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#334683 - 02/07/2010 14:45 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
It should be said that my tests don't appear to match other people who have tested thoroughly:

http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/iphone_4_3g_performance

I see a 10 fold drop in performance, not the relatively small drop that they see. So maybe my phone is defective in some way.
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#334685 - 02/07/2010 15:44 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
The latest conspiracy theory is that Apple intentionally altered the signal strength to bar formula so they'd appear to have a better signal than other phones.

I also heard that Elvis was the programmer responsible for this but he was assisted by a team of Roswell aliens...

Originally Posted By: andy
give me a free Bumper

According to the apparently leaked AppleCare documents, you're not going to be able to get a free bumper case out of them. Also unless you have issues with the iPhone reception when its not actually being held by yourself then it doesn't count as faulty. If you're not happy with this then take it back for a refund...

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#334687 - 02/07/2010 16:16 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31244
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: andy
I really don't give a toss what the signal bars indicate, it is the data throughput that matters and with my iSpot covered it is a ~10th of what it should be on my iPhone 4.


I wonder... Is there a chance that they deliberately throttle the data bandwidth based on the number of bars? In other words, could the reported drop in data throughput still possibly be due to a software bug in the bars calculation?

Or maybe the stuff they're saying about the bars calculations is actually an oversimplification of the more complicated issue of baseband frequency switching that some have suspected might be causing the problem.
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Tony Fabris

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#334688 - 02/07/2010 16:18 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: andy
I see a 10 fold drop in performance, not the relatively small drop that they see. So maybe my phone is defective in some way.

I'm still at a loss of what to do as well. I was just using the phone at my desk with the bumper case, and still had it drop from 5 bars to 3. Running a speed test again shows that the case is helping a bit, but not a ton. My download speed was cut in half, and upload down to 1/4th the normal speed. Considering how close the tower is to my office, this is going to be much worse elsewhere.
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Tom

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#334689 - 02/07/2010 16:25 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: tfabris]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: tfabris

Is there a chance that they deliberately throttle the data bandwidth based on the number of bars? In other words, could the reported drop in data throughput still possibly be due to a software bug in the bars calculation?

Or maybe the stuff they're saying about the bars calculations is actually an oversimplification of the more complicated issue of baseband frequency switching that some have suspected might be causing the problem.

I still think that is a possibility, though seeming much less likely now. It seems that once you trigger the issue it takes it 30 seconds or more to recover:

- start a speed test, get 2000k
- touch the iSpot
- speed drops quite rapidly to 50k
- release the "death grip"
- speed stays pegged at 50k
- cancel speed test, run again
- speed still under 150k
- wait 20 seconds for bars to return a bit
- run speed test, back to 2000k
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#334690 - 02/07/2010 16:38 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Another thing that I don't understand is that just occasionally bridging the gap will have zero effect on the download speed. I just just running some more tests and several times I touched the spot but the download still kept screaming along at 2000k+

All very odd.
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#334692 - 02/07/2010 16:55 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13983
Loc: Canada
Just out of curiosity, do things improve at all with a small strip of clear tape applied over the iSpot?

I'm wondering how much "physical contact" matters relative to "physical proximity" -- the tape should make that easy to distinguish.

Cheers

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#334693 - 02/07/2010 17:01 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31244
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: andy
Another thing that I don't understand is that just occasionally bridging the gap will have zero effect on the download speed. I just just running some more tests and several times I touched the spot but the download still kept screaming along at 2000k+


This would tend to indicate that it is indeed some kind of a software issue, where the system is only throttling the bandwidth (or switching frequencies) after a short hysteresis timeout, based on some perceived indicator of reception issues, rather than actual loss of signal.

I'm really curious to see if the software update takes care of it.
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#334694 - 02/07/2010 17:06 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: mlord]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Originally Posted By: mlord
Just out of curiosity, do things improve at all with a small strip of clear tape applied over the iSpot?

Tom tried a Post It note and that was sufficient to not cause any issues if you touched that spot.

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#334696 - 02/07/2010 18:03 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: tman]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I tried a bit of electrical insulating tape, which didn't appear to help. A tea towel however was enough to solve the issue. Also a thick rubber band worked.

However I have also seen people report that the Bumper didn't work to solve the issue for them.
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#334697 - 02/07/2010 18:32 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12131
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: drakino

I got annoyed by this part of the statement:

Quote:
This is true of iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, as well as many Droid, Nokia and RIM phones.

That just bugs me. Droid phones? I guess if you have an Android device on another network you don't have this issue.

And here's how I read that statement, if we look at the grammar:

"[the]* iPhone 4 and 3GS have this issue"

"many Droid phones have this issue"

Using this logic, Apple's two latest generations, essentially all the phones they're developing for, have antenna issues, but you can buy a Droid phone that doesn't.

I'm just saying, perhaps Apple's PR isn't as great at attention to detail as other teams in the company (except for the antenna team - ooo burn!).


* I out and out REFUSE to refer to it as "iPhone," as in "iPhone 4 has great reception." It's "THE iPhone 4 has great reception." It's not a f**king person, damnit! Steve sounds like a totaly d-bag every time he says that.
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#334699 - 02/07/2010 19:16 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: Dignan]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4151
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I'm just saying, perhaps Apple's PR isn't as great at attention to detail as other teams in the company

I got a chuckle out of "Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G."

Peter

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#334700 - 02/07/2010 22:00 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: peter]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
The infamous barPhone was reported to have been disguised with a wrapper. I could see Apple not recognizing the scope of the problem it that was commonly, how the prototypes were handled.
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#334730 - 04/07/2010 15:54 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Well I took my iPhone 4 to the Genius Bar at the Apple Store today.

You can go and read all the gory details if you want, but in summary: my iPhone appears to be typical, a Bumper solves the issue, no free Bumper offered, customer left angry and frustrated.

I'm sure everyone is through bored with me going on about this, so I shall try and shut up about it and wait to see what the software update brings. And no doubt next time I'm in an Apple store I'll probably cave in and buy a Bumper frown
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#334731 - 04/07/2010 16:01 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
No, I, for one, am interested. How long do you have to return the phone? Is the update going to come out before that?

Personally, I think I'd return it on principle, even if I were to just buy it again if and when they fix the problem.
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#334732 - 04/07/2010 16:08 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
As Bitt suggested, I'd return it. It's the clearest message Apple is going to get on this issue.
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Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#334733 - 04/07/2010 16:54 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: wfaulk]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Being in the UK I have the might of our much derided, expensive consumer laws behind (by people in countries with little consumer protection in the country). I don't expect to have too much trouble returning it if I choose to if the update doesn't resolve it.

I did check with the store manager if he thought I'd have any hassle. He said 'come in and ask for me', and gave me his business card. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity.
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#334734 - 04/07/2010 17:19 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I hadn't considered returning it as a temporary measure, it seemed like a very final action to me.

It would mean losing some money though as every day I can't sell my 3G it is going down in value.

I'll give it some thought.
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#334736 - 04/07/2010 18:31 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'm still debating what to do myself. My 3GS doesn't have much resale value currently due to some glass damage, so for me it's not too much of a concern if I go back. I would however miss the iPhone 4 features, as it's really grown on me already. I have a trip coming up, and I think I'll make a final decision on returning or keeping it after that.

I am going to return the bumper case though. I can't plug the iPhone 4 into my temporary speakers in the car with the bumper on, nor can I plug it in via the dock connector. Plus it's nearly caused me to drop the phone already, due to the rubber gripping the inside of my pants pocket as I'm removing it.
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#334737 - 04/07/2010 18:44 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: drakino]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5398
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: drakino
I am going to return the bumper case though.

Don't be too hasty -- there's a guy in Surrey, UK, that might want to buy it from you... smile

tanstaafl.
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#334744 - 05/07/2010 12:32 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: tanstaafl.]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3728
Speaking of iPhone 3G (not 3GS): Has anybody else noticed that things have gotten decidedly slower with iOS 4? Yesterday, I tried using the camera, and it took something like 30 seconds to actually be ready to take a picture, by which time the thing I wanted to shoot was long gone.

I'm sure it's much better with a 3GS or 4, but it's still sad that Apple hasn't managed to keep up the performance on their older models. I'm hoping that the Android people do better with this sort of thing as their platform evolves. Certainly, they seem to have made real strides in performance from Android 2.1 to 2.2.

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#334745 - 05/07/2010 12:40 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: DWallach]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
My 3G definitely has some sluggishness on iOS 4.0 in some areas, some of the time. Some things seemed to be a bit quicker too.

Some people have reported that it is faster after a clean setup rather than a restore. Not that that is very useful, if you actually have data and settings that you want to keep frown

I've just mailed mine off to a recycling company, which I guess means I'm keeping my iPhone 4 for now.
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#334774 - 06/07/2010 06:55 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1896
Loc: Leeds, UK
For those in the UK, quidco.com are offering 100 cashback on the 12 month 15 iPhone simplicity tariff. If you are a low minutes user like me then that is quite the bargain, 80 for the year overall!

It will mean the iPhone4 will cost me 580 for a year, not too bad I don't think, especially with the added bonus of keeping my number and being SIM free at the end.

Cheers

Cris.

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#334795 - 06/07/2010 17:54 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31244
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: andy
My 3G definitely has some sluggishness on iOS 4.0 in some areas, some of the time. Some things seemed to be a bit quicker too.

Some people have reported that it is faster after a clean setup rather than a restore. Not that that is very useful, if you actually have data and settings that you want to keep frown


I've noticed increased sluggishness with my 3G phone with each successive update. The update to iOS4 made things only incrementally worse than the prior update, but I do get the feeling that they are a hair worse rather than better. Note that I did a full clean wipe of the phone instead of a restore (details of that fiasco I think are higher up in this very thread).

Some things I've noticed about my 3G phone that has helped me speed it up occasionally:

- If the phone completely locks up to the point where it seems to be unusable, sometimes pulling out the SIM card, blowing on it Nintendo-style, and re-inserting it, helps. I think there's a processor thread that's constantly checking the SIM card, and if there's intermittent connectivity to the SIM, you'll get that thread locking up and causing other dependent threads to lock. This, by the way, is coincident with a related symptom: Sometimes my phone would just say "No Sim".

- There's a free app called "Scan" that will free up RAM on the phone. Running that occasionally helps. For instance if I run the app before I run the TomTom navigation app, then the user input prompts on TomTom are more responsive (though still too slow for my tastes).
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#334802 - 06/07/2010 18:28 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: tfabris]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5785
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I had the opposite experience, each update over the last 2 years made my 3G feel faster (in some cases measurably so).

Excluding 4.0 that is, most stuff got slower then.

TomTom was always painfully slow on the 3G though. TomTom is just great on the iPhone 4, faster than any dedicated TomTom unit.
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#334838 - 07/07/2010 19:50 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: andy]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Looks like the iPhone 5 has already been leaked:
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#334840 - 07/07/2010 20:17 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: drakino]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Heh. I guess we're a long way from when Motorola thought they had to put a fake antenna on the MicroTAC.
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#334844 - 08/07/2010 00:07 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: drakino]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5398
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: drakino
Looks like the iPhone 5 has already been leaked:


iPhone 5-A with optimized reception.

tanstaafl.


Attachments
iphone.jpg


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#334850 - 08/07/2010 10:45 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: wfaulk]
Folsom
member

Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Heh. I guess we're a long way from when Motorola thought they had to put a fake antenna on the MicroTAC.

Why do you think there was a fake antenna on the MicroTAC?

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#334851 - 08/07/2010 11:29 Re: iPhone 4 [Re: Folsom]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Because a solid plastic rod is not an antenna?
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