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#343017 - 02/03/2011 16:46 iPad 2 - thin is in.
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Currently following the live-blog over at Engadget. Just hopped on 15 minutes ago, so now I'm caught up and waiting for new content.

Steve's looking more frail than ever, I genuinely feel sympathy for him. I don't think he's on the road to recovery...

Back to tech...

The specs and features look interesting along with the all-new physical design. In many ways, even though so much is new, it will seem like a speed-bump because the most interactive part, the OS, is only undergoing a small version bump.

About the only thing I'm disappointed at that they weren't able to reduce the number of SKUs and add more memory at the same price points.

I don't really have any time to discuss this today as I need to wrap up a ton of stuff including some commercial invoices before I head out for a long weekend ski trip to Quebec.

With rumors of another iPad update for the fall (similar to how many Apple notebooks get two updates), I'm currently flip-flopping on whether to get an iPad 2 in a few months or just wait until October.


Edited by hybrid8 (02/03/2011 17:20)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343018 - 02/03/2011 16:57 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Now they're showing off some nice looking apps. As well as "setting the bar for developers" this is really showing up all the other tablets out there, because none of them are going to have software that's this polished or this immersive. At least not for a long time.

I suspect the iPad will sell more units in 2011 than all other copy-cat tablet devices combined, something it already did very easily in 2010. Unfortunately this isn't going to help Apple reconsider their stiff subscription model and developer revenue sharing. Because at 30%, let's face it, it's not a service or transaction fee, it's revenue sharing.

Apple has made close to $1 BILLION on app sales so far. Developers have (as a whole) of course made 2x that, the number Apple announced at this event.

It's over... But no "one more thing..." - I miss that.


Edited by hybrid8 (02/03/2011 17:23)
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343021 - 02/03/2011 18:15 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
But no "one more thing..." - I miss that.


Yea me too, I was hoping for "We know me.com is shit! We know it's slow, over priced and hardly does anything you want it to. So, we've come up with this great idea of doing it all really fast, for free and actually letting you check your feckin email on any god damm browser you want!"

If I didn't like it's sync features so much I'd get rid of it. Hurry up Apple!!! Rant over.

Cheers

Cris

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#343022 - 02/03/2011 18:52 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Cris]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
The only reason I had .mac/me.com was the 'find my iPhone' feature, then they went and made it free. I never used the email/calendar/gallery stuff as Gmail and Flickr already provided what I need. So when my renewal comes up later this year, I think I'll let it lapse.

Oh yes, the iPad 2 looks really nice. I was going to buy one this year, but I still have absolutely no use for it. So I'm going to get a new MacBook Pro instead and wait for its sucessor.
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Andy M

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#343023 - 02/03/2011 18:55 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Cris]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
I can't argue that it's a great piece of hardware. They've [supposedly] extremely improved the performance, and not harmed the cost or battery life.

They've really raised the bar, and as usual the other guys only passed Apple's product just as the new one comes out.

I'm still an Android guy, and can only hope to have a suitable substitute.

*edit*
ps- one tiny nit-pick: we have the standard horribly over-priced Apple dongle once again. In order to connect the iPad 2 to your TV with a $3 HDMI cable, you have to buy a $39 dongle.


Edited by Dignan (02/03/2011 18:59)
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Matt

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#343024 - 02/03/2011 19:14 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dignan
...In order to connect the iPad 2 to your TV with a $3 HDMI cable, you have to buy a $39 dongle.
Give the aftermarket a few months.

I suspect we will see a tidy iPad2 to HDMI single cable or compact adapter become available. Something slicker than having that somewhat bulky Apple adapter hanging off the iPad.

Perhaps something like this. Or even smaller, I hope.

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#343026 - 02/03/2011 19:36 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Pretty much an as expected event. A bit disappointed they didn't preview iOS 5, maybe they will do that at a separate event later this month. Late March/Early April tends to be when they shift focus to the next OS with developer betas, for release in June alongside new iPhone hardware.

Also kinda interesting that they didn't unify the 3G model, so now there are 9 SKUs instead of 6. Maybe the iPad 2 was too far along to use the same chip they put in the Verizon iPhone that is capable of running on both GSM and CDMA networks.

Originally Posted By: Dignan
ps- one tiny nit-pick: we have the standard horribly over-priced Apple dongle once again. In order to connect the iPad 2 to your TV with a $3 HDMI cable, you have to buy a $39 dongle.

I'll take a $39 dongle over a $55 wifi activation fee smile It is good to see display mirroring, should help make the iPad 2 even more popular in education or business meetings.

iOS 4.3 is going to be useful for the iTunes home sharing and computer to iPad Airplay. This should help cut down on the number of items I manually sync to the iPad. It's also an interesting cutoff point. Seems the iPhone 3G and iPod Touch 2nd gen will be ending their iOS upgrades at 4.2.

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#343031 - 02/03/2011 19:57 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
MMmm... still no GPS. Pass.

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#343033 - 02/03/2011 20:14 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: mlord]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
GPS is in the 3G models like last time.

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#343034 - 02/03/2011 20:35 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: drakino]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: drakino
GPS is in the 3G models like last time.

That's not GPS. That's "cell tower triangulation".

Cheers

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#343035 - 02/03/2011 20:41 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: mlord]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
No, it's GPS.
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Andy M

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#343036 - 02/03/2011 20:47 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: andym]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
And yes, it works even without a cellular data plan active. Both my iPad and iPhone 4 knew my exact location down to a few feet when I was in west Texas with no cellular coverage. Made for some good stargazing with the help of Star Walk.

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#343037 - 02/03/2011 20:50 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: andym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: andym
No, it's GPS.


Got a link that shows the actual hardware used in the iPad?

Thanks.

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#343038 - 02/03/2011 20:55 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: mlord]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Okay, googling around I found this thread, where post #29 confirms first-hand experience with "true GPS" in the iPad mk1/3G.

Shame one has to purchase an expensive doorstop 3G card just for a $5 GPS chip.

Cheers

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#343039 - 02/03/2011 20:57 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: mlord]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Originally Posted By: mlord
Originally Posted By: andym
No, it's GPS.


Got a link that shows the actual hardware used in the iPad?

Thanks.


http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-3G-Teardown/2374/2#s11723
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Andy M

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#343040 - 02/03/2011 20:57 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: mlord]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-3G-Teardown/2374/1

Scroll down, it's on the communications board. Broadcom A-GPS BCM47501UBG. This is from the initial iPad, the iPad 2 may change chips.

*edit* and the datasheet in PDF form, confirming the chip tracks up to 24 satellites (and not cell towers).


Edited by drakino (02/03/2011 21:00)

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#343041 - 02/03/2011 21:17 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
If it's the same chip as the iPhone 4, then I'll confirm it's excellent. GPS is the only reason I'd consider getting the 3G upgrade. Apple is taking a nice extra slice of profit on that upgrade, perhaps to make up for the lower margins on the entry level WiFi model.

I was really hoping to see a 128GB model...

DAMN! That HDMI dongle works with iPhone 4, iPod Touch and the original iPad as well.

This guy from ComputerWorld thinks the Xoom is a better tablet than the iPad 2. Wow, is he ever out to lunch. I can't believe this guy would be capable of holding a position at McDonald's let alone a magazine. Seriously, that bad.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/17907/motorola_xoom_versus_the_ipad_2_the_xoom_is_a_clear_winner


Edited by hybrid8 (02/03/2011 21:26)
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#343059 - 03/03/2011 11:39 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: mlord]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 998
This looks interesting....

http://www.gns-gmbh.com/index.php?id=194&L=1

... there are also cradles for the iTouch (don't know about the iPad) but all this seems a bit pricy.

I might get a Samsung galaxy YP-GB1 when they come out here.

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#343072 - 03/03/2011 17:33 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: K447]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: K447
Originally Posted By: Dignan
...In order to connect the iPad 2 to your TV with a $3 HDMI cable, you have to buy a $39 dongle.
Give the aftermarket a few months.

I suspect we will see a tidy iPad2 to HDMI single cable or compact adapter become available. Something slicker than having that somewhat bulky Apple adapter hanging off the iPad.

Perhaps something like this. Or even smaller, I hope.

I'd love for there to be a competing aftermarket product, but while I'm well aware of Monoprice (I've talked about it many times on the forums here before), did you actually search the site? You won't find any cables for iProducts. There are some wall and car chargers, but they're USB chargers, so technically they charge anything.

Do accessory companies need to pay Apple a license to use the 30-pin connector?


Edited by Dignan (03/03/2011 17:33)
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Matt

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#343083 - 03/03/2011 21:41 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Originally Posted By: Dignan

ps- one tiny nit-pick: we have the standard horribly over-priced Apple dongle once again. In order to connect the iPad 2 to your TV with a $3 HDMI cable, you have to buy a $39 dongle.


Well, technically it's an displayport to HDMI converter, not just a bunch of wires and a connector... but I guess others will make cheaper ones.

Actually, I think they have already. I've definitely seen 3rd party HDMI adaptors for the iPad/iPhone... (googles... http://www.buy.com/prod/noosy-iphone-4-4.../220194569.html ... but they're all more expensive than the new apple one...)

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#343084 - 03/03/2011 21:48 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: drakino]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
I've no idea why they call a GPS chip that can operate totally autonomously (no hinting or almanac download from a network) "AGPS". Maybe it makes it an easier sell to phone vendors?!

Freaky.

In general GPS has gone with 3G because 3G cell triangulation sucks due to the closed loop power control... hence why, for E911 requirements, 3G phones suddenly all grew AGPS functionality. That doesn't explain why the iPad has it with the 3G though, unless it shares the same antenna (possible, I'd have to look at the iFixit teardown in a bit over a week wink )

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#343085 - 03/03/2011 21:51 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Do accessory companies need to pay Apple a license to use the 30-pin connector?


Yes, though I have no idea what it is, and I know that some use clone connectors and so sidestep it. The whole "made for iphone" logo marking means approved vendor, device meets apple spec, etc.

You wouldn't believe how bad, electrically, some of the unapproved accessories are. Seriously, it'd be hilarious if they weren't blowing up my stuff smile

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#343107 - 04/03/2011 02:38 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: altman]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: altman
... I've definitely seen 3rd party HDMI adaptors for the iPad/iPhone... (googles... http://www.buy.com/prod/noosy-iphone-4-4.../220194569.html ...
The Noosy HDMI Adapter seems to have this limitation;
Do not support the movies that were purchased through iTunes or locked with Apple's Fairplay copy protection scheme.

Does the official Apple HDMI adpator also have this limitation?

I am impressed that the iPhone 4 can do 1080 video. Not actually tried it - yet.

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#343108 - 04/03/2011 03:04 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: K447]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: K447
I am impressed that the iPhone 4 can do 1080 video. Not actually tried it - yet.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't do 1080. The AppleTV doesn't do it, and it has the same chip. It might be capable of it, but I question the ability to use that adapter to get "1080P High Ddfinition"
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Matt

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#343110 - 04/03/2011 03:12 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Originally Posted By: K447
I am impressed that the iPhone 4 can do 1080 video. Not actually tried it - yet.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't do 1080...
I haven't tried it at all, but this guy says it can (jailbroken)

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#343113 - 04/03/2011 05:00 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: drakino]
adavidw
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Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Also kinda interesting that they didn't unify the 3G model, so now there are 9 SKUs instead of 6.


Actually, 18 SKUs if you're counting both the black and white models. I don't know if Apple's had this many SKUs for what's essentially one product since the Performa days.
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#343114 - 04/03/2011 05:05 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: altman]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
Originally Posted By: altman
Well, technically it's an displayport to HDMI converter, not just a bunch of wires and a connector...


So, are the newest iOS devices DisplayPort internally? I was just assuming they use whatever display signaling stuff is built into the SOC, but is that all DisplayPort now?
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-Aaron

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#343115 - 04/03/2011 05:31 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: K447]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Originally Posted By: K447
The Noosy HDMI Adapter seems to have this limitation;
Do not support the movies that were purchased through iTunes or locked with Apple's Fairplay copy protection scheme.

Does the official Apple HDMI adpator also have this limitation?

I am impressed that the iPhone 4 can do 1080 video. Not actually tried it - yet.


I'm sure the Apple HDMI adaptor can play 720p protected movies with HDCP enabled on the HDMI end; they specifically refer to movies in the description of the adpator.

Possibly the 3rd party ones are just using a non-HDCP compatible chip?

iPhone4 can't do 1080p I'm afraid. The iPad2 says it'll do 1080p for mirroring mode (presumably to fit a portrait 1024 pixel screen), but also doesn't mention video. I can't say more than the page says.

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#343116 - 04/03/2011 05:33 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: adavidw]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Originally Posted By: adavidw
Originally Posted By: altman
Well, technically it's an displayport to HDMI converter, not just a bunch of wires and a connector...


So, are the newest iOS devices DisplayPort internally? I was just assuming they use whatever display signaling stuff is built into the SOC, but is that all DisplayPort now?


Well, it's DP on the dock connector - if you crack open one of the VGA adaptors that has been around since the iPad came out, you'll see a DP->VGA chip.

Remember Apple design these SoCs. Not many HDMI ports on apple products, apart from the AppleTV smile

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#343462 - 17/03/2011 03:57 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: altman]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868


Petty strong magnets (all 15 of them)

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#343473 - 17/03/2011 12:12 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The last tear-down said there were 21 magnets in the smart cover alone. And another 10 in the iPad. Though I'm not sure how much fridge testing was done before release. wink
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343475 - 17/03/2011 13:32 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: adavidw]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: adavidw

Actually, 18 SKUs if you're counting both the black and white models.


That number blew me away in fact. They do have a ton of variations of all their products, but those others have traditionally been managed as BTO (build to order) configurations, with a limited set of standard configurations for shelf-stocking.

One thing is crystal clear right now however. All 18 of those SKUs seem to be selling out everywhere. wink I think I might pick up an older first-gen iPad if I can get "the right price" and then see what happens toward the end of the year with regards to the refresh rumors.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343477 - 17/03/2011 13:57 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
The refurbs are a good deal at the moment (in the UK at least). My 80 year old father just picked up a 16GB wifi iPad for £289.

If it was most other companies (the Dell outlet store being the other exception that springs to mind), I would never have thought of recommending a refurb to him.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#343748 - 25/03/2011 12:32 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: andy]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
From the mouth of an 8th grader:

Quote:
The iPad only does less than a regular computer to us geeks. To everyone else, it does more. This is what Motorola and Google and Samsung and BlackBerry and everyone else, with the sole exception of Apple, do not get about “open” computing.


http://jpteti.com/post/4072771125/the-ipad-is-99-more-open-than-any-other-computer

There are a few instances where the text needs minor editing, but it's a great read. From an 8th grader. Nice.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343749 - 25/03/2011 13:01 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
wfaulk
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Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
No, it sounds exactly like an essay from an 8th grader. There's very little there beyond hearsay: "All my friends think that the iPad can do more than a laptop."


Edited by wfaulk (25/03/2011 13:02)
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Bitt Faulk

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#343750 - 25/03/2011 13:05 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I'm not sure the word "open" is correct. But I agree with what has says about iOS meaning that normal people buy software now.

Before iOS, normal people, in their private life, just didn't buy software (unless it was gamers buying games). iOS changed all that, normal humans actually buy software now.
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#343751 - 25/03/2011 13:25 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
canuckInOR
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Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
No, it sounds exactly like an essay from an 8th grader. There's very little there beyond hearsay: "All my friends think that the iPad can do more than a laptop."

And who do you think represent the not-so-in-the-future market for computing?

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#343752 - 25/03/2011 13:36 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
No, it sounds exactly like an essay from an 8th grader.


I guess you don't do as much tech reading as I do. smile More than a handful of bloggers and tech journalists, not to mention analysts, could learn a thing or two from such an 8th grader.

Or maybe my expectations of what an 8th grader would have to say fall more in line with the typical comment section of any tech blog.

He's distilled the meaning of "open" to the general populace. It's not whether you can compile your own code or run Flash, it's about the experience and the platform's ability to be adopted by the average joe. Open in the sense of accessible and inviting. That's what seems to matter to everyone buying these things.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343753 - 25/03/2011 14:17 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Sorry. I forgot for a second that you're obsessed with marketing.
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Bitt Faulk

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#343755 - 25/03/2011 14:36 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
And sales Bitt. Don't forget sales.

Seriously though, this has nothing to do with marketing. I just thought it was refreshing to see a well spoken 8th grader who seems to grasp what so many pundits miss.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343756 - 25/03/2011 14:50 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
He may grasp it, and he may write better than your typical tech pundit, but he still writes like an 8th grader.
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Bitt Faulk

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#343758 - 25/03/2011 16:14 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
He may grasp it, and he may write better than your typical tech pundit, but he still writes like an 8th grader.
Bitt, I must [not-so] respectfully disagree.

The typical 8th grader, no, the typical high-school senior, writes like the semi-literate clod that he is, with misspellings, incomprehensible grammar and sentence structure, and not the faintest idea of how to present ideas in a logical sequence.

Why do you think that 82% of college freshman are required to take remedial English courses?

I think your expectations are too high, possibly being biased by exposure to the extraordinary competence of most of the people on this bbs.

"Wen I started Colege I cudnt evin spel jurnalist, and now I are one!" smile

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#343759 - 25/03/2011 17:18 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: tanstaafl.]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
Why do you think that 82% of college freshman are required to take remedial English courses?

Because there are a significant number of college freshmen for whom English is a second (or even third) language?

As quoted, the statistic is meaningless.

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#343760 - 25/03/2011 17:32 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
He's distilled the meaning of "open" to the general populace. It's not whether you can compile your own code or run Flash, it's about the experience and the platform's ability to be adopted by the average joe. Open in the sense of accessible and inviting. That's what seems to matter to everyone buying these things.

So the way to start calling Apple and iOS as "open" is to change your definition of "open?"
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Matt

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#343761 - 25/03/2011 17:58 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
No. You're missing the point. It's not about being open to hacking, it's about being an open and welcoming experience.

Anyway, I just thought it was a neat blog post, a positive effort by an 8th grader and it just generally made me smile.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343762 - 25/03/2011 18:31 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
1080p video output from the iPad2 while using its own display for additional content... WOW.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/25/real-racing-2-hd-update-might-just-make-you-get-an-av-adapter-fo/

In this case it's Real Racing 2 on a large screen TV @ 1080p with the iPad acting as controller and map. Impressive.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343763 - 25/03/2011 19:23 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
No. You're missing the point. It's not about being open to hacking, it's about being an open and welcoming experience.

"Open to hacking?" When was that the definition of "open?" That's what I'm talking about. I completely understand what you're saying you and this kid are defining "open" to be, but you were missing my point, which is that it isn't what anyone has definined "open" to be up to this point. This wouldn't be a problem because I agree with what you're saying about the welcoming experience, except that you're using this new definition as an argument against the previous definition.

*edit*
naturally, I'll take this discussion to Tom's new thread


Edited by Dignan (25/03/2011 19:36)
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Matt

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#343765 - 25/03/2011 19:34 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: tanstaafl.]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
He may grasp it, and he may write better than your typical tech pundit, but he still writes like an 8th grader.
Bitt, I must [not-so] respectfully disagree.

The typical 8th grader, no, the typical high-school senior, writes like the semi-literate clod that he is, with misspellings, incomprehensible grammar and sentence structure, and not the faintest idea of how to present ideas in a logical sequence.

Why do you think that 82% of college freshman are required to take remedial English courses?

I think your expectations are too high, possibly being biased by exposure to the extraordinary competence of most of the people on this bbs.

"Wen I started Colege I cudnt evin spel jurnalist, and now I are one!" smile

Wow, I'm surprised your post didn't include the phrase "kids these days," or "whippersnappers."

I was going to write a longer response, but instead I'll point out the irony of your criticism of the literacy of today's children by pointing out that you stated "82% of college freshman," when the story you linked was specifically talking about percentages of community college freshmen. *edit* Just read it again, and it's even more specific: it's a single school they're talking about */edit*

Now, I'm not criticizing community colleges. Virginia has an excellent CC system. But to make that claim for the entirety of Colleges and Universities in the country based on one story about California community colleges is just plain misinformed.
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Matt

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#343767 - 25/03/2011 19:50 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Matt, "open" has a lot of definitions and they're all in the dictionary. Open doesn't have to have anything in particular to do with software and I wasn't trying to make any type of argument against open software development. Or trying to put one definition of open against its use in another.

It's a "look, this is what people are saying. Look, this is what people are doing," type of post. I don't have an agenda here.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343773 - 25/03/2011 20:45 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: Dignan
But to make that claim for the entirety of Colleges and Universities in the country based on one story about California community colleges is just plain misinformed.
You are correct.

I allowed my experiences hiring people and reading resumés to bias my thinking. I won't quote any more badly researched statistics, but I will not back off from my statement about semi-literate clods. This 8th grader in his blog wrote far better than the majority of people who expected me to hire them, people who were high school and even college graduates. I was apalled reading job applications and CVs.

Yeah, you young whippersnappers just have no idea... smile smile

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#343775 - 25/03/2011 21:41 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: tanstaafl.]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
The typical 8th grader … writes … with … not the faintest idea of how to present ideas in a logical sequence.

I will give you that he speaks in complete sentences, which is head-and-shoulders above most adults. I was thinking more of his line of thinking, which I think is indicative of an 8th grader. (Not, again, that most adults think any better.)

He states that teenagers are bellwethers of up-and-coming technology. He supports this by noting that all of his friends have either an iPhone or an Android phone, one specifically getting the Droid shortly after it was released. I can assume that very few adults have smartphones. I know that I've been avoiding getting one. This four-year-old revolution in portable computing amongst the (then) 10-year-olds almost passed me by.

He argues that it's understandable that the iPad is seen as doing more than a laptop because it has applications that people use, like Facebook, YouTube, and web browsing, built into it. I know that when I got my new laptop, it was a struggle to get all the software installed that I needed in order to access those web sites, and web sites in general.

He argues that the iPad is opening up technology by allowing people to install new apps and otherwise tinker with the computer.

He argues that allowing people to install new apps and otherwise tinker with the computer, when under the guise of such dinosaurs as Motorola and Google, is too open — too powerful. (Man, I feel sorry for that friend of his who got rooked with the Droid. I hope he's less bellwether-y than his clearly superior iPhone-owning peers.)

He argues that the version of Mac OS X is going to help Apple's PC sales. He supports this by noting that people think that the iPad is more open. (I guess all those non-geeks are now in love with everything Apple, but thought they'd hold off for a version update on the base OS.)

Obviously, I'm exaggerating to some extent, and being overly harsh; he clearly writes better than most people. And I like the iPhone (and iPad, theoretically). In many ways they're better than their Android equivalents, especially for non-geeks. I think his basic thesis is probably fairly accurate. But how you can present this as a guide to logical thinking is dumbfounding to me. It smacks of the spastic mind of an 8th grader. Sadly, many adults have that same trait.
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#343776 - 25/03/2011 22:45 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
It was simple, but well written. BTW, the aspects of the new Mac OS he's talking about are the launcher and full-screen app modes. Essentially a single-task view on an multi-tasting system, like iOS.

I guess I'm easily impressed when someone can string together coherent sentences and doesn't improperly use apostrophes. Huge pet peeve.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343806 - 26/03/2011 20:09 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Don't bother buying an iPad 2. The tablet thing is a fad and no one is clearly interested in this latest round of products from Apple and their "ilk."

http://www.macworld.com/article/158849/2011/03/macalope_noyes.html

If you want a laugh (or a sobbing cry) go read the original article the Macalope cuts to pieces in that link.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343810 - 27/03/2011 00:51 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Don't bother buying an iPad 2. The tablet thing is a fad and no one is clearly interested in this latest round of products from Apple and their "ilk."

http://www.macworld.com/article/158849/2011/03/macalope_noyes.html

Whatever I think about it (and I actually don't completely agree with her), the original review was pretty even-keeled, and the responder comes off as a raving buffoon to me.
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Matt

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#343811 - 27/03/2011 01:58 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Katherine Noyes is a long-time Anti-Apple zealot. And The Macalope writes in character, shooting straight from the hip. Anything even remotely factual from the original article, and there isn't much, has been twisted and contorted beyond nearly any recognition with spite and hate. It's so painfully obvious that Noyes has an agenda that she might as well have included it in bold face at the start of the article.

Frankly, I'm really shocked by your reply. I don't even know how anyone could read the original story and take it as anything but a spiteful hate piece. There's simply nothing credible about it at all.

What I'm most interested in is how she's going to spin her angle over the next few years as she's continually proven wrong by Apple and other tablet manufacturers.

While the Macalope is always colorful, at least he was completely accurate in everything reported, including his assessment of Katherine Noyes.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343815 - 27/03/2011 05:02 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I have to agree with Bruno here, the original "review" was just ludicrous. The best bit was criticising Apple for being 3 months ahead of the competition, just odd.

Though I can see how one might find the Macalope somewhat uncompromising when you come across it for the first time and are unaware of the tongue in cheek way it is written wink
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#343816 - 27/03/2011 08:27 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: andy]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Hate to say it, but I agree with Bruno, she comes off as a complete loon.
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#343818 - 27/03/2011 11:52 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: andym]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Okay, I read it again, and it did come off as a little crazier. I guess I wasn't a fan of either writer smile And for some reason I just really dislike the nickname "Macalope." I don't know why it grates on me smile (know, it's not because the word "Mac" is in there)

But I will say, some of the things she talks about have been stated by other tech journalists. Many of the podcasters I listen to have thought the iPad 2 was mostly incremental improvements in hardware. They stop there, though, and don't minimize its importance or how well it will do despite those incremental improvements like she did. But they definitely have talked about the hardware being something that could easily be surpassed.

In the end, I'm actually surprised that Ms Noyes didn't harp on the one area that most reviewers have: the quality of the cameras. Every review I've seen (that wasn't from the Grubers of the world) has panned the cameras. Again, they don't say that's an impediment to the iPad 2's success, they just point out that the cameras are awful, and that Apple decided not to put the iPhone's cameras in there.

Anyway, I'll concede this one, Bruno wink She's definitely incorrect. I didn't even agree with her the first time I read it. I mean, even this Google fanboy knows that the Xoom has zero chance of making a dent in the iPad's market share smile
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#343819 - 27/03/2011 12:08 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The cameras suck. Big time. But to be fair (not to Apple), I think Gruber did say the same thing. The cameras in the iPod are equally crap, likely because they're the same parts. I'm not even a huge fan of the camera in the iPhone, though it's leaps and bounds better.

And no one (including myself, Gruber and the Macalope) is arguing that Apple's update is not incremental. Definitely not revolutionary like the first revision. But let's be real. No one had caught up to the first version yet. The revision is over 2 times faster with graphics easily 9x faster, putting all dedicated gaming hardware to shame except the PS3 and XBOX 360 by all accounts. In an 8.8mm thick tablet of all things.

Even if you discount the insanely positive response from customers around the globe, the other players in the industry have already also been remarking and changing their business plans because of this incremental product. MOtorola has commented that it's their SECOND Xoom that will be the ticket. Samsung has stopped plans to release the tablets they debuted a couple of months ago in most markets and have instead started working on something else to come out in June - something they don't even have ready to show prototypes of.

There are a number of companies out there that can come out with something that blows the iPad away in terms of specs. But when many people talk about this, they forget that Apple itself is also one of those companies. Most people forget that Apple has more money, more manufacturing capacity, better supply management and (of all things) a better track record than anyone else. But this isn't a specs race anyway. It's not specs that are obviously selling this product.

But to brush it all off as marketing tricks is also completely out to lunch. There's an emotional tie, but after using one it's not difficult to form a rational decision as to the many uses one can put such a product to.

If anything, Noyes article was fueled more by emotion than the purchasing habits of the people buying tablets. Most of of whom are Windows PC users by the way. The numbers just can't reflect anything else.

Even though I'm getting one myself, I still feel pretty much the same way about tablets as I did prior to the iPad launch and which I've talked about here. I can see a ton of vertical/dedicated uses for one, even around my house, but it's not a product I'd be likely to use or carry around constantly. My impetus at this point is to get my 18mo daughter using technology.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343821 - 27/03/2011 16:55 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
This is pretty awesome. I was not aware of whatever advances in glassmaking make this possible.



Warning: The soundtrack is some awful dub/ska, and it's really loud. Turn down your volume.
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Bitt Faulk

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#343822 - 27/03/2011 17:21 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Neat! Makes me want flexible displays even more. Not that I think it would be useful, just so that they'd have some give to them and not be as susceptible to damage.

(thanks for the warning on the music - awful)
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Matt

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#343823 - 27/03/2011 18:10 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Hey man, my band and I worked a long time on that song.

The glass is laminated to the touch sensor, so that's going to help it hold together, but yeah, it was pretty remarkable seeing it deflect 2 inches. I watched the video for the first time earlier this week.

I'm really hoping that in the next iteration they can mange to get the LCD right up against the glass so it doesn't look like there's a small gap. That's how the iPhone's screen is put together and the effect enhances the appearance significantly. Or looked at a different way, it makes the glass less apparent, as if you're interacting directly with the pixels.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#343837 - 28/03/2011 16:13 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: hybrid8]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
FWIW, got my (wife's) iPad 2 on Friday and I'm officially addicted. Come the first of the month I'm probably going to order one for myself.

I think the new cover is great- keeps it VERY slim and I love that it shuts off when you put the cover on top.

My favorite app thus far is OnSong for being able to display lead sheets for church music. It's kind of a pain to create the content, but once it's there it's awesome to be able to bring up a song, transpose as necessary, and then show the chords to the worship team. It's only too bad I can't get an iPad for each worship team member!
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Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#343851 - 28/03/2011 22:55 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: JeffS]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
That flexibility is mostly because of how thin the glass is. I recall handling some samples of the glass that was used in LCD's about 10yrs ago. That stuff could be rolled way past making a half pipe. As I recall it was about .020" thk and maybe 15" wide.
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#343871 - 30/03/2011 08:13 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: gbeer]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Wow, the lead time on these things is pretty long! Ordered one for my parents from apple.com on Sunday and its telling me now that estimated delivery is 4th May. A little gutted really. I suppose it would have be worth joining the queue of eager iFans at the Apple Store. Oh well.
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#343872 - 30/03/2011 10:01 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: sein]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Yeah, I just did order a second iPad for myself, and the lead time is crazy. I ordered my wife's the day they became available and just received it last Friday. The second one I ordered has an expected date of early May. Seems the demands is very high for these . . .
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#343878 - 30/03/2011 17:41 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: sein]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: sein
... I suppose it would have be worth joining the queue of eager iFans at the Apple Store. Oh well.
Apparently you can monitor iPad 2 inventory at Target stores near your location and put yourself at the right place at the right time when the (limited) inventory arrives smile

http://log.maniacalrage.net/post/4030658171/tip-how-to-get-an-ipad-2-at-target-today-i

Apparently Target stores receive their daily iPad 2 shipments on a fairly predictable schedule (UPS truck delivery routes?), so you can figure out when in the day to check, and then get yourself to the right store.

Several people have posted various scripts that automate the process. Would be interesting if someone put together a web site that did it all smile Might generate some traffic...


Edited by K447 (30/03/2011 17:47)

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#344012 - 03/04/2011 15:34 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: K447]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: K447
... Would be interesting if someone put together a web site that did it all ...
iPad 2 retail availability tracker web site

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#344025 - 04/04/2011 09:13 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: K447]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Haha, this reminds me of when I got my Wii. Same process trying to get in just after the shipment time at target.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#344055 - 05/04/2011 10:08 Re: iPad 2 - thin is in. [Re: JeffS]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Cheaper Than an iPad 2: At End of Emails, Type ‘Sent from my iPad 2'

Funny, even though the iPad 2 only puts 'Sent from my iPad' at the end of your emails by default . . .


Edited by JeffS (05/04/2011 10:10)
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Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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