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#316686 - 26/11/2008 02:07 T1 vs FIOS
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
I know there are strong feelings about this, but hear me out.

I do IT support on a freelance basis for an organization in Washington DC, and they've asked me to look into alternatives for internet connections. They currently pay $850 for a T1 line that's supposedly rated at 3Mbps, and they feel their experience is just too slow.

Here is their setup:

-the building is a satellite campus for a university
-the building contains 4 offices, a computer classroom, a computer lab, two video production machines that regularly upload large files, and five floors of apartments with about 20 jacks per floor
-the network is essentially split, with one side going to the apartments and the other going to everything else, but both share the T1 line

My question is essentially: why is a T1 so great? Also, I've been trying to read up, and everything I've seen simply rates a T1 at 1.5Mbps. So why is the representative from their ISP giving me options for 5 and 10 Mbps, and telling me we already have 3 Mbps?

As far as I've been able to find, the benefits of a T1 line are reliability and a strong SLA with the ISP. However, this particular institution is getting to the point where a 99% uptime with something like FIOS would be acceptable as long as they could start seeing the speed they want.

I'm a little new to the "enterprise" side of things such as this (not that I consider this organization to have "enterprise" level needs), so I'd appreciate any info you folks could offer. Thanks.
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Matt

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#316689 - 26/11/2008 03:27 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
A true T1 is only 1.5mbit, as it's 24 64kbit streams tied together. A T1C, or more commonly called a DS1C does ~3mbit, and is likely what they have.

T1 line benefits are pretty much what you said. People get them for a guaranteed speed that they could sit and burst on all day with no impact. They are also great for doing dedicated voice communications between places, much like ISDN. The speed is both ways as well, so you get a solid 1.5mbit up and down. Usually T1s can also be given a lot of IPs very easily, as T1 providers tend to have enough to go around.

Switching to FIOS might be worth it, but make sure that whatever the agreement is, there aren't any hidden usage limits, or other issues that may make it unsuited for business use.

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#316693 - 26/11/2008 04:30 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: Dignan]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Your T1 is a total of "3 mbits/sec" because it has a full 1.5 mbits/sec in each direction. T1 lines are prized because of guaranteed bandwidth and uptime.

DSL/FIOS tend to vary in bandwidth, are subject to ISP throttling, and might bounce up and down during electrical storms and the like.

Cheers

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#316696 - 26/11/2008 05:25 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I imagine that he either has a pair of bonded T1s or has a partial DS3. No one refers to network bandwidth by summing the incoming and outgoing bandwidths.

But yes, the only reason you pay for T1-type service for data is for uptime and bandwidth guarantees. Chances are that whatever your actual physical connection is isn't really a T1 anyway, especially if you're (IIRC) in NoVA.
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Bitt Faulk

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#316697 - 26/11/2008 05:32 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: Dignan]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Don't forget what a 99% SLA implies. Would they really be happy with over 3 days a year with no net connection at all ?
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#316701 - 26/11/2008 09:56 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: andy]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
I would've thought T1 vs. FIOS equates to Business Product vs. Home Product.

We replaced a 512k BT Kilostream with an ADSL only because we accepted the drop in contracted availability.
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Cheers,

Andy M

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#316703 - 26/11/2008 10:47 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: andy]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: andy
Don't forget what a 99% SLA implies. Would they really be happy with over 3 days a year with no net connection at all ?

Honestly? Yes. Yes they would. I'm aware of what a 99% uptime would be, and I've seen better than that from my home connection, though I realize there will be differences.

At the moment, their connection gets so slow as to be nearly unusable for much of the time anyway. Even if they aren't guaranteed the 50/20Mbps 100% of the time, chances are it's rarely if ever going to drop to 1.5Mbps, correct?

Anyway, the point might be moot. I'll have to see if Verizon even had fiber running through that neighborhood at all.

Another appealing aspect is that with the enormous savings, the building could get two lines and still save a ton of money. Right now they have two completely separate networks, essentially one provided to the students for leisure and homework, and one feeding the operation and education side, but they both share the internet connection. This means that when the students decide to use bittorrent, the entire building gets shut off if the ISP decides so (which they did last semester). With two lines, they could always keep the educational side up.

I appreciate the education on T1 lines, too. I'm glad to see my research isn't off. I'm really leaning to dropping the T1, because they really don't have the need for that SLA...
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Matt

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#316704 - 26/11/2008 10:57 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: andym]
LittleBlueThing
addict

Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
Have you considered having a 128k (or as needed) leased line and several (possibly bonded) ADSL connections?

Stick a linux box in there and you can then do QoS based routing too.

That way you slash your costs, have HA core connectivity and lots of headroom which may significantly improve your user experience.

When you present a solution based on this idea remember to be prepared to ask for a raise....
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LittleBlueThing Running twin 30's

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#316715 - 26/11/2008 15:58 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: andym]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: andym
I would've thought T1 vs. FIOS equates to Business Product vs. Home Product.

Verizon also has FIOS services for business, though the fine print still says speeds may vary.

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#316726 - 27/11/2008 03:53 Re: T1 vs FIOS [Re: canuckInOR]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Well, it looks like FIOS is out, as there is little to no chance that they'll be running lines through DC anytime soon. Too bad.

On the bright side, I noticed that they've upgraded their plans since I first signed up with them. For the last 18 months I've had 5 down/2 up for about $43 a month. I noticed that the same price now gets you 10/2. I called to inquire about upgrading, and found out that with my TV and internet bundle, I could pay $3 less a month and get 20/10.

I just tried a torrent (a legal file, of course smile ), and was getting speeds of 2.2MBps. Amazing.

Anyway, back on topic, I'll still look at the other options available, and compare rates from other T1 providers in the DC area. I'm sure we can do better than $850 a month for 5Mbps.


Edited by Dignan (27/11/2008 03:54)
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Matt

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