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#306840 - 04/02/2008 05:32 Marriage trouble
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
After talking with SWMBO I realize that my marriage may be in serious trouble.

She has been keeping a sordid secret from me for some time, but the truth has finally surfaced. While it is difficult for me to air my marital problems in such a public forum, in the interests of full disclosure I now do so. It turns out that she is a [shudder] Macintosh person! Oh, she tried to disguise it for years by using a Windows computer whenever she was in my presence, but now she has broken all boundaries of propriety and actually purchased a Macintosh.

Will mine be one of the many marriages destroyed by religious differences?

Now the questions arise, in particular, what (if any?) virus protection program should she use?

There seem to be two schools of thought among the Apple cognoscenti. (1), that there aren't any Macintosh viruses (virii?) out there so no protection is necessary; and (2) that yes, there are some, and more will certainly arise so better to play safe.

She's running OS-X, some version of it that can run both Apple and Windows software, or maybe all OS-X does that? How does it do that?

Anyway, she's interested in virus protection. We will not allow McAfee anywhere near any computer we own (nearly impossible to remove), and we're not all that fond of Norton either (resource hog). I am a big fan of AVG antivirus, I just upgraded my Windows computer from their free program to their Pro version. Since her Macintosh can run Windows programs, would AVG be of any use on that machine?

I am pretty much totally ignorant when it comes to Macintosh computers. About the only thing I can say about them is that they are different from what I'm used to, so they can't be any good. smile

I guess it all comes down to this: Does she need an antivirus program? Can this marriage be saved?

tanstaafl.
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#306846 - 04/02/2008 09:00 Re: Marriage trouble [Re: tanstaafl.]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Hahahahahahaha

Sorry - I have no useful information in this respect, but you did make me laugh out loud this morning! Thanks.
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Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
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#306850 - 04/02/2008 11:34 Re: Marriage trouble [Re: tanstaafl.]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
How Macs run Windows programs:
Before Apple switched to Intel CPUs, they did it with an emulator. Now that the newer Apples use the same CPUs as Windows boxes, it's still an emulator, but it doesn't have to work as hard and doesn't have to translate every single CPU instruction. The answer is actually a lot more technical than that, but that's the shorthand.

Virus protection:
If you're dual-booting the Mac (i.e., booting into windows, booting into mac), then each side of that system will need its own OS-specific virus protection. If you're just running a couple of Windows apps under Mac OS, then you only need the Mac virus protection.

Whether or not you need any Mac OS virus protection at all is a different question. Depends on the kind of things you guys do with the Mac. Do you download and run a lot of random stuff off the web? Do you open files from other people's systems? Do you browse lots of porn sites or hacker web sites? If no to all of the above, there isn't a lot of virus exposure on the Mac side. I don't have any specific recommendations about brands of virus protection software though.
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#306866 - 04/02/2008 14:24 Re: Marriage trouble [Re: tfabris]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: tfabris
How Macs run Windows programs:
Before Apple switched to Intel CPUs, they did it with an emulator. Now that the newer Apples use the same CPUs as Windows boxes, it's still an emulator, but it doesn't have to work as hard and doesn't have to translate every single CPU instruction. The answer is actually a lot more technical than that, but that's the shorthand.


Intel based Macs don't run emulators to run Windows, or any other OS. When booting from a clean start into Windows, it is no different then booting any other Intel based PC, with the small exception that it uses EFI to boot. Apple isn't unique in this regard, and Gateway and others have shipped consumer machines with EFI that boot Windows. Apple offers something called Boot Camp, but all it does is resize your OS X install to allow Windows to fit on the disc, and provides drivers for the Mac hardware under Windows. No voodoo magic here in booting Windows, or Linux or whatever other Intel CPU compatible OS.

Intel Macs running OS X also offer something called virtualization for running other OSs. This method allows Windows or another OS to boot up and run inside an OS X window, as if it were another OS X app. Due to modern CPUs from both Intel and AMD (Apple uses the ones from Intel), the virtualization runs pretty much at native speed, with no emulation of the processor needed, and the hardware handling requests from two operating systems simultaneously. For your SWMBO, this will likely be the only method needed, as the only advantage booting purely to windows offers is gaming or other graphics card dependent speed. Using virtualization will offer her the ability to run OS X and Windows apps side by side with some great integration. There are two programs that offer this and both are about $80. One is from VMWare, called Fusion and a company called Parallels offers a product after their own name. With either one, I'd recommend sticking with Windows XP. Running Vista side by side with OS X is not pretty, nor speedy.

Quote:
There seem to be two schools of thought among the Apple cognoscenti. (1), that there aren't any Macintosh viruses (virii?) out there so no protection is necessary; and (2) that yes, there are some, and more will certainly arise so better to play safe.


I fall in a different camp. While some trojan programs and such exist, and some programs in OS X could be exploited to make viruses, it's not likely to ever be a big deal. OS X is built on Unix and inherits all the security setup from over 30 years of being used in multi user environments. I also don't buy into the whole school of thought saying Windows has virus problems because it has the most market share. Years back, servers were much better targets for viruses, since they were always on in an era of dial up. Microsoft never has had dominance in the web server market, but yet their product suffered way more virus issues then the leading Apache software. Hackers target the vulnerable systems, and Windows doesn't have a good track record of shipping tight systems. If someone could turn the Macs of the world into a spam sending farm using a virus or worm, they would have. Because even with the slimmer market share Macs have, it's still a ton of machines.

So, lets answer the question directly. As far as I'm concerned, none is needed on the OS X side. Use common sense, think about what is going on if the security prompt pops up (OS X has a worthwhile security setup by default, and more meaningful then UAC in Vista), and keep backups as normal. As for Windows, well, if you use the products above, and don't really have a heavy need for Windows, install the OS and needed apps, then back up the files that VMWare or Parallels make to a DVD or something. Do not do any web browsing at all inside Windows, nor e-mail. If a virus does get in, just wipe away Windows, and bring back the backup files. If you save all your docs from Windows on the Mac side, you can just drag them back. If paranoid about it, install the free AVG inside Windows. Paying for virus protection on an OS not likely to be used heavily is just throwing money away when the free alternatives work fine.


Ok, with all that talk of running Windows, and virus protection, a more important question arrises. Does she really need to run Windows? Office exists for the Mac from Microsoft, and Apple's own iWork product also works with Microsoft file formats. E-mail, web and such all work fine on OS X. Why is Windows needed? Thats the first question that really needs to be answered before worrying about how to run and protect it.


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#306869 - 04/02/2008 16:51 Re: Marriage trouble [Re: drakino]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Intel Macs running OS X also offer something called virtualization for running other OSs.


I was lumping virtualization and emulation under the same umbrella. I know there's a difference between the two, I was just doing the shorthand for Douglas.

You can still do actual emulation under PowerPC-based Macs with the right software, though, right?
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#306873 - 04/02/2008 17:48 Re: Marriage trouble [Re: tfabris]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: tfabris
You can still do actual emulation under PowerPC-based Macs with the right software, though, right?


Yes you can. But I just run a real PC and connect to it with Remote Desktop instead. smile

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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#306876 - 04/02/2008 18:26 Re: Marriage trouble [Re: tfabris]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: tfabris
I was lumping virtualization and emulation under the same umbrella. I know there's a difference between the two, I was just doing the shorthand for Douglas.

You can still do actual emulation under PowerPC-based Macs with the right software, though, right?


Understood, but by doing so you lump the general slowness of emulation together with virtualization. Ignoring the technical aspect, it's still good to know there is a difference, and virtualization is what you want if you can, including support for it in hardware.

PowerPC Macs had Virtual PC 7 by Microsoft (they bought Connectix a few years back), however finding a copy now is next to impossible, and it doesn't work under Leopard. This is an emulator, and a slow one at that. It's not worth the hassle of even using at this point, but based on the comments, it sounds like the Mac in question is an Intel based one.

Doug, you can confirm this for certain by going to the Apple menu in the upper left, and selecting About this Mac. Processor will be listed on the screen that pops up, and it's also helpful to know what Mac OS version it is.

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