#301519 - 16/08/2007 14:57
Looking for a new notebook
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Well my 3.5 year old Inspiron 9100 crapped out and I think its time for a new notebook. That sucker weighed 12 pounds! It was a great at the time because I had basically wanted a portable gaming machine but now the priorities are a little different. I'm looking for something pretty small, in the 12-13" screen size range. Basically I'll be using it for general nerdish computer use. It should be able to play older games (such as BF1942, BF2) but I'm pretty sure most of the models I'll be looking at will be able to. Other main criteria are a nice screen and lots of ram. The only one I've given significant consideration to so far is the Dell M1310. This thing is sort of stunning and all of the reviews I've read have basically given it high marks, the only real concern being that with the 9 cell battery it comes in at about 5 lbs. The following M1310 setup comes in at $1,934: Crimson Red Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7300 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache) Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz Speed: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive) 128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS Intel® 3945 802.11a/g Mini-card 85Whr Lithium Ion Battery (9 cell) High Definition Audio 2.0 4 gigs of ram can be had on Newegg for about $250. Also, I could save significantly by going with one of the lesser processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5250 (2MB cache/1.5GHz/667Mhz FSB) [subtract $175] Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7100 (2MB cache/1.8GHz/800Mhz FSB) [subtract $75]. So my questions are: 1) I have no idea what the performance gain is between the 667 FSB vs. the 800Mhz FSB and the 2mb of Cache vs. the 4mb of Cache. Obviously more is better but would I get more bang for my buck by upgrading my ram? Is upgrading both overkill? Its not like I'm going to be editing video or anything like that but I will have this thing for the next 5 years. 2) Can anyone recommend any other models? The great thing about the Dell is with the XPS they offer 1 year no interest financing which is a pretty attractive offer to me right now. I could go with another Inspiron and basically save about $1k but those, although nice, are a lot larger. Thanks for any input.
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#301520 - 16/08/2007 16:04
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Well my 3.5 year old Inspiron 9100 crapped out and I think its time for a new notebook. That sucker weighed 12 pounds!
My old old laptop was an Inspiron 9000 so yeah, I know exactly what you mean!
Quote:
It was a great at the time because I had basically wanted a portable gaming machine but now the priorities are a little different. I'm looking for something pretty small, in the 12-13" screen size range. Basically I'll be using it for general nerdish computer use. It should be able to play older games (such as BF1942, BF2) but I'm pretty sure most of the models I'll be looking at will be able to. Other main criteria are a nice screen and lots of ram.
I bought an aircraft carrier deck sized VAIO in the mean time but the features you listed are what I look for now. My work laptop is a slim VAIO SZ-3HP and it is pretty nice. Small, light, mostly made out of metal, very nice screen and a Core 2 Duo.
I say get 2GB of RAM at least. Vista on 1GB is going to suck. Unless you're running 64 bit Vista then don't bother trying to install more than 3GB of RAM. It won't work.
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#301521 - 16/08/2007 16:06
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: tman]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Oh I'm definitely going to get at least 2 gigs with whichever system I choose. Its just if I go with the Dell, I think I'm going to buy the ram somewhere else. They charge $450 for 4 gigs!
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#301522 - 16/08/2007 16:12
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Oh I'm definitely going to get at least 2 gigs with whichever system I choose. Its just if I go with the Dell, I think I'm going to buy the ram somewhere else. They charge $450 for 4 gigs!
Yeah. Never buy the RAM from the actual manufacturer of the machine. The markup is insane!
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#301523 - 16/08/2007 16:22
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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For that price, you could get 2.2GHz MacBook Pro, which can still run Windows and beats the Dell on almost every spec.
(This replaces an insanely detailed post that got eaten by the BBS)
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Dave
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#301524 - 16/08/2007 16:58
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: webroach]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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The last time I used a mac for more than 5 minutes was in 7th grade in the computer lab. I haven't given it much consideration but there is an apple store at the mall across the street from work and I think I'm going to stop by on my lunch. I'm a bit intimidated by the learning curve to be honest, but the MacBook shall be considered.
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#301525 - 16/08/2007 17:31
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Quote:
Its just if I go with the Dell, I think I'm going to buy the ram somewhere else. They charge $450 for 4 gigs!
Yeah. Never buy the RAM from the actual manufacturer of the machine. The markup is insane!
Usually, you can buy the memory from Dell as an accessory and pay a reasonable amount of money for it. It's only when you have them install it for you that the price skyrockets. In addition, if you buy it as an accessory, you get a lifetime warranty. If you get it as part of the computer, you only get the warranty that comes with the computer.
For example, a Dell branded 2GB module for the M1330 is $210.99, but upgrading from a 2GB configuration to a 4GB configuration is $375.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301526 - 16/08/2007 17:32
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
The last time I used a mac for more than 5 minutes was in 7th grade in the computer lab.
I had a very similar experience, I went from loathing them to loving them. Although I think OS X had a major role in that....
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#301527 - 16/08/2007 17:33
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
(This replaces an insanely detailed post that got eaten by the BBS)
How to recover a lost post
Come on, folks. It'll take you 5 minutes.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301528 - 16/08/2007 17:53
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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If you do get a Mac, make sure to grab VMWare Fusion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIApJMzGzDQSo far for me, it's been a great way to run most Windows apps when needed. For the games, I boot into Windows if necessary, but a surprising number exist for OS X, and EA is supposed to be bringing more over.
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#301529 - 16/08/2007 18:09
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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$2,154 for the MacBook Pro.
* 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
* 120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
* Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
* Accessory Kit
Its a damn sweet looking machine. I'll be losing the 7200 rpm hard drive, but the graphics card is a little nicer and I'd get a larger screen. Its a tiny bit thicker than the M1330 and about half a pound heavier.
Okay so I just watched that video and VMWare Fusion does look pretty convenient. Is it really that simple though? Running both OS's doesn't slow things down? This program would make switching over a lot more convenient but I'm still a little hesitant.
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#301530 - 16/08/2007 18:35
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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I picked up a Kingston 2Gb SODIMM for £70 from www.ebuyer.comedit: It's gone up slightly, product is this
Edited by g_attrill (16/08/2007 18:36)
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#301531 - 16/08/2007 19:21
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Okay so I just watched that video and VMWare Fusion does look pretty convenient. Is it really that simple though? Running both OS's doesn't slow things down? This program would make switching over a lot more convenient but I'm still a little hesitant.
Boot Camp lets you dual boot and Parallels lets you run Linux or Windows in a virtual session while still using OSX.
I've got a friend that loads up EVE Online to just change skills or other simple things via Parallels. If he plans on doing anything else in the game he reboots into Windows via Boot Camp.
Also check out some of the video's on Youtube about Parallels.
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Chad
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#301532 - 16/08/2007 19:22
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Can you use the same Windows installation with Boot Camp and Parallels (or VMWare), or do you have to install twice?
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Bitt Faulk
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#301533 - 16/08/2007 19:25
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Can you use the same Windows installation with Boot Camp and Parallels (or VMWare), or do you have to install twice?
Boot Camp and Parallels 3.0 can share the same Windows install. I don't know about VMWare.
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Chad
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#301534 - 16/08/2007 20:20
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I'll be losing the 7200 rpm hard drive, but the graphics card is a little nicer and I'd get a larger screen. Its a tiny bit thicker than the M1330 and about half a pound heavier.
You can get a 7200 drive in the MacBook Pro, you will need to do a custom order though either at the store, or at apple.com. And the video card is much nicer. Don't let the model numbers fool you, the card in the Dell is just a smidge above integrated graphics performance (it even still shares the main system memory), while the MacBook Pro has a full dedicated card. My MBP has been my main gaming machine now for a bit over 1.5 years.
Quote:
Okay so I just watched that video and VMWare Fusion does look pretty convenient. Is it really that simple though? Running both OS's doesn't slow things down? This program would make switching over a lot more convenient but I'm still a little hesitant.
VMWare and Parallels are both pretty much "that simple". Both offer hands free XP installs where you give it a CD or ISO file, and a CD key and walk away. Then both offer seamless modes where OS X and Windows apps mingle. As long as you have enough RAM to avoid swapping to disk, performance is really fast. I personally prefer VMWare for the 64 bit compatibility, SMP, and better USB support, but Parallels leads in some other areas like games. However, unless it's a really old game, it's not going to be fully playable in Parallels or VMWare. You will need to do a full boot into Windows. Both solutions can also boot off a Windows partition on your Mac created by Boot Camp, so you don't have to have 2 separate installs.
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#301535 - 16/08/2007 21:09
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Just in case you need more convincing.... Get the Mac. You can run Windows all day on it and slowly transition to Mac OS. Or jump right into Mac OS and run Windows virtualized only when you need to.
The OS learning curve is there simply because it's a bit different, not because it's any harder. When it comes to picking a desktop, the choice in machines can be a little more complicated, but in a portable, not much out there can get close to a Mac Book or Mac Book Pro on value versus specs and versatility.
I only wish I could afford a new Mac right now. I'll be using my current PowerBook until at least the next MBP revision. It's now 3 years old and still running like a champ though.
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#301536 - 16/08/2007 21:21
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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The best advice I was ever given was figure out what software you want, then choose the machine.
I like mac's but, unless this is going to be a desktop replacement, the most important spec is heat generated. Especially in the class you are looking at.
They never spec that so the only way I've found is to look at the machines label and see how many watt's it consumes.
The added advantage of a low wattage machine is that it will run longer on a given battery.
A 1.6GHz machine is fine for anything that isn't number crunch intensive.
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Glenn
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#301537 - 16/08/2007 22:20
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
The best advice I was ever given was figure out what software you want, then choose the machine.
Or, in the case of a laptop, it's also fair game to start with the needs (road warrior / light weight vs. desktop replacement / gaming rig). I'm all about the subnotebook world. I'm currently using a 3.5 pound Lenovo X41 Tablet (~2 years old). It does the job, but I only rarely actually use the tablet functionality. It's not worth the extra pound in weight over the non-tablet versions of the same machine.
If my laptop was consumed in a ball of fire tomorrow, I'd be considering the Lenovo X61 (non-tablet) as well as the swank Sony TZ. The TZ is offered with a 32GB flash disk. In Japan (but not the U.S.), you can order it with the DVD drive replaced with a hard drive. Flash drive + hard drive. That's pretty cool. My hope is that my present laptop survives long enough for the mythical Apple subnotebook to be released. Apple has clearly gone on a "thin is good" campaign -- just have a look at their new keyboards. If they can produce something comparable to the Sony TZ (or even better, to the 1.89 pound Sony G1), then I'd probably be lining up to get one.
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#301538 - 16/08/2007 22:59
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Quote:
If they can produce something comparable to the Sony TZ (or even better, to the 1.89 pound Sony G1), then I'd probably be lining up to get one.
It's not really a matter of "can" but rather "will" - it's all about market with Apple. Everything they make has a very large (potential) target market. At least that's their aim. They also like to keep a small product line. Then there are quality standards to consider, which are at least 200% higher than any other notebook maker. They didn't abandon the G5 PowerBook nor 1920 and 1600 displays notebook designs earlier because they couldn't make them. I saw and used them in final casings. They did it because the products just weren't good enough with that component mix. Too hot, too short battery life, not as thin as they wanted, etc...
Why do you think it took so long to produce the iPhone? The pieces they required to achieve the quality level they wanted just weren't there. Good thing they didn't wait around for a more efficient 3G radio.
The only reasons not to get an Apple notebook these days (IMO) are if you have requirements for a smaller/lighter product or you want to buy a super-low-priced notebook. Macs are cheaper than similar products from Dell and others, but those producers still make ultra low-end models at more atractive price points. Notice I didn't say "economic" prices - in the long run they may not be.
I don't think I'll ever order Dell anything ever again. Just visiting their web site is almost enough to want to drive your car off a cliff.
My recommendation to my fiancee who was ordering a non-Mac notebook for one of her employees was a Lenovo. After I having said "get a Mac anyway." 
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#301539 - 17/08/2007 00:07
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
$2,154 for the MacBook Pro.
Only one button on the touchpad though.
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#301540 - 17/08/2007 00:26
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Two (I say two) fingers down on the pad and click for RMB. Much easier than using an actual second button, IMO. But I haven't tried it in Windows where you can also drag with RMB. Mac OS doesn't support RMB-drag (wish it did though).
All things considered, I'm quite surprised Apple hasn't done something about the singular button yet. Their Mighty Mouse has two buttons. Well, technically it has no buttons, but each side of the mouse clicks as either LMB or RMB. I wouldn't mind seeing a single button on under the pad but where you could configure clicking on the right side to be a different click than the left side.
I suppose you could also configure the button to be RMB-only and use the pad for LMB when tapped. Personally I hate pad-tapping, so I wouldn't consider than option for my own use.
The OS does support mice with pretty much any number of buttons (at least 9 or 10) if you want to use an external device.
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#301541 - 17/08/2007 00:33
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It is still awkward for those of us who are accustomed to three buttons as the bare minimum.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301542 - 17/08/2007 00:55
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Hahahahha.
Consequently, the last time I used a three button mouse was also in the 7th grade. It was this weird beige color.
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#301544 - 17/08/2007 01:01
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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old hand
Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
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I noticed earlier today that my local supermarket was selling a 3 button mouse that had left and right buttons plus a middle button/scroll wheel. They described it as a 3 button mouse -- that's "2 button" to me but perhaps that's what Bitt's referring to?
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#301545 - 17/08/2007 01:02
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: AndrewT]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I think he's talking about a real 3-button mouse as used in a lot of CAD scenarios. And I hear some people using some Linux something or other use them too.
I still remember when a mouse had no buttons at all. Just 11 herbs and spices and a delicious crispy coating.
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#301546 - 17/08/2007 01:44
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: AndrewT]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Actually, the first mice(?) I used extensively were ones attached to a DECstation. You can't get much more 3-button than those.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301547 - 17/08/2007 05:49
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
The only reasons not to get an Apple notebook these days (IMO) are if you have requirements for a smaller/lighter product or you want to buy a super-low-priced notebook. Macs are cheaper than similar products from Dell and others
I don't think that is true, at least for very similar if not identical specs. I just speced a Dell D630 to a similar level as the 15 inch MacBook Pro, they both have the same CPU, both have a GPU with 128MB dedicated RAM (not sure if the Dell can do dual-link DVI), the Dell has a faster hard disk, same size screen, DVD, wifi, bluetooth etc etc
For the record, things that the Dell doesn't have include:
- Mag safe power cord
- Firewire
- backlight keyboard
- DVI socket, at least not without a docking station (a pretty big omission admittedly  )
The Dell comes out at $1,589, the Apple at $1,999, the Dell includes 3 year warranty, accidental damage cover and support.
I'm quite sure that the MacBook is a more lovely piece of hardware and they are definitely much closer price now than the used to be, but the Dell is still cheaper than the Apple.
My current laptop is a three year old Dell D600, which is still going strong. My next laptop will either be a Dell D630, MacBook Pro or Lenovo X60.
N.B. the Lenovo doesn't have a DVI socket either, which is a bit of a shame. That said with a decent VGA output and a decent monitor is it is hard to tell the difference between DVI and VGA (I've been using my Dell via VGA into my 1600x1200 for the last few days I forgot that I was using VGA and not DVI).
Quote:
I don't think I'll ever order Dell anything ever again. Just visiting their web site is almost enough to want to drive your car off a cliff.
Couldn't agree with you more on that one...
Edited by andy (17/08/2007 06:10)
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#301548 - 17/08/2007 06:29
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Bizarrely, I actually found buying my last Dell very easy from the website. Almost one click per optional upgrade, and then support is really easy via asset tag: I log in and it tells me which driver patches are available and how urgent they are. I wouldn't have gone for a Dell usually, but they just made things so cheap and easy - even beating my usual supplier (Dabs)
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#301549 - 17/08/2007 08:25
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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The only other annoying thing about the MBP in Windows is a lack of tap-to-click, although I suspect this is a driver issue, it wasn't fixed in Boot Camp 1.4 but I hope it will be soon. Also the MBP runs insanely hot, I haven't decided whether to strip down and reapply the heatsink grease, but since the case is the heatsink and it is getting hot surely means it is doing it's job.
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#301550 - 17/08/2007 09:40
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: g_attrill]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
The only other annoying thing about the MBP in Windows is a lack of tap-to-click, although I suspect this is a driver issue
Try these Synaptic Drivers? Haven't actually used them myself yet but they are definitely worth a try.
Also Re: the 3 button issue, I ran Linux on my Macbook for quite a while and had single finger tap = left click, two finger tap = right click, three finger tap = middle click setup. Sounds dorky but worked well. Now recently reinstalled I have OS X, XP and Ubuntu (+ Compiz Fusion) on there with a pretty graphical boot menu. I just can't decide what OS to use!
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#301551 - 17/08/2007 09:54
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: sein]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
The only other annoying thing about the MBP in Windows is a lack of tap-to-click, although I suspect this is a driver issue
Try these Synaptic Drivers? Haven't actually used them myself yet but they are definitely worth a try.
Quite possibly - although I think it would need to be forced/bodged. When I installed the Boot Camp 1.4 drivers it did manage to bluescreen Vista when installing the official touchpad drivers so I will cross my fingers! I bluescreened it myself when trying to force some Nokia DKU-5 (USB cable) drivers on - I have given up and bought a CA-42 cable now.
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#301552 - 17/08/2007 13:16
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Andy, that Dell system should be compared to a MacBook, not a MacBook Pro. To compare to a Pro you should configure a Precision or XPS system. In every case I've tried, for both MB and MBP comparisons, the Dells are between $50 lower to over $200 more expensive.
The D630 only has a 14.1" screen. If you configure it starting with its BEST configuration it already starts at over $1500 and still only has a 1.8GHz processor and a crappy edition of Windows. I can't configure one up now because when I click on a number of the small radio buttons Dell's lovely site produces error pages saying something it wrong with the config.
The Dell machines get just as hot internally, but with their plastic cases you may not feel the heat as much. Intel is the primary culprit for the heat unfortunately - thermal grease application issues aside.
Edited by hybrid8 (17/08/2007 13:22)
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#301553 - 17/08/2007 14:50
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Damn, there must have been something funky going on with the Dell US website this morning. I honestly did get a figure of $1,589 when I speced a 2.2Ghz, 2GB, 120GB D630 on there this morning.
In fact when I speced the "LatitudeTM D630 BEST" option this morning the 2.2Ghz and 2GB were the standard included spec.
So my claims about the relatively cheapness of the Dell were based on crappy data. The prices are in fact very close. Though don't forget that the Dell includes those 3 year warranties, support and insurance. Apple charge $349 for a 3 year warranty on the Pro.
I was ready to believe that the Dell was $400 cheaper than the Apple, because the Dell is much cheaper in the UK than the Apple. For example in the UK the Dell D630 and the MacBook Pro speced the same comes out at £1,000 for the Dell vs £1,449 for the Apple (partly because on the UK Dell site you can opt not to have the 3 year support, accidental damage).
So in the UK a MacBook Pro is £450 more expensive that the D630 and the Dell comes with a 3 years next day on site warranty (the Mac has 1 year of non-onsite warranty).
Painfully, £150 of that £450 difference is because Apple charge you £150 extra to go from a 120GB 5400 rpm disk to a 160GB 7200 rpm disk...
The only reason I used the US sites/prices was because I thought it would be more relevant to more people.
However I can't agree that the MacBook 13 inch is directly comparable with the Dell D630, the D630 is much closer to the MacBook Pro 15 inch than it is to the MacBook (apart from the 1.3 difference in screen size).
For example:
- the MacBook 13 is not available with a 7200 rpm disk
- its screen is only 13.3 inches
- it's resolution is only 1280x800 (compared to the Dell and Pros 1440x900)
- it doesn't have dedicated GPU RAM (both Dell and Pro do)
- it only haves 64MB of GPU RAM (Dell and Pro have 128MB
- it only has a 667Mhz front side bus (Dell and Pro have 800Mhz)
- it only supports upto 2GB of RAM (Dell and Pro both do 4GB)
- it doesn't have a card slot
Edited by andy (17/08/2007 14:57)
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#301554 - 17/08/2007 15:04
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Well a rather crappy thing I've found is that my current Novatel S720 EVDO Card won't fit into the new ExpressCard slot on the Macs, which means I would need to purchase the new EX720 for $330. That sorta blows. The M1330 comes with with the older Express Card slot which I suppose it could be argued is a bad thing but actually works for me right now.
The better graphics card is really making me like the MBP though. I think I need to spend some more time with one today at the store. You would think the whole being able to run Windows thing would be something they would try to sell you on at the store but they didn't have one machine in the place that was running both OS's; and there are like 40 Macs in the place.
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#301555 - 17/08/2007 17:57
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Another thing the Dell doesn't have is the iLife suite of software, which really is good enough to warrant being figured into the price. I know that iTunes is a free download for the PC, but the rest of it isn't. I would personally argue that iMovie and iDVD alone close the price gap by a few hundred dollars, and if you do photography, I have yet to find a free photo organizing tool that I like better than iPhoto (especially the new '08 version).
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Dave
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#301556 - 17/08/2007 19:13
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Hmmm, every time I threw my collection of photos at iPhoto on my Mac mini it churned for a few hours then died.
No doubt any free photo organising software that Microsoft decided to give away would also wilt the same way as iPhoto.
Edited by andy (17/08/2007 19:16)
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#301557 - 17/08/2007 20:29
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I haven't looked at iPhoto '08, but Google's free Picasa blows away iPhoto '07. It's faster. It scales to massive photo collections. It supports a wider variety of image editing operations. Now if only Picasa ran natively on a Mac...
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#301558 - 17/08/2007 21:10
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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The Intel Integrated is also available on the D630 with the same 1280x800 "WXGA" screen (Dell sucks for not listing resolutions clearly). In fact if you configure the middle system to come up near a MacBook basic system it comes out to $1077 versus the Mac's $1099. You get 3 year MAIL-IN warranty, not on-site and not over night. Plus you get super-shite build quality, no camera, no remote, no DVI, no firewire, no gigabit ethernet that I can tell. Of course you do get the slightly bigger screen and slightly better Intel integrated gfx (though still crap like the Mac's). If you put Vista Ultimate onto the Dell it increases the price $50 to $1127. That would still leave the comparison fair since only Vista comes even close to Mac OS. If you buy the Mac in September you'll likely get a free upgrade to Leopard as well. The software suite is a great example as well. On the Dell you'll get a boatload of malware and other stuff to uninstall - if experience is any indication. On the Mac you get a software suite which Apple sells for $79 but is easily worth three times that. Anyway, bottom line is that in the US and Canada the prices are generally negligible for system that are "sort" of similar.
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#301559 - 17/08/2007 23:04
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: DWallach]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
I haven't looked at iPhoto '08, but Google's free Picasa blows away iPhoto '07. It's faster. It scales to massive photo collections. It supports a wider variety of image editing operations. Now if only Picasa ran natively on a Mac...
Yeah, I was referring to the '08 version. Though I've only had it for a few days, I have to say it seems like one HELL of an upgrade. And honestly, I can't agree with the Picasa comparison. I tried it, and though it worked well, I really didn't care for it. iPhoto is the winner for me specifically because it doesn't try to be an image editor. It's an organizational too first and foremost, and (wisely) leaves editing to programs specifically designed with that purpose in mind (e.g., Photoshop).
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Dave
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#301560 - 18/08/2007 03:22
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Photoshop isn't an ideal Photo editor though. And I mean that in both senses of the word, editing in terms of choosing images from a larger selection as well as editing as a form of retouching and correcting. Great for composites, but for general photographic work it's a PITA. You'll notice that everyone is rapidly switching over to using Aperture and Lightroom for their workflows. Non-destructive editing and correction is where it's at.  That's why I was looking for something that could both organize AND handle the more common adjustments. Lightroom blows away iPhoto for management/organization and of course adjustments. I chose it over Aperture as well, which was much slower, took up crazy amounts of hard drive space even with previews turned off and had the most asinine concept of organization anyone could possibly ever invent. Apple have been making some pretty decent looking interfaces lately, but some of their conceptual choices leave me puzzled. I've always disliked iPhoto and from what I've seen of the new version I can't say anything significant enough has changed to alter that opinion. I'm not even looking for a high-end nor professional workflow. I don't work with photograph for a living, but my modest amateur needs just aren't satisfied with iPhoto. I've got over 10k images in Lightroom at the moment. It's a lot faster than Aperture was, though it still shows some stress. Its slideshow functionality is useless for live slideshows and only suitable for rendering out a show for inclusion on DVD or to make a PDF or something. Maybe on a Quad G5 it would be reasonable. Lightroom is missing Smart folders but I can live with that until they add the feature. The 1.1 version of the product introduced a number of features that would have prevented me from ever adopting the 1.0 version (including significant changes to its image management). I'd like to see some additional correction/adjustment tools added that are well suited for a visual person, not a mathematician or accountant. LightZone has some retouching features that are simply the cat's ass. You *must* watch these videos. I'd also love to see support for HDR (High Dynamic Range) imaging in Lightroom in the future. I'm just starting to experiment with that and at least the ability to stack images is great for collecting the multiple exposures that will eventually become the single HDR shot. I've loaded Lightroom with a keyword library of over 10000 entries it's worked fairly well. iPhoto's keywording seems rather weak, though this is one area of significant improvement with the newest version. We're a bit off topic. I'm likely going to write an article about Aperture and Lightroom at some point in the near (I hope near) future, based on my experience with both. Some of the comments I've seen on the net, including one-week test runs with each, have been somewhat useful, but not brutally honest enough about some basic features that make a huge impact on adoption of this type of software. My biggest gripe about Lightroom is it's made by Adobe. I also use other of their programs, but luckily Lightroom is something new and not encumbered by so much of the garbage and 20 year old legacy UI BS still present in Photoshop and Illustrator for example. Microsoft seems to take all the attention away from Adobe when it comes to discussing monopolies and how one company can ruin so much other decent software. Ok, back to buying Dells and Apples.
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#301561 - 18/08/2007 06:17
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Anyway, bottom line is that in the US and Canada the prices are generally negligible for system that are "sort" of similar.
I'm intrigued by why Dell are so much cheaper than Apple in the UK. I can't work out why Apple should be so relatively expensive over here. Dell seem to be pretty much matching the $:£ exchange rate, Apple are some way short of that.
I know Apple have a lot more non-manufacturing, non-sales-service-support people in Europe than Apple. They have a lot of people running around supporting third part developers and the like (I know because I went to see them when they lent me that monster dual G5).
But I'm not sure that explains why they should be that much more expensive.
Dell do "manufacturing" (ok, assembly) in Europe, don't think Apple do. Maybe that has something to do with it.
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#301562 - 18/08/2007 09:52
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'd like to see some additional correction/adjustment tools added that are well suited for a visual person, not a mathematician or accountant.
They're working on that (finally!).
The latest Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) is actually now a quite usable retouching program, with really good visual feedback as to exactly what most of the controls are doing. I particularly like the ton of new sliders for the sharpening function, and the nifty (and ever so obvious..) "hold the ALT key while adjusting to visually see what each slider actually does" feedback mechanism.
Now they just need to get rid of the even-less-obvious requirement of needing 100% (1:1) view before *any* of the preview changes type of functionalilty works.
I actually paid for the PS-CS3 upgrade just to get hold of ACR. That combo is why I keep exactly one WinXP machine in the stable. But only for printing, as it's all way too tedious for the volume of web pics I manage.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (18/08/2007 09:55)
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#301563 - 18/08/2007 13:51
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Did you take a look at the videos of LightZone I linked? I can't explain how badly I want that functionality in my non-destructive workflow. I would also love B-Spline support in Illustrator and an exact duplicate of all Illustrator path tools in Photoshop. I won't hold my breath though, because with the exception of new modules such as ACR you mentioned, Adobe programs and UI are (as I mentioned) 20 years out of date. As of CS2 there was virtually no parity in UI between any of their applications - it was still painfully obvious they were all made by completely different vendors. Their original roots in third-party acquisitions have left their indelible marks which Adobe either seem incapable, or unwilling, to remedy. I'm not yet shooting RAW but will once I get some new photo equipment. Right now I don't even own a camera and have just gotten by using my fiancee's 4MP HP P&S and for the past 4 months, my brother's Nikon E8800. By the time I can afford to spend on body + lenses I'll probably be looking at the D200's replacement. I'll also be needing a replacement for this PowerBook of course. If I buy a Dell though, I can probably save $50 and use it toward the camera... Hehe. Had to tie back to the original topic.
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#301564 - 18/08/2007 14:00
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Quote:
On the Dell you'll get a boatload of malware and other stuff to uninstall - if experience is any indication.
While this is true, PC Decrapifier takes care of that issue in less than 1 minute.
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#301565 - 18/08/2007 15:00
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'm not yet shooting RAW but will once I get some new photo equipment.
No biggie.. the current ACR toolkit also works just fine on .JPG files..
something I took advantage of just yesterday for a special print
(before/after shown below).
(looks much better in the actual print).
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#301566 - 18/08/2007 15:05
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Did you take a look at the videos of LightZone I linked?
Error during QTVR parsing: No parorama found
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#301567 - 19/08/2007 12:45
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Damn, that's too bad (about not being able to see the videos). You have to find another way to check them out. The technique they show for region-based enhancing would have been completely appropriate and likely amazing for the image sample you posted.
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#301568 - 19/08/2007 15:12
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Our 2+ year old Inspiron 9300s are still going (very!) strong here. Wonderful machines, though a bit large for airports and the like. The Latitude X1 (2.5 lbs) serves rather nicely for extended travel, though!
We also now have an Inspiron 9400 with a Core2 duo CPU and other, lesser differences.
All of the machines, except for the X1, have 2GB (2 x 1GB, dual-channel) of DDR2 in them. Just last night, though, I picked up a cheapish 2GB stick of DDR2 to play with. None of these notebooks claim compatibility with 2GB sticks, but that doesn't mean it won't work.
It works in the X1, giving a 2GB total there (rather than the 2.2GB I expected, with the 256MB it has soldered onto the mainboard), and it also works in the 9400 alongside one of the 1GB sticks, for a total of 3GB. The BIOS appears to have left dual-channel access enabled, despite the mismatch in sizes, speeds, and brands of sticks. So it's all nice and fast there, too.
Gotta try it in the 9300 next, just for the sake of completeness.
EDIT: Just tried it, and the BIOS only recognized the first 1GB of the 2GB stick.
-ml
Edited by mlord (19/08/2007 15:31)
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#301569 - 19/08/2007 15:20
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Another thing I've noticed has to do with WiFi on the Inspiron 9400.
It has an internal PCIe slot for a wifi card, and originally shipped with a Dell (Broadcom) A/B/G card installed. Those now work fine with Linux, but I replaced it anyway with a new Intel ipw3945 A/B/G card.
The Intel card out-performs (range) the Dell/Broadcom card by a fair bit.
Well worth the $40.
Cheers
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#301570 - 22/08/2007 15:39
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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So I didn't get a Mac. After much consideration and late night forum reading, I realized that a MBP probably wouldn't be a good fit for me. At first, I thought it would be great to be able to boot into Windows whenever I wanted, but then I realized that if I had that ability, knowing me, I would probably constantly boot into Windows and then whats the point of having a Mac? Also, although its a really sweet machine, there just isn't enough there to make me switch. Its great if you're a creative type, but I'm just not. Also, I'm not sure if anyone has been to a Mac Store recently, but someone needs to tell those people to tone down the hipsterness a little bit. Anyhow, I picked up a Sony FZ180E. I headed out to Frys and Microcenter Saturday evening to see what they had available. I wasn't really impressed with any of the offerings until I saw the Sony. Its slim and relatively light, powerful and it has an insanely nice screen. Battery life is so/so and the hard drive is only 4200rpm but I think I'm going to upgrade it. The lack of internal bluetooth is also a bit of a downer. My biggest gripe however is the massive amount of preinstalled bloatware. It significantly slows down the machine and its sort of a pain in the ass to get rid of. I tried PC Decrapifier but it didn't really seem to get much. Get this: the laptop comes loaded up with Spiderman and Spiderman 2 SOMEWHERE on the laptop. The files take up about 2.6 GB of space and the only way to get to them is to basically pay for the movies via a link on the desktop. For shame Sony, for shame. So yeah I'm still working on tweaking it but all in all, I'm very happy. Its pretty damn powerful for a laptop of its size. Anyone have a link to a decent, very small usb dongle?
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#301571 - 22/08/2007 16:09
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Take the Sony back. Seriously. Slower processor. Slower graphics. Lower resolution screen. Slower Ethernet. No Bluetooth. Un-powered Sony-style mini-firewire. Heavier. Thicker. Comes with Vista Home (ugh!) BUT... Same price. Ok, there's a rebate on the Sony right now for $100. But you can easily find a 15% discount on the MacBook by using an alternate store interface. The Sony does have these things beyond the Mac: Blue Ray Disc. SD/MMC slot. Larger capacity HD as default. 1 extra USB port. HDMI connection without the need for an adapter. S-Video connection without the need for an adapter. My very well educated guess, based on my own experience and reports from others in situations similar to yours is that with a Mac you would find yourself booting less and less into Windows. There's no need to be any kind of creative type to use Mac OS. You don't have to have a creative bone in your body in fact. Anyway, of the other notebooks that were out there, the Sony is probably the best all-around choice next to the MacBook Pro.
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#301572 - 22/08/2007 16:21
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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LOL. You really love yer makes don't ya?
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#301573 - 22/08/2007 16:27
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
LOL. You really love yer makes don't ya?
Use whatever you wanna use No holy wars about this >.<
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#301574 - 22/08/2007 16:29
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
At first, I thought it would be great to be able to boot into Windows whenever I wanted, but then I realized that if I had that ability, knowing me, I would probably constantly boot into Windows and then whats the point of having a Mac?
I rarely actually boot into Windows. I just run VMWare and run a Windows app alongside the Mac apps. The point for me is that I don't have to interrupt my work flow, and have more flexibility in the apps I can run. The only time my Mac actually boots into Windows is to run a non OS X game, and since games take my full attention, the interruption of rebooting then is fine.
Quote:
Also, although its a really sweet machine, there just isn't enough there to make me switch. Its great if you're a creative type, but I'm just not.
What does being creative have to do about buying a computer? I switched because doing common computer tasks was easier in the sense that I didn't have to deal with operating the computer as much, and could just get work done. Plug in a camera, and photos get pulled off it and organized. No manual folder management, etc. Decide I want to do something in Unix, open a terminal. No need for cygwin on Windows to fill in for a poor command line interface. Sync my older bluetooth phone, just pair and sync, no mucking with 500 different bluetooth stacks and software combos.
Though as Bruno said, the Sony laptops are a pretty good choice for the design and such. Though I can't imagine going back to a laptop without ambient light sensors like the Mac has. Yet another thing I don't have to think about, the laptop just dims the screen on it's own to save power when in a darker room.
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#301575 - 22/08/2007 16:59
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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On top of the list that Bruno points out, your Sony has a 1280x800 screen where the Macbook Pro would have a 1440x900 screen. On the face of it it doesn't sound like a good deal. But on the flipside, it would be fun to watch 720p Blu-ray movies on your laptop... I think that is all it has over a Macbook really. Quote:
Also, I'm not sure if anyone has been to a Mac Store recently, but someone needs to tell those people to tone down the hipsterness a little bit.
Oh yeah totally. In the London Brent Cross store I went into a few months ago the crowd of people, bright white decor, crisp lighting and loud music made me nauseous and I had to leave after just a few seconds.
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#301576 - 22/08/2007 17:44
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: sein]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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For my needs, the difference in the processor and video card are pretty minute. There might be a bigger difference in the video card but from what I've been reading on the notebookreview forums, they are pretty comprable with some people even getting 8600 benchmark scores with the 8400 (with some tweaking). To get the 256mb 8600 I'd have to get the 2,499 MBP. The screen resolution is a pretty big difference but the LCD on the Sony is pretty amazing. They've got some xbrite crap they incorporated from the Bravia tv's that really makes it pop. As far as size, the MBP is not insanely smaller than the FZ1, they are basically in the same ballpark. The lack of bluetooth is definitely crappy but I don't think I'm going to miss the 1000BASE-T too much. On the other hand, having a portable blueray player with HDMI out is pretty sweet. Also, I tend to backup a lot of stuff so the Blueray writer should also be nice. Quote:
What does being creative have to do about buying a computer?
Well the fact that half of their selling point seems to be all the crazy, wacky creative shit you can do on your laptop. When they constantly throw that in your face, its gonna get the customer thinking about how much of that stuff they actually do, at least it got me thinking about it. Well it turns out I dont do very much blogging, music making, video editing or photo editing. So the fact that it comes installed with all these great and powerful software titles doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I'd be paying for but not really using them.
Quote:
I switched because doing common computer tasks was easier in the sense that I didn't have to deal with operating the computer as much, and could just get work done
I guess I'm just not a very hardcore computer user because I found that the stuff I needed to do was pretty straightforward in XP. I don't think I've ever been one of those users that found Windows to be overly burdensome for my own personal needs. Drivers did their thing for the most part, programs behaved as expected and went shit went wrong, I was usually able to figure it out. It'd be great if I were uber enough to just drop into UNIX and do what I need to do cause Macs are just cool like that but I'd have no idea what I'm doing.
Quote:
Plug in a camera, and photos get pulled off it and organized. No manual folder management, etc.
I'm not exactly sure how iPhoto does it but I'd just like to take this space to give another plug to Picasa. Managing my wifes pics used to b a pain in the ass but they've made that program pretty retard proof and now even she is uploading her albums to Picasa and whatnot without any assistance. Pictures come in from the camera and get nicely sorted in Picasa.
There are definitely a couple of things that I'm envious of in the MBP but not enough to make me want to switch.
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#301577 - 22/08/2007 18:13
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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My current laptop is a Sony from back before Macs went with (1) Intel and (2) high-res LCDs. I've been reasonably happy with it, with a few exceptions: It came with XP Home. This ended up being a pain and I reinstalled with XP Pro. Good luck getting drivers for the Sony-specific stuff to work if you do that. I finally got most of it working, but the thing that changes power profiles when you plug/unplug the system has never worked since the upgrade. And they told me that since the system was sold with Home, they wouldn't support me trying to get Pro to work. Without a doubt the worst tech support I've ever dealt with. You're right about the bloatware, however, I found that the biggest performance improvement came simply from defragging the hard drive. It was something insane like 80% fragmented out of the box. After a defrag, the computer was far, far, more responsive. I'm currently on my third battery. It has been a while, so that's probably not beyond the pale, but just so you know that if you want to keep it for a while, make that price concession. With a healthy battery, the life is pretty decent. Hours at least. Honestly, the only thing that would in any way keep me from getting a Mac when I upgrade is the one-button mouse. As far as Bluetooth goes, I'd wait for this adapter to come out. (Check out the cool PCCard-stored mouse, too.)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#301578 - 22/08/2007 18:32
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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DUDE that bluetooth adapter and mouse are awesome! The adapter is exactly what I've been looking for; I'm so getting it when its available for sale.
The mouse would be perfect too except for the fact that these new laptops use the smaller express card slot! I would be putting my order in right now if I had the older size slot.
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#301579 - 22/08/2007 19:01
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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They have an ExpressCard version, too.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301580 - 22/08/2007 19:01
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
When they constantly throw that in your face, its gonna get the customer thinking about how much of that stuff they actually do, at least it got me thinking about it.
Fair enough, they do promote iLife as a big deal because for a good chunk of consumers it is a big deal. While many programs out there in Windows land have sprung up to address the consumer media market like Picasa, none have the integrated nature iLife does. Import a photo, and I can then turn over to iDVD and crank out a nice slideshow disc to send off to the parents. Stuff like that. I personally use iPhoto all the time, where as iMovie and iDVD sit rarely used, and GarageBand and iWeb aren't on my Mac anymore. I don't feel removing them has detracted from the value of the system as it does plenty of other things I'm happy with.
Apple pushes other areas as well, they just don't market everything they do to the consumer. Very few consumers are interested in easy to code for frameworks for distributed computing and such. It is however there, and used quite a bit in the scientific community.
Asfar as the strong marketing, I tend to ignore messages like that when I want to buy something, since marketing doesn't do anything for me. The actual product is what does what I want, so thats what actually matters.
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It'd be great if I were uber enough to just drop into UNIX and do what I need to do cause Macs are just cool like that but I'd have no idea what I'm doing.
I also had no idea what I was doing at a Unix shell prompt in 1998, and had a Windows NT box sitting in a corner of my house as a file server. At some point though I decided that sticking to a Windows only view of the world was probably limiting my choices too much, so I reloaded the box with SuSE Linux and started learning. I had some rough starts with Linux before, but finally decided to put in the proper effort to use it. Shortly thereafter, I had a box that could file share, route my broadband internet connection to multiple machines, and running a web server for development work. Because of that decision now over 10 years ago, I've had new career opportunities open up simply because I stopped saying "well, I know what that offers is cool, but I'm comfortable here" and actually expanded my computer knowledge. I've seen too many coworkers stuck in a similar situation of comfort, and the ones that did step out generally ended up better off for it.
That last part isn't specifically there to try and convince someone to use a Mac, instead it's just there more as an example of how at some point, it might be worth it to try something new, even if on the surface it doesn't seem to be 300% better.
Interesting tidbit back on the Mac side. I've been noticing more programmers look towards Mac laptops as well for some reason. Here in my office, about 50% of the programmers have one, even though they spend all day in Visual Studio. Two of them are even working on a pretty slick OpenGL app for visualizing some of what our game servers are doing.
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#301581 - 22/08/2007 23:28
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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When I had to rebuild my Sony from the restore partition, I found out that the bloat is installed in a second step. First the os drivers and such installs in a pretty standard MS way.
Then there is a second reboot, where all the bloat is loaded. If you kill the installer, you end with a cleanly installed system that runs quite fast.
The problem I had was that I didn't know how the track down method by which the second boot bloat install was being called - as the next boot would start the install again.
Edit: btw, If you are no fan of NAV. Trying to uninstall it is a pain. Symantec provides, on their website, a special uninstaller that really does the job.
Edited by gbeer (22/08/2007 23:32)
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Glenn
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#301582 - 23/08/2007 06:05
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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As far as Bluetooth goes, I'd wait for this adapter to come out. (Check out the cool PCCard-stored mouse, too.)
I've got the PC Card version and whilst it is handy, I wouldn't use it for any extended period of time. You will probably give yourself really bad hand cramps if you had to do a lot of work with one.
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#301583 - 23/08/2007 18:52
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Take the Sony back. Seriously.
I agree with that, but not for the reasons you cite.
Every time I hear the word Sony I think back to the infamous CD Root Kit Virus debacle, and I remember my vow to never, ever give Sony another dime of my money.
Maybe I'm just a grumpy old curmudgeon holding a grudge beyond all reason, but there you have it.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#301584 - 24/08/2007 19:05
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: visuvius]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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DUDE that bluetooth adapter and mouse are awesome!
Even smaller!
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#301585 - 24/08/2007 19:14
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The Newton one, though, is rounded so that there are no corners to snag. I can imagine snapping that Princeton one off pretty easily.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301586 - 24/08/2007 20:01
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: sein]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Yeah I saw that today on Engadget. I'd rather have the Mogo for its round edge but this one would work great as well. The problem is neither of these are really available right now. I'm gonna go to Fry's and pickup a cheapo BT adapter in the meantime.
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#301587 - 24/08/2007 23:04
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
As far as Bluetooth goes, I'd wait for this adapter to come out. (Check out the cool PCCard-stored mouse, too.)
I've got the PC Card version and whilst it is handy, I wouldn't use it for any extended period of time. You will probably give yourself really bad hand cramps if you had to do a lot of work with one.
While not nearly as compact, I've been using this mouse on the road for quite some time. I actually really enjoy it. I have a nice black version that's very solidly built and feels great in my hand, and I have big hands.
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Matt
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#301588 - 25/08/2007 02:43
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The advantage to the PCCard one is that it takes zero storage space. It can be left in the computer all the time, meaning that you don't have to make any additional effort to remember to bring it. (Unless you actually have another PCCard that you want to use; I haven't used one in years.)
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Bitt Faulk
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#301591 - 25/08/2007 12:59
Re: Looking for a new notebook
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
Quote:
Where would I put my 2400bps modem then?
Can't you whistle ?
lol! Reminds me of that girl in one of the final episodes of Heroes who could "go on the Internet".
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