/2007 02:08
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: Shonky]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Google bought Doubleclick for 3 odd billion
But they are not Microsoft so it is all OK.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#297010 - 14/04/2007 05:14
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: jimhogan]
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addict
Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
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And Microsoft was rumored to be wanting to buy Doubleclick. So, it's possible that Google thought that the combination of Microsoft+Doubleclick would be more evil than Google+Doubleclick, and extended their "Don't be evil" credo to also mean "Make a potentially very evil situation a little less evil when time and 3 billion dollars permits".
Or, they could be buying Doubleclick just to shut them down... Not very likely, I know.
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-Aaron
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#297011 - 14/04/2007 10:03
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: adavidw]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
it's possible that Google thought that the combination of Microsoft+Doubleclick would be more evil than Google+Doubleclick
Doubleclick probably isn't "evil" by modern standards now (but *I* still firmly associate them with evil, and block them at my firewall). Anyone who installs Google toolbar, desktop, or just "preferences" for the search page, is already being tracked at least as invasively as DC ever tracked them.
You do disable cookies for Google, right.. ?
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#297012 - 14/04/2007 12:46
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Most people don't see the wolf under Google's sheep's clothing. They are no more nor no less "evil" than Microsoft or Adobe. All three of them are less evil than Walmart.
I can't get over the price. $3B. More than AMD paid for ATI. More than the (also insane) price eBay paid for Skype. Wow.
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#297013 - 14/04/2007 15:14
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
You do disable cookies for Google, right.. ?
Absotively!
Quote:
can't get over the price. $3B. More than AMD paid for ATI.
Yeah, and they got ripped off. But nVidia would have been much much more expensive. AMD definitely needed to by a graphics chip company and unfortunately for them there were only two real candidates. One good but super-expensive one, and one crappy but only very-expensive one.
AMD should have purchased nVidia 4-5 years ago, but hindsight is 20/20.
Anyway, back to DoubleClick and Google...
I read that when the bidding got to $2B, Microsoft said "too rich for my blood" and folded their hand. While Google is more like a 12-year-old who just inherited a fortune from a distant relative and is busy blowing it on candy and trinkets.
I suppose at $3B Google isn't getting very much "Evil per dollar" 
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#297014 - 15/04/2007 02:32
Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?!
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I don't work for ATI (anymore) but I still think AMD got the deal of the year for ATI. That needs to be taken in perspective of course. Based on the technology and promise the company had, I feel its stock was undervalued. NVIDIA's stock on the other hand was way overvalued. Even buying NVIDIA at the same price as ATI would have been a foolish mistake. NV is still far behind the curve where it counts for AMD - integrated and mobile graphics. They do much better than ATI with marketing and that helps pull the wool over many people's eyes, but most of their stuff is shite. I suppose AMD could have pieced-off NV and made quite a bit back...
ATI has plenty of issues on the desktop graphics side too, so don't get me wrong. NVIDIA was offered to ATI at what would now be considered a "gift" back in the Riva days. It wouldn't have been that big a deal to acquire them, but I'm not certain it would have been a good move as it would have changed the landscape in some pretty unpredictable ways. I don't know what the future will hold for AMD, but at this time I still think ATI got the short end of the stick (I don't feel they needed the buy-out and I haven't seen it grow their business in a big way yet).
Spending $2B on Skype was ludicrous, even if it has some decent buzz. Unfortunately that buzz has stolen some thunder from more meaningful (for non computer-based talking) VOIP providers.
Doubleclick still gets a lot of traffic and use by a lot of popular sites. If you have an otherwise "unlimited" pool of cash lying around I supposed "why not" spend $3B.
None of this is as mind-boggling as the amount of money being flushed down the toilet by the US government on military and defence spending year after year.
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#297015 - 16/04/2007 14:37
Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Today's News: Google plus Clear Channel something something. oh, man. must think happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts. fingers in ears. la la la la la. Quick, here are 3 things I still like about Google. - Uncluttered front page
- gmail
- Google Spreadsheet
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#297016 - 16/04/2007 14:58
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Eh, they're just buying advertising space on Clear Channel stations to resell to advertisers.
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Bitt Faulk
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#297017 - 11/05/2007 17:27
Ancillary Evil
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Bitt Faulk
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#297018 - 12/05/2007 06:17
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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addict
Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
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I'll add to that Maps/Earth  Even if a lot of what I want out of maps I get from yelp.. they do a very good google maps API overlay.
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)
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#297019 - 12/05/2007 12:03
Re: Ancillary Evil
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Wow, the synopsis of that proposal doesn't mention anything that should prevent them from operating google.cn. It seems to allow for the sensorship as a last resort, once the legal case has been established, so long as it is documented and made public. Seems totally reasonable and the right thing to do.
Personally, I've never felt Google is very much different than any other corporation, though I know a lot of people see them as some sort of white-knight company. They're here to make money in the end. Some freebies and goodwill might come along the way, but they're all going to help the bottom line in the end. Can't forget Microsoft also gave and still gives some freebies too.
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#297020 - 16/05/2007 22:29
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
oh, man. must think happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts. fingers in ears. la la la la la.
Quick, here are 3 things I still like about Google.
- Uncluttered front page
I spoke too soon.
Today a "menu bar" appeared on the Google front page.
Is this simply a well-reasoned organization of a clean and simple interface?
Or is it the first stumble on a downslide leading eventually to a front page cluttered with Flash animations of dancing wombats, 32-point red blink tags, 19 layers of frames, slow-loading cascading mouse-over menus, an embedded sound-clip, a stock ticker scrolling across the bottom, and of course, the entire search box and search button embedded inside of a Flash or Java app that you can't even access until you click through two pages of interstitial banners. (I.e., think Yahoo or Ebay)
Time will tell.
Anyway, one down, two to go.
Or as we say on this side of the Atlantic: "Steeeerike One"
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#297021 - 17/05/2007 01:19
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
Quote:
oh, man. must think happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts. fingers in ears. la la la la la.
Quick, here are 3 things I still like about Google.
- Uncluttered front page
I spoke too soon.
Today a "menu bar" appeared on the Google front page.
Is this simply a well-reasoned organization of a clean and simple interface?
Or is it the first stumble on a downslide leading eventually to a front page cluttered with Flash animations of dancing wombats, 32-point red blink tags, 19 layers of frames, slow-loading cascading mouse-over menus, an embedded sound-clip, a stock ticker scrolling across the bottom, and of course, the entire search box and search button embedded inside of a Flash or Java app that you can't even access until you click through two pages of interstitial banners. (I.e., think Yahoo or Ebay)
Time will tell.
Anyway, one down, two to go.
Or as we say on this side of the Atlantic: "Steeeerike One"
Wow. Yeah, I'm right there with ya. I can't fücking believe those evil bastards moved the "Web - Images - Groups - Etc." links from between the Google logo and the search field to the top of the screen. I'm tellin' ya, it's probably only a matter of moments until you hear the jackboots kicking in your door.
Isn't there enough negative in the world without all this "Me Too!" FUD?
_________________________
Dave
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#297022 - 17/05/2007 04:58
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: webroach]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
those evil bastards moved the "Web - Images - Groups - Etc." links from between the Google logo and the search field to the top of the screen. I'm tellin' ya, it's probably only a matter of moments until you hear the jackboots kicking in your door.
I hear ya, man! It's definitely one of the signs of the Apocalypse! 
(Something tells me I forget to put a smiley after my earlier overreaction.)
Quote:
Isn't there enough negative in the world without all this "Me Too!" FUD?
I'm not following you on this one, though. What exactly am I "me tooing"?
Hey, as far as I know there isn't exactly a large army of people joining me on my solo crusade for simpler and cleaner interfaces. Just take a quick look around at the flash-encrusted web of today. Yep, I'm pretty much an "Army of One" (whatever that means).
OK, OK, I could probably convince Edward Tufte and Jakob Nielsen to be on my side. So maybe there's as many as three of us to "me too" each other.
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#297023 - 17/05/2007 14:05
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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But what if I *like* wombats?
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#297024 - 17/05/2007 14:09
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Jakob Nielsen
Master of minimalist, usable, UGLY-ASS design.
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#297025 - 17/05/2007 14:18
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Jakob Nielsen's web site. It's certainly "UGLY-ASS". I don't know that I'd go so far as to call a nearly undifferentiated list of links "usable", though. Edward Tufte's web site. Has the potential of being better, but what with all the blurbs at the top, taking up prime real estate, and the completely undifferentiated links down the right-hand side, it turns lousy pretty quickly. He's more of a graphic artist than a web designer, though.
Edited by wfaulk (17/05/2007 14:22)
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Bitt Faulk
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#297026 - 17/05/2007 14:35
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: cushman]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Quote:
Jakob Nielsen
Master of minimalist, usable, UGLY-ASS design.
I wanted to quickly point out here that I didn't mean to imply I was on board whatsoever with Nielsens' "UGLY-ASS minimalism." Nielsen has a lot of ideas, many of them rather terrible. I only cited him because he wrote an article once called "Flash: 99% Bad". Of course, he is also apparently somewhat of an arrogant jerk by many reports. Also, after he was hired by Macromedia, he wrote an article titled "Flash: 99% Good". So you really can't place too much weight on such a self-serving weasel.
Tufte, on the other hand, I am totally on board with his books and graphic methods for books and charts. However, I'm still a little bit skeptical of any of his web prowess, since I think he still says "computer displays are not dense enough to display information well" so I suspect any of his web-related efforts are somewhat half-hearted -- though I could be wrong on that count.
Also, he was one of the first people to go on a long extended "PowerPoint Sucks" rant, so I respect that! 
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#297027 - 17/05/2007 22:33
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Hey, as far as I know there isn't exactly a large army of people joining me on my solo crusade for simpler and cleaner interfaces. Just take a quick look around at the flash-encrusted web of today. Yep, I'm pretty much an "Army of One" (whatever that means).
Oh, I don't know. I joined the Anti-Flashturbation League in 2002. Does that count?
Call me paranoid. I liked Google's links just where there were, thank you, and am not sure I like what my fervent imagination thinks that could portend.
But here's what really troubles me: If you want to tell Google you don't like the change, how exactly do you do that? I am reminded of Klaatu's ship on The Mall.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#297030 - 18/05/2007 07:17
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: webroach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Or always use your personalised Google site - make it look however you want, and with Greasmonkey and a couple of other firefox plugins you can have it entirely without ads as well if you like.
I see no evil here...
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#297031 - 18/05/2007 10:53
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Today a "menu bar" appeared on the Google front page.
I use Google constantly, but I hadn't bothered until today to even look at the front page, as I use it exclusively via a Firefox keyword. As such, they can put anything they want onto the front page. I'll never see it until someone tells me to go look at it.
That said, it seems to me moving those links to a different location on the page is merely to match it up with the rest of their services. Unsurprisingly, Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. all have them tucked away up top, out of the way and unobtrusive.
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Bitt Faulk
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#297032 - 18/05/2007 11:48
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The UK site hasn't changed, but I much prefer the new US layout. It looks even cleaner than it did before, and it was already super cleany clean clean.
Rob
Edited by rob (18/05/2007 11:49)
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#297033 - 18/05/2007 18:12
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
wfaulk: merely to match it up with the rest of their services. Unsurprisingly, Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. all have them tucked away up top, out of the way and unobtrusive.
Quote:
Rob: The UK site hasn't changed, but I much prefer the new US layout. It looks even cleaner than it did before, and it was already super cleany clean clean.
Yeah, I actually like it, too. 
And I think it was a good user interface choice, and will allow them to layer in more services in the future without adding much clutter.
My original "Oh No! A Menubar!" post was intended to be a slightly humorous and self-mocking post poking fun at my paranoia about privacy rights in general and of Google's growing tentacles in particular. And perhaps somewhat mocking my general disdain of Web 2.0 Hype and "style over substance" web design.
As such, my post failed on pretty much every count.
It wasn't very funny.
It wasn't clear I was sort of mocking my foibles.
And some people took it as a personal attack on the kind of web design they like to interact with -- or get paid to do.
No offense was intended.
And I'll try to remember that I sometimes have difficulty conveying a light-hearted tone and humorous spirit when writing for online viewing.
It's just that I live very near the Googleplex. And sometimes at night when I'm sleeping, when my Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie gets knocked slightly askew, I can feel their Brainwaves searching for me, reaching for me, taunting me....
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#297035 - 19/05/2007 00:35
Re: Supplementary Evil
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Damn, it wasn't easy... Click here for a web formMaybe there was a more direct route, but froom the initial Contact Us I had to do a big loop with no less than 10-20 clicks before I landed on that page.
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