#302594 - 28/09/2007 09:10
Apple Bricking iPhones?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Have read that Apple are releasing updated firmware which will permanently disable iphones if they are unlocked or hacked. My first thought was "WTF?! Is this even legal?"
Surely its my phone and I should be able to do with it what I please? And in the UK, didn't Ofcom say that phones could not be prevented from being unlocked?
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#302595 - 28/09/2007 09:36
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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#302596 - 28/09/2007 12:08
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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The update is not bricking phones. It is absolutely illegal for a company to release software to permanently (and obviously maliciously) damage software installed on your product and or the product itself. Apple have not been very careful with what they've been saying about this and seem to have been put into serious legal jeopardy early on. This is why you've seen numerous statements coming from them to clarify the issue.
Their position is that some 3rd party software, namely the unlockers, are what is damaging the iPhone. Their updates might not install properly with this damage done and may leave you with an inoperable phone. This damage is not covered under warranty.
If it is ever discovered that their updates contained active code to maliciously affect your product, they could be in a world of hurt, so they have to be very careful here. It's really no different than many other software releases where no implied warranty is provided and you install at your own risk. Installation may have bugs and may cause incompatibilities, but these must be the product of pure chance, otherwise you're looking at the equivalent of someone distributing a damaging virus/trojan.
I suspect all will be hacked open again, but I wouldn't want to make bets on a date. Could be later today, in a few days or in a few weeks.
Most people with an unlocked phone know better than to apply this update and will stick with 1.0.2 until a solution is found. I'm also very curious to see what happens in countries where anti-locking legislation exists.
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#302597 - 28/09/2007 13:54
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Surely its my phone and I should be able to do with it what I please? And in the UK, didn't Ofcom say that phones could not be prevented from being unlocked?
Yes, it is indeed your phone, and Apple is not forcing you to update. This isn't a secret update over the air, it's one you have to click yes and a few other confirmations to get.
The root of the problem is that the unlocker programs modified the radio/modem firmware on the phone to allow other SIMs, and the 1.1.1 update Apple released also updates the firmware on the radio. For some reason, the two changes clash and cause the phone not to work with any SIM properly. And thus far, no one has figured out how to get back into the OS X side of the phone to poke around, so the issue can't be repaired.
Also, since the phone is not officially sold in the UK yet, UK laws wouldn't apply to this situation. In the US, there is a current DMCA exemption allowing users to unlock phones, however, this hasn't been tested in court yet to determine if it also means providers can't relock phones.
For me, I'm sticking with 1.0.2 firmware for now, since I find having my own custom ringtones more useful then being able to buy songs from the iTunes store. Apple will need to come up with more compelling features for me to want to upgrade and lose what I currently have. Some of my coworkers here didn't care much and have already upgraded, and (as expected) no problems for them on 1.1.1, even if they had hacked the phone to allow 3rd party programs.
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#302598 - 28/09/2007 14:51
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Does there tend to be a way to dehack the phone so that people that want the upgrade can do it safely after they've already hacked it?
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#302599 - 28/09/2007 16:02
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Does there tend to be a way to dehack the phone so that people that want the upgrade can do it safely after they've already hacked it?
And has anyone tried the hacks on an upgraded phone, or do they have to be re-written?
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Matt
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#302600 - 28/09/2007 17:02
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Does there tend to be a way to dehack the phone so that people that want the upgrade can do it safely after they've already hacked it?
If the only hacks you did was to add third party apps, and not touch the radio firmware, 1.1.1 will back out the hacks and upgrade fine. It's just like the 1.0 to 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 jumps, iTunes throws an error, then resets the entire device and upgrades fine.
If you modded the radio firmware to allow a non AT&T SIM, then it looks like there are ways to back out 1.1.1 now and get back to 1.0.2, but there are some issues here where the IMEI of the phone is set to a specific number instead of the unique number the phone was assigned. They are currently working to see how to fix this, odds are the process will be to back down to 1.0.2 and redo the radio firmware hacks after restoring that back to the older version.
Quote:
And has anyone tried the hacks on an upgraded phone, or do they have to be re-written?
None of the hacks to allow 3rd party apps, custom ringtones, or non AT&T SIMs can be applied with 1.1.1. The tools to store normal files on the iPhone (sudo diskmode like) still work. 1.1.1 changed things quite a bit, so it's just going to be a matter of time for the community to figure it out. It looks like the 1.1 release was for the iPod Touch, and with 1.1.1, the iPhone and iPod touch are now running in parallel. Work has been going on to get into the iPod touch since it came out, so in a way, the work for the iPhone on 1.1.1 started even before the firmware was released.
I fully expected this based on the comments Apple made. It was quite clear they were going to change a lot of things in the next update under the hood, and the result is that the hooks the 3rd parties were latching onto are now different. Is Apple doing this maliciously? I doubt it. They just have no responsibility to support 3rd party programs in their work, as they don't sell the device as an open platform. Internally, I'm betting 1.0 was branched off long ago to get it stable and ready in time to be flashed into the phones as the base image, so 1.1 development has likely been going on for a while. Enough time has passed where they could see problems in the lower levels of the OS and fix them with still enough time to get the base image for the iPod touch out the door.
I'd be curious to know what Hugo could say about all of this, but I imagine he's probably forbidden to speak much about any of it, since there has already been enough stray comments from Apple representatives that have been misinterpreted.
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#302601 - 28/09/2007 18:00
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: drakino]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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#302602 - 28/09/2007 18:15
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Slashdot article with links Hacked iPhones Confirmed As Bricking With Latest Update"iBrick" made me lol. iDo not have an iPhone 
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#302603 - 29/09/2007 12:24
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: Robotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I wonder if iPhones purchased with 1.1.1 (or higher) factory installed could be downgraded to 1.0.2, then hacked. Gizmodo's review sure is convincing.
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#302604 - 04/10/2007 22:37
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: FireFox31]
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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has anyone seen any good deals on used iphones?
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#302605 - 05/10/2007 16:11
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: burdell1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The Apple Store online has refurb units here and there. Keep an eye on this part of their store. I honestly wouldn't trust too many used phones on the market right now, since it's hard to tell if it's been hacked to support third party SIMs or not, and you could end up with someone else's semi bricked phone.
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#302606 - 05/10/2007 17:10
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: drakino]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Sounds like a good plan would be to buy a fresh one and only upgrade it when a hack has been thoroughly tried and tested. I couldn't believe the posts I read hundreds of reports of people blindly upgraded their hacked phones when hundreds of others were reporting their phones being disabled.
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#302607 - 09/11/2007 01:40
Re: Apple Bricking iPhones?
[Re: g_attrill]
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Do any of these hacks enable you to unlock the iphone where you can freely take out one carrier's sim and put in a different one without rehooking it up to the computer? All the unlocking software i have seen seems to make you put the carrier's sim card into the phone first and then you have to run the anysim software.
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