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#312269 - 18/07/2008 10:57 Re: Wii [Re: FireFox31]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5616
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: FireFox31
Does the Classic Controller hurt anyone else's hands?


Does the design of any game controller make sense? All of the buttons are on the top, where you'd be using your thumbs. The limited number of trigger buttons are on the bottom where you've got about 8 fingers available.

I think this is why I'm a keyboard+mouse man...
_________________________
-- roger

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#312270 - 18/07/2008 11:14 Re: Wii [Re: FireFox31]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1487
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: FireFox31
Are video games getting easier as the years go on? Mario Galaxy, I love, but there are so many 1UPs and opportunities to save that it's not a real challenge.

I'm not sure if I'm just getting curmudgeony in my old age, but most games seem to get getting harder. Not necessarily in game play, but in understanding/remembering all the buttons and combinations you need to get through a game.

I made a comment to the boss' boss at breakfast a few weeks ago (we were talking about Advanced Warfighter I think it was) about how games are just getting stupid with the number of buttons they need. I told him I missed having two buttons so you could focus on the game and not the controller. One of the people in line in front of us heard me and totally agreed.

The only way I beat Uncharted was by ignoring some of the buttons totally and just using the 'important' ones. I'm sure there was a melee button, but I really doubt I ever used it.

My TV had the optical block problem a lot of Sony's have had, and games were pretty much unplayable. Because of that, I didn't touch GTA 4 for about 6 weeks or something now. If I wanted to get back into it, I'd have to restart to relearn all the controls.

PC games don't seem to suffer from that nearly as much. I guess it is because there are so many more options with an actual mouse and keyboard that combinations and esoteric actions/button aren't required.

That, and I realy wish some companies would actually hire a freakin human factor's group. Yes, I'm looking at you Sony.

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#312273 - 18/07/2008 15:13 Re: Wii [Re: FireFox31]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Are video games getting easier as the years go on?


This was the topic of a recent reader letter in one of the gaming magazines I get, and it's something that regularly (if tangentially) gets discussed in Game Developer just about every month.

YES, video games are getting easier.

It's a balance, you see. The idea is to make video games fun and accessible for as many customers as possible without making them either frustrating or boring. Games that are difficult to play will only ever appeal to a small hardcore crowd of gamers and thus will always have small sales.

Finding that balance, that sweet spot that lies between "boring for hardcore players" and "frustratingly difficult for casual players" is the ultimate holy grail of game design. The best games find some kind of magic combination that works for everyone.

Sometimes it's selectable difficulty levels, but that's a sort of cop-out. Lately it seems like they're solving that problem more often by giving additional gameplay content that can be ignored by casual players. For instance, on the Katamari Damacy games, you can complete any given level fairly easily, but getting a great score and finding all the secret goodies on that level takes re-playing it over and over again and finding the optimum strategy. XBox "Achievements" is similar, you can finish a game without getting many of the achievements, or you can try to get them all. I like these solutions, because they have the additional benefit of giving the game more long-term replayability.
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Tony Fabris

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#312275 - 18/07/2008 21:17 Re: Wii [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I liked the route the Max Payne games took where it would interactively tweak the difficulty level based on how well you played.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#312276 - 18/07/2008 21:26 Re: Wii [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Aren't they essentially MIDI controllers?

I can't imagine that they are. The guitar has five "note" buttons, plus one or two each for the whammy bar and the strum thingy. Given that there are 12 distinct notes in western music, ignoring multiple octaves, I doubt that it would make sense for them to implement MIDI. The drum controller is five buttons. Again, it doesn't seem to make sense to do it that way.
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Bitt Faulk

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#312280 - 18/07/2008 23:41 Re: Wii [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
The game controllers are definitely not MIDI, but I've heard a rumor that one of the upcoming games (dunno if it was Guitar Hero 4 or if it was Rock Band 2) has a MIDI *input* on the game drum kit so you could use a real drum kit if you happened to own one. Dunno if that's true or not.
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Tony Fabris

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#312283 - 19/07/2008 01:14 Re: Wii [Re: tfabris]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12145
Loc: Sterling, VA
Okay, I didn't really mean MIDI specifically. I should have just said that the instruments are nothing more than your standard controllers. I guess I was just thrown off by the suggestion that the Wii couldn't handle the input of what boils down to four controllers.

Firefox, could you elaborate on what you meant?
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Matt

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#312284 - 19/07/2008 02:35 Re: Wii [Re: Dignan]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
The microphone probably more complex than just a standard controller but they made rock band for wii so it must be able to handle it.
_________________________

Matt

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#312301 - 20/07/2008 00:35 Re: Wii [Re: msaeger]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
The microphone probably more complex than just a standard controller but they made rock band for wii so it must be able to handle it.

The microphone was my point. I was pleasantly surprised to see how accurately it identified pitch in my, um, singing. Pitch recognition doesn't seem that easy, especially with three other inputs, sound output, and all that video. I thought the Wii had underpowered hardware which couldn't handle it.


I think games are getting easier because of their play duration. Gone are the days of Contra, where you must play for hours without getting hit three times. Now you can save every five minutes and walk away any time. Not that I mind; this casual approach fits my schedule better than 8 hour sessions of Goonies II or Hudson's Adventure Island.

Make up for their ease by "playing with style." Like Mario 64, I strive to flip, fling and fly through Mario Galaxy with grace. Anyone can stomp on a goomba, but can you land on it by terminating your long jump in a spin stomp? And what is the purpose of the "waggle + stomp" - shake the wiimote and push the trigger at the same time for some odd extended in-air spin and show-off landing.


Lost Winds was a great way to wind down a long day. The music transports soul to a luxurious spa, sipping echinacea punch while getting a pedicure. ... Where are those last three pots??


On game controllers, designers could use those other 8 fingers like The Thummer.
_________________________
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#312304 - 20/07/2008 07:29 Re: Wii [Re: tfabris]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2089
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: tfabris
The game controllers are definitely not MIDI, but I've heard a rumor that one of the upcoming games (dunno if it was Guitar Hero 4 or if it was Rock Band 2) has a MIDI *input* on the game drum kit so you could use a real drum kit if you happened to own one. Dunno if that's true or not.


Seems to be - looks like most of it is backwards compatible, but in one of the descriptions it appears that it will have a MIDI connector. Can't wait.
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock

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#315755 - 01/11/2008 20:58 Re: Wii [Re: sein]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
Finally picked one up myself. Don't know how much you are all on it anymore, but here's the updated Wii friend code list:

l0ser 3936 1790 6273 8490
Dignan 2346 2852 4904 8562
drakino 3248 5534 2295 4054
msaeger 7010 4111 2461 3022
tonyc 6582 2420 7669 9428
ricin 3313 8584 0068 9980
adavidw 6940 1103 2809 4388
loren 1042 3358 6234 5595
visuvius 6427 6579 1576 5804
BAKup 1866 9499 5376 9057
hybrid8 8513 0580 4643 5279
taym 1601 4701 0635 3562
wfaulk 8079 8810 6672 8054
tman 0559 1159 3698 8856 <-- UK Wii
FireFox31 7720 5423 9299 1644
'sein 1389 3277 4651 6779 <-- UK Wii
Waterman981 1471 8819 8399 9846
_________________________
-Michael

#040103696 in a 1999 Audi A6
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons

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#315792 - 02/11/2008 17:55 Re: Wii [Re: Waterman981]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12145
Loc: Sterling, VA
I'll make sure to add you.

But nobody should add that code for BAKup. At least not at the moment...
_________________________
Matt

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#315796 - 03/11/2008 00:30 Re: Wii [Re: Dignan]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
Aye frown

I'm currently dealing with that issue.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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#316986 - 05/12/2008 02:33 Re: Wii [Re: Dignan]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
My new Wii Friend Code:
3510 4286 1839 9721

The Wii with old Friend Code is no longer in my possession frown

_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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#317449 - 20/12/2008 12:44 Re: Wii [Re: BAKup]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
I've added everyone to my replacment Wii, here's the updated list, please add me back in with my new code.

l0ser 3936 1790 6273 8490
Dignan 2346 2852 4904 8562
drakino 3248 5534 2295 4054
msaeger 7010 4111 2461 3022
tonyc 6582 2420 7669 9428
ricin 3313 8584 0068 9980
adavidw 6940 1103 2809 4388
loren 1042 3358 6234 5595
visuvius 6427 6579 1576 5804
BAKup 3510 4286 1839 9721 <- New code
hybrid8 8513 0580 4643 5279
taym 1601 4701 0635 3562
wfaulk 8079 8810 6672 8054
tman 0559 1159 3698 8856 <-- UK Wii
FireFox31 7720 5423 9299 1644
'sein 1389 3277 4651 6779 <-- UK Wii
Waterman981 1471 8819 8399 9846

Mario Cart Wii Friend Codes:
BAKup 4468-4767-1054

Super Smash Bros. Brawl Friend Codes:
BAKup 2750-5075-0715

Animal Crossing City Folk Friend Codes:
BAKup 3308-8537-5862


Edited by BAKup (20/12/2008 16:30)
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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#317452 - 20/12/2008 15:17 Re: Wii [Re: BAKup]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
My Wii was replaced during its last repair, so I'm not sure what my new code is. I'll have to update the thread once I have the chance to check it out.

I've also got Mario Cart, though I'm not that good at it. wink
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#317453 - 20/12/2008 17:13 Re: Wii [Re: BAKup]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
I've added my Mario Kart Wii friend code below. Bruno, have you tried playing it with the nunchuck? I am so much better using that than the Wii Wheel!


l0ser 3936 1790 6273 8490
Dignan 2346 2852 4904 8562
drakino 3248 5534 2295 4054
msaeger 7010 4111 2461 3022
tonyc 6582 2420 7669 9428
ricin 3313 8584 0068 9980
adavidw 6940 1103 2809 4388
loren 1042 3358 6234 5595
visuvius 6427 6579 1576 5804
BAKup 3510 4286 1839 9721
taym 1601 4701 0635 3562
wfaulk 8079 8810 6672 8054
tman 0559 1159 3698 8856 <-- UK Wii
FireFox31 7720 5423 9299 1644
'sein 1389 3277 4651 6779 <-- UK Wii
Waterman981 1471 8819 8399 9846

Mario Cart Wii Friend Codes:
BAKup 4468-4767-1054
Waterman981 0946-5542-7684

Super Smash Bros. Brawl Friend Codes:
BAKup 2750-5075-0715

Animal Crossing City Folk Friend Codes:
BAKup 3308-8537-5862
_________________________
-Michael

#040103696 in a 1999 Audi A6
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons

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#317458 - 20/12/2008 20:55 Re: Wii [Re: Waterman981]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12145
Loc: Sterling, VA
The nunchuck is the way to go, IMO. I hate the wheel. And the Wiimote alone is pretty bad too.

I haven't played Mario Kart in a while now. I'll have to find my code and maybe I'll see you folks on there sometime. I still prefer the previous Mario Kart, but the new one is fun too.
_________________________
Matt

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#323732 - 25/06/2009 18:59 Re: Wii [Re: Waterman981]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
If you have added me into you Wii with my *new* friend code, please PM me. Something's happened...Again...

_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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