Now that I have the whole networking situation in my mom's house worked out, I need to figure out what the heck I should do with the whole-house speaker system she has. At the moment it's connected to nothing, and it all comes out at a location that just doesn't suit her big home theater system. So, instead of having a really nice Marantz receiver with 2nd room speaker poles, there's a standard def TV that's just connected to a FIOS box. (by the way, FIOS appears to be packing some major wireless routers these days - I fully expected to have to hook up another access point on one of the higher floors, but even with the router in the first floor I get about 70% wireless reception on the 5th level)

Here's the setup: the wires from the four sets of speakers throughout the house all come out of the wall on the 2nd floor. The home theater is directly below it on the 1st floor (the basement). There's a nice splitter box that everything plugs into on the 2nd floor, which lets you individually turn off each set of speakers. I had the following ideas:

- have someone come out to run a couple wires between the floors, or reroute the four sets of wires to the bottom floor - this would be pretty expensive I'd imagine
- get some sort of wireless speaker transmitter/receiver set, hopefully one with a powerful enough receiver to power 4 sets of speakers (unlikely)
- find an inexpensive receiver or amplifier (again, with enough juice to power four sets), and figure out something to hook up to it

That's what I've come up with so far. What I like about the second idea is that the main thing that my parents had always used to play music for parties and what-not was the AppleTV. I could leave the receiver in the basement's 2nd room output on the AppleTV, get her an iPod Touch, and she'd be able to control the music from anywhere in the house.

Any other ideas? Comments? Product recommendations?

If they are already using iTunes with an AppleTV, Airport Expresses could be used around the house, attached to speakers. I've had iTunes outputting to the Mac, AppleTV, and 2 Airport Expresses without any issues.

Also, some receivers have some nice wireless speaker output options. I bought my mom a Sony receiver along with an iPod dock, and it came with an extra set of speakers that work anywhere in wireless range of the receiver. The extra wireless speakers are between the size of a large alarm clock and a small boom box.

Thanks for the suggestions, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough. There are already speakers built into the ceilings of the living room, kitchen, master bedroom, and master bath. Each room has an individual volume control knob, and each set of speakers has wiring running down to that second floor and out of the wall. There's nothing to connect to those speakers in the individual rooms (aside from volume), it all has to come from that second floor. I figured that if I could find some way to get amplified wireless audio to that second floor from the first, I could set her up with the iPod Touch and she'd have a pretty cool system (and a nice iPod too).

Most of the wireless speaker options I've seen don't output much more than 25W RMS. Is that enough for 8 in-wall speakers? I assumed no... The only ones I've found are intended to power surround speakers.

You can't do that yourself?

I wouldn't have the first idea how! I suppose I could just drop the wires back through the wall where they come out, but I don't have any idea how I'd get them back out again on the 1st floor. I'd also have to extend them to get them down that far. I'll take a look sometime this week when I'm able to get over there.

Sounds like you want a multi-room amplifier (see, for example, this one for $650). You then drive that multi-room amplifier from whatever source you want. Depending on your computer setup, something like a Sonos setup or an Apple AirPort Express + Apple Remote on an iPhone would feed the amp.

BTW, in North America, the 1st floor is typically the ground floor. In Europe, at least the few countries I've been to, the 1st floor is the first floor above the ground floor.

The basement is always just the basement. Did your mom move into a tree house or something? 5 floors? WTF? Are they actual stories or is this a back or side-split home?

It's a lot easier to understand what you want after having read the post three times. I still don't have any clue what kind of wiring you have, but it's not terribly difficult to add new extension wiring or even to re-wire if you need to. You'll just need some tools (fish tape, drill, hole saw, flexible drill bit shaft, carpet knife, etc.). and some patience. You may need to do some drywall (sheetrock) repair, so you'll also need some putty knives and mud (drywall compound) - the walls are drywall covered and hollow right?

If you plan to re-use the existing speakers it's important to know what's already there and how it works before deciding on how to wire it. You may want to test with the existing equipment to make sure everything works the way you expect it to before doing any work.

Chances are that there is a "plate" (a horizontal piece of wood) at the bottom of the wall the wires are in. You need to get a flexible drill bit (such as these) to drill a hole through the plate and into the floor below.

Hopefully that comes out in a wall that's directly below the one on the upper floor. Then you can just cut a new hole in that wall to mount an electrical box where you can terminate the speaker leads. (Since it's low-voltage, you can use a low-voltage "box", which is really just a shallow backless frame to mount a wall plate to.)

If it's not above a wall, it should come out in the joist space and then you'll have to run it to a wall. (If it's an unfinished basement without a ceiling, you're in luck. If not, that's a lot of dealing with ceiling drywall or plaster.)

To pull the wires, you could get a fish tape, but it's probably overkill. You can just tie a string onto the end of the drill bit, pull it back through the hole, then tie wires to the end of the string in the basement, then pull them through the hole. Leave string with the wires in case you ever need to pull anything else.

So, assuming you have a drill and some string, the only additional thing you'd need to get is the drill bit.

Unfortunately he won't likely be able to tie the string to the drill bit if he's running the wire through the height of a typical 8 foot tall wall. Which is what Matt needs to do if the basement wall is finished and he wants to run the wires down to the floor. The longest bit is 6 feet and there's going to be at least a couple of feet sticking out of the wall up top, so that puts the bit tip no more than 4 feet down into the wall cavity. You may also have to make 2 or 3 holes depending on how much wire you want to run and the gauge of that wire.

But you can improvise a fish tape with some stiff wire (metal coat hanger style, though a normal coat hanger also won't make the distance).

A fish tape is also invaluable if trying to go across a finished ceiling without making a ton of holes in the drywall/plaster. You can pull a string with the tape and then use the string to pull the wires and a new string (which you'd leave there as Bitt recommended).

Before drilling anything you should know where the drill bit (and holes) will end up. If the basement was unfinished you could drill up from the bottom into the wall cavity on the floor above. The way I understood what was written however, I take it the space is finished.

The most unfortunate aspect of this is that while it's relatively easy to run wire and to describe methods or techniques to run wire, it's virtually impossible to make recommendations on the best techniques or route without seeing the house, pictures or really good descriptions of the room/floor layouts. That's the huge benefit you get with a professional. They'll look at the place and should know relatively quickly exactly what they're gong to do.

If you're good at drywall application and plastering, you can always cut out a small panel to give yourself some working room. Then you can get away with using a normal drill bit as you can put the whole drill into the wall cavity. Use a hole saw to make a 1-2" hole and you can just drop the wires down and then pull them yourself from an outlet sized hole in the drywall below (again, assuming walls that line up on both floors).

I've actually been doing some wire running recently and will be doing some more in the next week. Network and 120v power lines. The new lines are for special outlets that will be connected to a UPS at all times. Two story home, dropping from attic to 2nd floor and from 1st floor to basement. Runs from the attic to basement go through a conduit which runs the height of the house, which was a great option to have installed when the house was built.

For what they cost I would say this is a must for anyone running wires in hidden places. Here in the UK you can get a set of very cheap fibre glass rods that screw together for longer runs. They are really nice as you can flip the whole length over objects pretty easy once you get the knack.



If you can use cable as a draw string rather than string. It will last longer, not burn the other cables when you are pulling new stuff in and tends to be easier to pull as it doesn't get snagged on cables so easily. A solid core (not stranded) telephone cable is ideal for that job.

I would say trying to line up holes and partitions in walls between floors is asking a bit much, prepare to have to patch your drywall, and if you don't have to it'll be a little bonus

Running cables in homes is a true pain in the ass. I would avoid it unless you really can't find another solution. I did it day in day out for 10 years, it is always more of a difficult job than it looks!

Cheers

Cris.

Yikes. I'm not sure I'm up for all that, you guys. More importantly, I'm not sure my mom is up for all that disruption in her home

And yes, Bruno, we typically call the ground floor the 1st floor, I was just attempting simplicity (and failing) by essentially naming them 1 and 2. She's moved into a 5-story townhome. Yup, it's pretty tall, and a freaking great place, which she deserves after the year we've had.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do here. I really don't think I'll be able to handle that in-wall wiring job. I'll think about it.

Thanks for the help, though!

Well if you have any questions about it, including specific recommendations, you can also contact me by email and send me pictures of the rooms.

Ya, it can be some disruption depending on what actually needs to be done, but then again, it can also be as little as 30 minutes to an hour's work, plus a couple of minutes of clean-up. Too bad you're not local or I'd do it for you. Since I don't do it for a living, I actually quite enjoy it.

If your in the mood to wire up a house, I could use some CAT5e runs to a few places...

Definitely get a fish tape if you're running wires through any distance at all in a ceiling or wall cavity.

I held off for 15 years, always making do without one. Then finally picked a a 50' tape for under $20.

MUCH easier!!!!!
Gahd I wish I'd clued into them about 15 years earlier!!

Get a fish tape!

Oh, I didn't know they came that cheap these days. Yeah, for that price, get one.

Good advice from all these guys. The fish tape is especially essential if you're running down an exterior wall with insulation. If not, many times you can get away with a piece of string and a fishing weight tied to the end.

As far as patching drywall goes, here's a very simple way: If it's not already, square up the hole by trimming the edges. Cut a square patch exactly two inches larger than your hole in both directions. Score the patch on one side one inch from the edge on all edges. Then carefully break the drywall along the scores and peel the edges off the paper on the other side. You should now be left with a patch the size of your hole and one inch of paper extending in each direction. Put some drywall mud on the edges of your hole and press the patch in the hole. Use a drywall knife to squeeze out any excess mud by dragging it over the edges of the patch. Then use drywall mud on the outside of the patch to cover the edges of the paper. Sand and paint.

Pictures of this method found here under heading "Patching Small Holes in Wallboard"

Huh. I wish I'd have known that...

I love these clever "back on the farm" solutions to problems, thanks for sharing. They constantly remind me that after completing a mechanical engineering degree, you still "don't know shit." Or, as my mentor (a former Apollo engineer) once told me, "the problem with engineers is that most of them can't find their ass with either hand." That's me, more often than not...

To be honest, I don't like the instructions/recommendations at that DIY site. I don't recommend using rough sandpaper on wallboard or you're looking at increasing your work significantly. A light sanding works fine. The show someone setting a nail into wallboard. Don't use a nail for anything. Nails were outdated in the 1800's. Unless you're using one to pick your teeth, avoid them. Use drywall screws for holding power and a head that will properly counter-sink into the drywall and be easy to plaster over without cracking the surface paper.

Large holes need to be reenforced with a piece of wood that's screwed into the wall, not hung with a piece of string. Cut the drywall by scoring it repeatedly with a carpet knife rather than a saw - it will produce much straighter and neater results, making it a lot easier to plaster.

Small repairs, including nail holes or other imperfections need to be "divoted" before they're plastered. That is, they need to be in the form of a depression that rolls smoothly from the good parts of drywall around it. HItting such a spot with the back of the handle of a putty knife usually works well enough. This will prevent your new plaster from forming a bump that you will never be able to smooth out.

On first plaster application, scrape almost all the plaster off. Leaving a lot of plaster is only going to create more work, more mess and waste plaster because it's all going to sand off later. If you're going to need to feather a lot (large areas) invest in a couple of wide knives - 6" and 10 or 12"

The issue I have with the paper edge method as described on that site is that you''re potentially left with a significant bump all the way around your patch which needs a lot of feathering to hide unless you also prep the hole's edges to accommodate the extra paper layer.

Best drywall tips I've ever seen come from the TV shows Holmes on Homes and DisasterDIY, both Canadian shows on HGTV. And of course from watching drywall professionals work on my home. Damn those guys are fast.

I apply a wallboard patch by putting a piece of lath or equivalent across the inside of the hole, attaching it with screws from the front. Then screw the patch to the lath that now runs across the back of the hole. For very large holes, use two pieces of lath, one towards the top and one towards the bottom. (Or left and right, if that's easier for whatever reason.)

Then mud, sand, and paint.