#301519 - 16/08/2007 14:57
Looking for a new notebook
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Well my 3.5 year old Inspiron 9100 crapped out and I think its time for a new notebook. That sucker weighed 12 pounds! It was a great at the time because I had basically wanted a portable gaming machine but now the priorities are a little different. I'm looking for something pretty small, in the 12-13" screen size range. Basically I'll be using it for general nerdish computer use. It should be able to play older games (such as BF1942, BF2) but I'm pretty sure most of the models I'll be looking at will be able to. Other main criteria are a nice screen and lots of ram. The only one I've given significant consideration to so far is the Dell M1310. This thing is sort of stunning and all of the reviews I've read have basically given it high marks, the only real concern being that with the 9 cell battery it comes in at about 5 lbs. The following M1310 setup comes in at $1,934: Crimson Red Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7300 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache) Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz Speed: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive) 128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS Intel® 3945 802.11a/g Mini-card 85Whr Lithium Ion Battery (9 cell) High Definition Audio 2.0 4 gigs of ram can be had on Newegg for about $250. Also, I could save significantly by going with one of the lesser processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5250 (2MB cache/1.5GHz/667Mhz FSB) [subtract $175] Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7100 (2MB cache/1.8GHz/800Mhz FSB) [subtract $75]. So my questions are: 1) I have no idea what the performance gain is between the 667 FSB vs. the 800Mhz FSB and the 2mb of Cache vs. the 4mb of Cache. Obviously more is better but would I get more bang for my buck by upgrading my ram? Is upgrading both overkill? Its not like I'm going to be editing video or anything like that but I will have this thing for the next 5 years. 2) Can anyone recommend any other models? The great thing about the Dell is with the XPS they offer 1 year no interest financing which is a pretty attractive offer to me right now. I could go with another Inspiron and basically save about $1k but those, although nice, are a lot larger. Thanks for any input.
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#301520 - 16/08/2007 16:04
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Well my 3.5 year old Inspiron 9100 crapped out and I think its time for a new notebook. That sucker weighed 12 pounds!
My old old laptop was an Inspiron 9000 so yeah, I know exactly what you mean!
Quote:
It was a great at the time because I had basically wanted a portable gaming machine but now the priorities are a little different. I'm looking for something pretty small, in the 12-13" screen size range. Basically I'll be using it for general nerdish computer use. It should be able to play older games (such as BF1942, BF2) but I'm pretty sure most of the models I'll be looking at will be able to. Other main criteria are a nice screen and lots of ram.
I bought an aircraft carrier deck sized VAIO in the mean time but the features you listed are what I look for now. My work laptop is a slim VAIO SZ-3HP and it is pretty nice. Small, light, mostly made out of metal, very nice screen and a Core 2 Duo.
I say get 2GB of RAM at least. Vista on 1GB is going to suck. Unless you're running 64 bit Vista then don't bother trying to install more than 3GB of RAM. It won't work.
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#301521 - 16/08/2007 16:06
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: tman]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Oh I'm definitely going to get at least 2 gigs with whichever system I choose. Its just if I go with the Dell, I think I'm going to buy the ram somewhere else. They charge $450 for 4 gigs!
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#301522 - 16/08/2007 16:12
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Oh I'm definitely going to get at least 2 gigs with whichever system I choose. Its just if I go with the Dell, I think I'm going to buy the ram somewhere else. They charge $450 for 4 gigs!
Yeah. Never buy the RAM from the actual manufacturer of the machine. The markup is insane!
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#301523 - 16/08/2007 16:22
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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For that price, you could get 2.2GHz MacBook Pro, which can still run Windows and beats the Dell on almost every spec.
(This replaces an insanely detailed post that got eaten by the BBS)
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Dave
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#301524 - 16/08/2007 16:58
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: webroach]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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The last time I used a mac for more than 5 minutes was in 7th grade in the computer lab. I haven't given it much consideration but there is an apple store at the mall across the street from work and I think I'm going to stop by on my lunch. I'm a bit intimidated by the learning curve to be honest, but the MacBook shall be considered.
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#301525 - 16/08/2007 17:31
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Quote:
Its just if I go with the Dell, I think I'm going to buy the ram somewhere else. They charge $450 for 4 gigs!
Yeah. Never buy the RAM from the actual manufacturer of the machine. The markup is insane!
Usually, you can buy the memory from Dell as an accessory and pay a reasonable amount of money for it. It's only when you have them install it for you that the price skyrockets. In addition, if you buy it as an accessory, you get a lifetime warranty. If you get it as part of the computer, you only get the warranty that comes with the computer.
For example, a Dell branded 2GB module for the M1330 is $210.99, but upgrading from a 2GB configuration to a 4GB configuration is $375.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301526 - 16/08/2007 17:32
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
The last time I used a mac for more than 5 minutes was in 7th grade in the computer lab.
I had a very similar experience, I went from loathing them to loving them. Although I think OS X had a major role in that....
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#301527 - 16/08/2007 17:33
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
(This replaces an insanely detailed post that got eaten by the BBS)
How to recover a lost post
Come on, folks. It'll take you 5 minutes.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301528 - 16/08/2007 17:53
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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If you do get a Mac, make sure to grab VMWare Fusion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIApJMzGzDQSo far for me, it's been a great way to run most Windows apps when needed. For the games, I boot into Windows if necessary, but a surprising number exist for OS X, and EA is supposed to be bringing more over.
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#301529 - 16/08/2007 18:09
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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$2,154 for the MacBook Pro.
* 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
* 120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
* Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
* Accessory Kit
Its a damn sweet looking machine. I'll be losing the 7200 rpm hard drive, but the graphics card is a little nicer and I'd get a larger screen. Its a tiny bit thicker than the M1330 and about half a pound heavier.
Okay so I just watched that video and VMWare Fusion does look pretty convenient. Is it really that simple though? Running both OS's doesn't slow things down? This program would make switching over a lot more convenient but I'm still a little hesitant.
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#301530 - 16/08/2007 18:35
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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I picked up a Kingston 2Gb SODIMM for £70 from www.ebuyer.comedit: It's gone up slightly, product is this
Edited by g_attrill (16/08/2007 18:36)
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#301531 - 16/08/2007 19:21
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 598
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Okay so I just watched that video and VMWare Fusion does look pretty convenient. Is it really that simple though? Running both OS's doesn't slow things down? This program would make switching over a lot more convenient but I'm still a little hesitant.
Boot Camp lets you dual boot and Parallels lets you run Linux or Windows in a virtual session while still using OSX.
I've got a friend that loads up EVE Online to just change skills or other simple things via Parallels. If he plans on doing anything else in the game he reboots into Windows via Boot Camp.
Also check out some of the video's on Youtube about Parallels.
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Chad
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#301532 - 16/08/2007 19:22
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Can you use the same Windows installation with Boot Camp and Parallels (or VMWare), or do you have to install twice?
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Bitt Faulk
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#301533 - 16/08/2007 19:25
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 598
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Can you use the same Windows installation with Boot Camp and Parallels (or VMWare), or do you have to install twice?
Boot Camp and Parallels 3.0 can share the same Windows install. I don't know about VMWare.
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Chad
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#301534 - 16/08/2007 20:20
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I'll be losing the 7200 rpm hard drive, but the graphics card is a little nicer and I'd get a larger screen. Its a tiny bit thicker than the M1330 and about half a pound heavier.
You can get a 7200 drive in the MacBook Pro, you will need to do a custom order though either at the store, or at apple.com. And the video card is much nicer. Don't let the model numbers fool you, the card in the Dell is just a smidge above integrated graphics performance (it even still shares the main system memory), while the MacBook Pro has a full dedicated card. My MBP has been my main gaming machine now for a bit over 1.5 years.
Quote:
Okay so I just watched that video and VMWare Fusion does look pretty convenient. Is it really that simple though? Running both OS's doesn't slow things down? This program would make switching over a lot more convenient but I'm still a little hesitant.
VMWare and Parallels are both pretty much "that simple". Both offer hands free XP installs where you give it a CD or ISO file, and a CD key and walk away. Then both offer seamless modes where OS X and Windows apps mingle. As long as you have enough RAM to avoid swapping to disk, performance is really fast. I personally prefer VMWare for the 64 bit compatibility, SMP, and better USB support, but Parallels leads in some other areas like games. However, unless it's a really old game, it's not going to be fully playable in Parallels or VMWare. You will need to do a full boot into Windows. Both solutions can also boot off a Windows partition on your Mac created by Boot Camp, so you don't have to have 2 separate installs.
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#301535 - 16/08/2007 21:09
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Just in case you need more convincing.... Get the Mac. You can run Windows all day on it and slowly transition to Mac OS. Or jump right into Mac OS and run Windows virtualized only when you need to.
The OS learning curve is there simply because it's a bit different, not because it's any harder. When it comes to picking a desktop, the choice in machines can be a little more complicated, but in a portable, not much out there can get close to a Mac Book or Mac Book Pro on value versus specs and versatility.
I only wish I could afford a new Mac right now. I'll be using my current PowerBook until at least the next MBP revision. It's now 3 years old and still running like a champ though.
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#301536 - 16/08/2007 21:21
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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The best advice I was ever given was figure out what software you want, then choose the machine.
I like mac's but, unless this is going to be a desktop replacement, the most important spec is heat generated. Especially in the class you are looking at.
They never spec that so the only way I've found is to look at the machines label and see how many watt's it consumes.
The added advantage of a low wattage machine is that it will run longer on a given battery.
A 1.6GHz machine is fine for anything that isn't number crunch intensive.
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Glenn
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#301537 - 16/08/2007 22:20
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
The best advice I was ever given was figure out what software you want, then choose the machine.
Or, in the case of a laptop, it's also fair game to start with the needs (road warrior / light weight vs. desktop replacement / gaming rig). I'm all about the subnotebook world. I'm currently using a 3.5 pound Lenovo X41 Tablet (~2 years old). It does the job, but I only rarely actually use the tablet functionality. It's not worth the extra pound in weight over the non-tablet versions of the same machine.
If my laptop was consumed in a ball of fire tomorrow, I'd be considering the Lenovo X61 (non-tablet) as well as the swank Sony TZ. The TZ is offered with a 32GB flash disk. In Japan (but not the U.S.), you can order it with the DVD drive replaced with a hard drive. Flash drive + hard drive. That's pretty cool. My hope is that my present laptop survives long enough for the mythical Apple subnotebook to be released. Apple has clearly gone on a "thin is good" campaign -- just have a look at their new keyboards. If they can produce something comparable to the Sony TZ (or even better, to the 1.89 pound Sony G1), then I'd probably be lining up to get one.
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#301538 - 16/08/2007 22:59
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Quote:
If they can produce something comparable to the Sony TZ (or even better, to the 1.89 pound Sony G1), then I'd probably be lining up to get one.
It's not really a matter of "can" but rather "will" - it's all about market with Apple. Everything they make has a very large (potential) target market. At least that's their aim. They also like to keep a small product line. Then there are quality standards to consider, which are at least 200% higher than any other notebook maker. They didn't abandon the G5 PowerBook nor 1920 and 1600 displays notebook designs earlier because they couldn't make them. I saw and used them in final casings. They did it because the products just weren't good enough with that component mix. Too hot, too short battery life, not as thin as they wanted, etc...
Why do you think it took so long to produce the iPhone? The pieces they required to achieve the quality level they wanted just weren't there. Good thing they didn't wait around for a more efficient 3G radio.
The only reasons not to get an Apple notebook these days (IMO) are if you have requirements for a smaller/lighter product or you want to buy a super-low-priced notebook. Macs are cheaper than similar products from Dell and others, but those producers still make ultra low-end models at more atractive price points. Notice I didn't say "economic" prices - in the long run they may not be.
I don't think I'll ever order Dell anything ever again. Just visiting their web site is almost enough to want to drive your car off a cliff.
My recommendation to my fiancee who was ordering a non-Mac notebook for one of her employees was a Lenovo. After I having said "get a Mac anyway." 
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#301539 - 17/08/2007 00:07
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14478
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
$2,154 for the MacBook Pro.
Only one button on the touchpad though.
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#301540 - 17/08/2007 00:26
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Two (I say two) fingers down on the pad and click for RMB. Much easier than using an actual second button, IMO. But I haven't tried it in Windows where you can also drag with RMB. Mac OS doesn't support RMB-drag (wish it did though).
All things considered, I'm quite surprised Apple hasn't done something about the singular button yet. Their Mighty Mouse has two buttons. Well, technically it has no buttons, but each side of the mouse clicks as either LMB or RMB. I wouldn't mind seeing a single button on under the pad but where you could configure clicking on the right side to be a different click than the left side.
I suppose you could also configure the button to be RMB-only and use the pad for LMB when tapped. Personally I hate pad-tapping, so I wouldn't consider than option for my own use.
The OS does support mice with pretty much any number of buttons (at least 9 or 10) if you want to use an external device.
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#301541 - 17/08/2007 00:33
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It is still awkward for those of us who are accustomed to three buttons as the bare minimum.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301542 - 17/08/2007 00:55
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Hahahahha.
Consequently, the last time I used a three button mouse was also in the 7th grade. It was this weird beige color.
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#301544 - 17/08/2007 01:01
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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old hand
Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
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I noticed earlier today that my local supermarket was selling a 3 button mouse that had left and right buttons plus a middle button/scroll wheel. They described it as a 3 button mouse -- that's "2 button" to me but perhaps that's what Bitt's referring to?
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#301545 - 17/08/2007 01:02
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: AndrewT]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I think he's talking about a real 3-button mouse as used in a lot of CAD scenarios. And I hear some people using some Linux something or other use them too.
I still remember when a mouse had no buttons at all. Just 11 herbs and spices and a delicious crispy coating.
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#301546 - 17/08/2007 01:44
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: AndrewT]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Actually, the first mice(?) I used extensively were ones attached to a DECstation. You can't get much more 3-button than those.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301547 - 17/08/2007 05:49
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
The only reasons not to get an Apple notebook these days (IMO) are if you have requirements for a smaller/lighter product or you want to buy a super-low-priced notebook. Macs are cheaper than similar products from Dell and others
I don't think that is true, at least for very similar if not identical specs. I just speced a Dell D630 to a similar level as the 15 inch MacBook Pro, they both have the same CPU, both have a GPU with 128MB dedicated RAM (not sure if the Dell can do dual-link DVI), the Dell has a faster hard disk, same size screen, DVD, wifi, bluetooth etc etc
For the record, things that the Dell doesn't have include:
- Mag safe power cord
- Firewire
- backlight keyboard
- DVI socket, at least not without a docking station (a pretty big omission admittedly  )
The Dell comes out at $1,589, the Apple at $1,999, the Dell includes 3 year warranty, accidental damage cover and support.
I'm quite sure that the MacBook is a more lovely piece of hardware and they are definitely much closer price now than the used to be, but the Dell is still cheaper than the Apple.
My current laptop is a three year old Dell D600, which is still going strong. My next laptop will either be a Dell D630, MacBook Pro or Lenovo X60.
N.B. the Lenovo doesn't have a DVI socket either, which is a bit of a shame. That said with a decent VGA output and a decent monitor is it is hard to tell the difference between DVI and VGA (I've been using my Dell via VGA into my 1600x1200 for the last few days I forgot that I was using VGA and not DVI).
Quote:
I don't think I'll ever order Dell anything ever again. Just visiting their web site is almost enough to want to drive your car off a cliff.
Couldn't agree with you more on that one...
Edited by andy (17/08/2007 06:10)
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#301548 - 17/08/2007 06:29
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Bizarrely, I actually found buying my last Dell very easy from the website. Almost one click per optional upgrade, and then support is really easy via asset tag: I log in and it tells me which driver patches are available and how urgent they are. I wouldn't have gone for a Dell usually, but they just made things so cheap and easy - even beating my usual supplier (Dabs)
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Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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