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#301288 - 04/08/2007 15:03 The bridge collapse in Minnesota...
burdell1
old hand

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
I was amazed no one had posted about this already, but there was a major bridge that collapsed in Minnesota this week. I never assume that people in other states or other countries know about it since I live there, but it has gotten a lot of national and international coverage. The bridge was a truss bridge which means that there isn't anything in the holding the bridge up in the water, but it is on the land part of the bridge.Has anyone seen many bridges like that out there?

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#301289 - 04/08/2007 18:52 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: burdell1]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
The way it fell down is telling.

The center deck dropped, then the approaches pulled back from the piers and fell. It seems to me that there must have been some members under the road deck that were in tension. Those tensioned members if they ran from one bank to the other and were anchored, would gradually have to take more and more of the load as the other members of the truss fatigued cracked and stopped helping.

When they gave up the fight, what remained just buckled. The piers were only thick enough to hold up the bridge, not resist lateral pulls along the road direction. Indeed you would want some kind of bearing on top of the pier that would let the road bed and truss glide back and forth.

I guess we'll see if that analysis holds up when the experts make their report.

On another note. I'm beginning to suspect that Minnesotan ideas as to what constitutes bumper to bumper traffic is different from that of the SF Bay Area.
_________________________
Glenn

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#301290 - 05/08/2007 03:56 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: gbeer]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
I recently found out that the twinspan that was damaged during Katrina has to be checked and joints rewelded EVERY NIGHT! Gives me the heebies. It's a very long temporary bridge made of metal, and the stress of the day causes bolts to break free. That being said, it is a very necessary bridge and it will take a few years to complete repairs. Not to mention that the thing was erected in about a month. Fairly impressive.

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#301291 - 05/08/2007 13:33 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: burdell1]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
This tragedy caused my New Jersey government to order an inspection of each of our 6000+ bridges. The study found 700 structurally deficient bridges and 1000 obsolete bridges.

An article about NJ bridges

Guess we have to stop giving money to triple job holders and pension padders and actually fix bridges. No wait, we can pay for it by raising taxes on everything from gas to rental storage space. Way to go NJ, you sh*thole.
_________________________
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#301292 - 07/08/2007 23:31 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: burdell1]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
I also live in Minneapolis. Minneapolis actually does have fairly bad traffic, mostly due to poor road system design (several "commons" areas, several major left exists) and lack of capacity.

That bridge was "bumper to bumper" only in one direction for each rush hour. Also, the construction had a couple of lanes closed in the busy direction, so there were fewer cars on it than normal. Only 2 lanes in a single direction were "bumper to bumper" at the time. 6pm is also after the "height of rush hour" in Minneapolis, though not by much.

There are lots of bridges that don't have piers in the water. There are also truss bridges that do have piers in the water (see Wichert truss for an example). The Minneapolis bridge did have a rather long span, but my no means extraordinary. The longest steel-truss bridge that I'm aware of has a span of over 1500 ft, while the Minneapolis bridge span was under 500 ft.

I can't wait to read the NTSB report on this one. My guess is we'll hear about dated inspection techniques that failed to find fatigue fractures combined with an economic incentive to keep existing bridges for as long as possible.

Quite some time ago, I heard a book excerpt from "The Edge of Disaster" on NPR about the nation's aging infrastructure. A few months later, NPR's Talk of the Nation had an hour dedicated to "A Critical Look a the Nation's Infrastructure". Naturally, nobody cared until there was another collapse, and now there is an emotional, un-thought-out outcry to DO SOMETHING! Sort of reminds me of the airport security stupidity after 9/11.

Thanks to Bitt for teaching me how to recover this post...


Edited by TigerJimmy (07/08/2007 23:32)

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#301293 - 07/08/2007 23:51 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: FireFox31]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
Quote:
This tragedy caused my New Jersey government to order an inspection of each of our 6000+ bridges. The study found 700 structurally deficient bridges and 1000 obsolete bridges.

An article about NJ bridges

Guess we have to stop giving money to triple job holders and pension padders and actually fix bridges. No wait, we can pay for it by raising taxes on everything from gas to rental storage space. Way to go NJ, you sh*thole.


Hey, I wonder how many days we'd have to not be in Iraq to fund it.

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#301294 - 08/08/2007 00:32 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: Daria]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:
This tragedy caused my New Jersey government to order an inspection of each of our 6000+ bridges. The study found 700 structurally deficient bridges and 1000 obsolete bridges.

An article about NJ bridges

Guess we have to stop giving money to triple job holders and pension padders and actually fix bridges. No wait, we can pay for it by raising taxes on everything from gas to rental storage space. Way to go NJ, you sh*thole.


Hey, I wonder how many days we'd have to not be in Iraq to fund it.


s/days/hours/ ??

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#301295 - 08/08/2007 01:11 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: mlord]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This tragedy caused my New Jersey government to order an inspection of each of our 6000+ bridges. The study found 700 structurally deficient bridges and 1000 obsolete bridges.

An article about NJ bridges

Guess we have to stop giving money to triple job holders and pension padders and actually fix bridges. No wait, we can pay for it by raising taxes on everything from gas to rental storage space. Way to go NJ, you sh*thole.


Hey, I wonder how many days we'd have to not be in Iraq to fund it.


s/days/hours/ ??


Eh, there are a lot of theoretically deficient bridges...

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#301296 - 08/08/2007 03:02 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: Daria]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
Eh, there are a lot of theoretically deficient bridges...

Yeah, and they all happen to be in Newark.

Oh wait, "Mayor for life" Sharp James isn't Mayor anymore. Now he's busy going to jail for pawning off land and handing out no-bid contracts.
_________________________
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#301297 - 08/08/2007 10:51 Re: The bridge collapse in Minnesota... [Re: FireFox31]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
Quote:
Quote:
Eh, there are a lot of theoretically deficient bridges...

Yeah, and they all happen to be in Newark.

Oh wait, "Mayor for life" Sharp James isn't Mayor anymore. Now he's busy going to jail for pawning off land and handing out no-bid contracts.


So http://www.dot.state.pa.us/PENNDOT/Distr...d3?OpenDocument

this bridge which is nearby and has been crumbling for years is in Newark now?

Excellent! Pittsburgh to New York wormhole!

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