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#298494 - 17/05/2007 00:44 Vista badness
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Ok so I bought a lappy with vista on it. An HP tx1000 series job.

So here is the thing about Vista and laptops. You really want to deny all setup options that involve phone home operations.

The phone home ops, are setup in the Task Scheduler. Some of them involving the Media Center, get setup to run the first time on activation of the Media Center (MC) and every 19 hours ever after. Who schedules task every nineteen hours, MS that who.

These tasks activate even if the lappy is completely shut down. The MC task activates MC itself, which then disables the normal sleep/hibernate/shutdown if idle options.

Until I figured this out, I had seen MC startup without being asked, while i was using the laptop ... found the lappy running though I was sure I had shut it down ... found it with a completely drained battery inspite of putting it away fully charged. Finally I saw it start up from completely off. On login it immediately started MC without asking.

Checking the event log was a futile exercise in "what caused that message".

I don't know what it was that made me think of looking at the task scheduler, but even then finding the check box, allowing the task to turn on the lappy was irksome. The list items showing in the scheduler's information panes, are all clickable and open up property pages, that have additional clickable lists... Well eventually you get to an actual property page that allows a changing the task to be completely disabled or just precluded from waking the machine.

As to the tx1000 series machines themselves. I wish I hadn't purchased it.
It's one of those swing screen jobs that purport to be convertible to a tablet form.
- In tablet form it's kind of useless because it has no touch screen or pen input. I think that can be had, but only direct from HP via a custom config, and it's pricey.
- Battery life is less than I care for less than 3 hours. Six is the minimum. (I made a bad assumption about the availability of larger cap. batteries.)
- When playing HD recorded from OTA, (dvr-ms file) You must run the cpu in high performance mode to prevent gross skipping. Even then video seems a bit off.
- forgot to mention, It runs a lot hotter that I care for.


Edited by gbeer (17/05/2007 00:56)
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#339268 - 09/11/2010 00:13 Re: Vista badness [Re: gbeer]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Originally Posted By: gbeer
Ok so I bought a lappy with vista on it. An HP tx1000 series job.

So here is the thing about Vista and laptops. You really want to deny all setup options that involve phone home operations.

The phone home ops, are setup in the Task Scheduler. Some of them involving the Media Center, get setup to run the first time on activation of the Media Center (MC) and every 19 hours ever after. Who schedules task every nineteen hours, MS that who.

These tasks activate even if the lappy is completely shut down. The MC task activates MC itself, which then disables the normal sleep/hibernate/shutdown if idle options.

Until I figured this out, I had seen MC startup without being asked, while i was using the laptop ... found the lappy running though I was sure I had shut it down ... found it with a completely drained battery inspite of putting it away fully charged. Finally I saw it start up from completely off. On login it immediately started MC without asking.

Checking the event log was a futile exercise in "what caused that message".

I don't know what it was that made me think of looking at the task scheduler, but even then finding the check box, allowing the task to turn on the lappy was irksome. The list items showing in the scheduler's information panes, are all clickable and open up property pages, that have additional clickable lists... Well eventually you get to an actual property page that allows a changing the task to be completely disabled or just precluded from waking the machine.

As to the tx1000 series machines themselves. I wish I hadn't purchased it.
It's one of those swing screen jobs that purport to be convertible to a tablet form.
- In tablet form it's kind of useless because it has no touch screen or pen input. I think that can be had, but only direct from HP via a custom config, and it's pricey.
- Battery life is less than I care for less than 3 hours. Six is the minimum. (I made a bad assumption about the availability of larger cap. batteries.)
- When playing HD recorded from OTA, (dvr-ms file) You must run the cpu in high performance mode to prevent gross skipping. Even then video seems a bit off.
- forgot to mention, It runs a lot hotter that I care for.


Looks like HP has lost a class action suit about laptops containing a certain Nvidia chip, and this laptop is one of those that will be replaced. Now all I need to find is either the receipt or the credit card statement.
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#339278 - 09/11/2010 08:03 Re: Vista badness [Re: gbeer]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
That is very interesting. I have a Dell D630 with one of those dodgy Nvidia chips.

It has already failed once and the motherboard was replaced by Dell even though it was outside the 1 year warranty (it was inside their extended warranty that they added for this issue).

I now run a desk fan with some cardboard to channel the air under the laptop on its stand. The fan has to be on whenever the laptop is on to keep GPU temperatures down.

Despite that it is now showing the early signs of failure, random flashing characters briefly on boot.

So the question is, as someone living in the UK am I covered by this US class action ?
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#339284 - 09/11/2010 10:59 Re: Vista badness [Re: andy]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: andy
So the question is, as someone living in the UK am I covered by this US class action ?


I wouldn't know, but could you use it as evidence that the goods were not of sufficient quality when originally sold and get a refund that way?
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#339285 - 09/11/2010 11:19 Re: Vista badness [Re: Roger]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Yeah, I was considering that too. I've had it 2 years 5 months now.

Unfortunately they aren't obliged to refund, they can repair. Which would mean at best another motherboard, with exactly the same long term problem.
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#339320 - 09/11/2010 21:51 Re: Vista badness [Re: andy]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Originally Posted By: andy
Yeah, I was considering that too. I've had it 2 years 5 months now.

Unfortunately they aren't obliged to refund, they can repair. Which would mean at best another motherboard, with exactly the same long term problem.


Better than nothing. Maybe in 2 years from now you'll want to replace your laptop anyway. Not ideal, I agree, but still...
Here I'd have no hope to get anything done after warranty expires. It is actually good you can do that in the UK.
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#339327 - 10/11/2010 06:37 Re: Vista badness [Re: Taym]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: taym

Better than nothing. Maybe in 2 years from now you'll want to replace your laptop anyway. Not ideal, I agree, but still...
Here I'd have no hope to get anything done after warranty expires. It is actually good you can do that in the UK.


I think 2 years is a little optimistic. The first GPU lasted just over a year, the second one is showing signs of likely failure after not much longer.

Having the consumer rights in the UK is one thing, whether I'll actually be able to enforce them is quite another wink

Actually I guess it was me being optimistic with the phrase "long term problem" !


Edited by andy (10/11/2010 06:38)
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#339329 - 10/11/2010 10:37 Re: Vista badness [Re: andy]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
You'd think that model should be recalled, but then again, it's taken a class-action suit against HP to get them to do anything. Maybe you should start a class-action suit against Dell? I'd think plenty of lawyers would be interested after the win against HP for the same thing.
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#339331 - 10/11/2010 12:40 Re: Vista badness [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
It isn't one model, it is dozens and dozens of models from both Dell and HP. And of course your beloved Apple wink

I can't start a class action, there is no such thing in the UK (except in very exceptional cases and even then it isn't the same as US class action).

Also, the US win isn't just against HP, it also cover Dell and Apple.

http://www.nvidiasettlement.com/affectedmodels.html


Edited by andy (10/11/2010 12:42)
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#341039 - 13/01/2011 05:30 Nvidia Settlement [Re: gbeer]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
The details of what replacement computers are being supplied are now available.

They are offering this Eee PC T101MT to replace my HP TX1119us.

I'm not sure it's a fair replacement.

edit: actually I'm pretty sure it isn't.


Edited by gbeer (13/01/2011 05:32)
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#341040 - 13/01/2011 05:35 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: gbeer]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I couldn't agree more, a completely different machine in just about every way.
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#341041 - 13/01/2011 05:57 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: andy]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Both are convertible to tablet form.

Eee touch screen, HP not
Eee 3x battery life vs HP
Eee intel graphics, HP Nvidia but buggy
Eee 1024x600, HP 1280x800
Eee 1gb ram, HP 2gb
Eee os ambigous mostlikely 7 starter, hp vista
Eee no dvd, HP LightScribe Super Multi 8X DVD±R/RW with Double Layer Support
Eee 10.1" diaplay, hp 12.1" display
Eee 2.86lbs, HP 4.18lbs
Eee 264mm(W)x181mm(D)x31mm(H), HP 8.82"(L) x 12.05"(W) x 1.23" (min H)/1.52" (max H)
Eee ATOM 1.66ghz N450 HT, HP 1.8ghz AMD Turion x64 dual core
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#341048 - 13/01/2011 11:44 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: gbeer]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1039
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
Originally Posted By: gbeer
Eee 1024x600, HP 1280x800


This would kill it for me. My laptop has nothing wrong with it except the 1024x768 screen. It's amazing how many web sites are now 1280 wide... The 1024 is annoying.

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#341056 - 13/01/2011 14:50 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: larry818]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: larry818
The 1024 is annoying.


Not nearly as annoying as the 600. This makes a small number of apps painful to use on most netbook screens.
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#341078 - 13/01/2011 22:15 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: Roger]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Hmm, looking over the settlement, it's strange that HP systems are being handled differently then Dell or Apple. The lawsuit was never against any of these companies, but was instead against NVidia directly. NVidia (through some party) is handling the direct repair of the Dell or Apple systems, presumably swapping out the defective chips for ones that don't contain the manufacturing flaw. For HP though, NVidia opted to swap out the systems with "equivalent" systems, in Glenn's case, a system from a completely different manufacturer.

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#341080 - 13/01/2011 22:31 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: drakino]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1039
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
My last HP was crap enough to convince me never to touch another. Maybe NVidia feels the same...

I thought the 600 was strange, it didn't occur to me it would mess up apps.

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#341081 - 13/01/2011 22:38 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: larry818]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
I know at launch (or maybe during beta), Freerealms didn't support 1024x600 properly. All the UI designs assumed at least 720 vertical resolution for widescreen, and 768 for 4:3. A number of other games were the same way, not sure if the netbook popularity changed this.

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#341089 - 14/01/2011 01:00 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: drakino]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
An EeePC as a replacement for that HP? Not that you have much choice but that is a bad replacement and nothing at all like your original HP.

Speaking of resolution, whats going on with monitors and them all switching to 16:9 ratio now? Not many of the 24 inch LCDs on the market are still 1920x1200.

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#341091 - 14/01/2011 01:31 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: tman]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1039
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
It seems all monitors are settling on HD's 1080 resolution, no matter how big. I think it's marginal on a 21" monitor, too low for a 24.

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#341094 - 14/01/2011 02:55 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: larry818]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Economies of scale.
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#341097 - 14/01/2011 04:01 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: gbeer]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1039
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
I understand that, but the pixels are very noticeable on a 24" screen 12" from me eyes...

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#341107 - 14/01/2011 10:07 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: tman]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: tman
Speaking of resolution, whats going on with monitors and them all switching to 16:9 ratio now? Not many of the 24 inch LCDs on the market are still 1920x1200.


That annoys me to no end. You wouldn't think that extra 120 pixels would make a difference, but it is very noticeable to me. It might be time to stockpile a couple 1920x1200s.

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#341108 - 14/01/2011 10:11 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: Tim]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Tim
That annoys me to no end. You wouldn't think that extra 120 pixels would make a difference, but it is very noticeable to me. It might be time to stockpile a couple 1920x1200s.


Yeah - I can't cope with lower than 1650x1050. You just can't get enough on the screen and it's all to blocky.
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#341110 - 14/01/2011 12:36 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: larry818]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: larry818
It seems all monitors are settling on HD's 1080 resolution, no matter how big. I think it's marginal on a 21" monitor, too low for a 24.


There are lots of higher-end monitors at 1920x1200. Mostly those use IPS or better technologies, and carry a higher price tag to match.

Here, we picked up a pair of ASUS 25.5" displays, 1920x1200, for $260 each, plus the hope of someday getting $30 (each) back from that on a MIR. Not IPS tech, but good enough for programming and web use.

Our (Dell) notebooks also have 1920x1200 resolution screens.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (14/01/2011 12:39)

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#341111 - 14/01/2011 13:35 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: mlord]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
The low-end panels are clearly driven by the TV 1080p market. It's interesting that low-end LCD HDTVs are still 720p when 1080p computer monitors are now so incredibly cheap.

Meanwhile, if you want to go up a size larger, to a 27" panel at 2560x1440, you pay dearly. Dell wants $1100 and Apple wants $900 (if bought via B&H, otherwise $1000).

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#341112 - 14/01/2011 13:43 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: mlord]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: mlord
Here, we picked up a pair of ASUS 25.5" displays, 1920x1200, for $260 each, plus the hope of someday getting $30 (each) back from that on a MIR. Not IPS tech, but good enough for programming and web use.

I've heard some bad things about those displays. People have complained about a blue tint over the display which they couldn't get rid of. It might not be really widespread, but enough to make me leery without seeing the exact one I buy before putting the money down.

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#341137 - 14/01/2011 20:00 Re: Nvidia Settlement [Re: Tim]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
I read all of the "blue tint" messages, and frankly I don't see it on either of these. Depending on the settings, of course. There are several built-in "scene presets" or some such thing, some of which are more blue than yellow.

I put mine on "night view mode", and the colours are decent from the factory. Each preset can then be customized for the colour tone of choice, so what's the issue here?? Nothing.

I have not yet dug out my display calibration gizmo to fine tune it for photography. Internally, this display is probably using 6 or 7 bit colour, rather than the 10-12 bit colour of a high-end IPS monitor.

Cheers


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