Unoffical empeg BBS

Quick Links: Empeg FAQ | RioCar.Org | Hijack | BigDisk Builder | jEmplode | emphatic
Repairs: Repairs

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#347729 - 04/10/2011 17:02 iPhone 4S
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Gratuitous summary based on the Engadget liveblog: Same case (more or less), unified GSM/CDMA radio section, faster A5 CPU/GPU, new 8MP camera that supports 1080p video, new fancy voice recognition. Also, the iPhone 3GS lives on as a "free with contract" phone. There is no "iPhone 5" as was rumored to have a larger screen, etc.

And, apple.com is currently giving me:
Quote:
Access Denied

You don't have permission to access "http://www.apple.com/" on this server.
Reference #18.33f9ea3f.1317754461.539f56f

Somebody might want to look into that.

All in all, not bad. The new camera is a definite win. Yeah, sure, my Droid X had an 8MP camera when it came out over a year ago, but the picture quality really sucks, while I imagine Apple's camera doesn't suck at all. Otherwise, the only other part that really catches my attention is the world phone aspect. You can have a phone that does CDMA here in the U.S. and GSM when you visit the rest of the planet. Notably missing is any discussion of LTE or WiMax. Sprint without WiMax isn't very interesting, and of course, a variety of Android devices are available that support these faster networks.

Top
#347732 - 04/10/2011 18:57 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: DWallach]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Apple will have LTE when that technology matures enough to be available in more than select pockets of the US. Remember that the first iPhone didn't have 3G and was only available in the US. Even though some Android handsets do support LTE/WiMax, even if you're located in one of the serviced markets, what exactly is there to do with the increased speed? I don't see very much added benefit unless we're talking about tethering a computer or getting into some mobile bit torrent.

When it comes down to things that matter, the 4S seems like a hit to me. On top of everything they've added, they've kept the exterior with the same fit, finish and dimensions, meaning you can re-use all accessories and they can continue to sell into a market that has made the existing iPhone products #1 with a growing margin.

I suspect Apple may eventually offer a larger screen size, though not at large as some of the enormous handsets that can be found today. If at all possible I would like next year's iPhone to grow only insignificantly in exterior height/width while offering perhaps an additional .5" of diagonal screen size.

The new graphics core at about 7x the performance of the already-excellent iPhone 4 is something a lot of people are glossing over. In terms of software, I think Siri is going to revolutionize this market, even if it does require a data connection.

I wasn't planning on upgrading until next year and the next iPhone model, so I can't say I'm disappointed at all. If I were going to jump to a new model this year, my only disappointment would be that the prices didn't come down (64GB model introduced for old 32GB price, etc..) But it's hardly surprising.

Oh, I'm also looking for a huge play on battery tech from Apple which hasn't happened yet in mobile. Those billions should really be put to use defying the laws of physics. wink The biggest gripe I have with my iPhone 4 is battery life. Like with so many gadgets really.

Apple's stock is taking a beating, but that's probably just sell-off, like with all other events they have, regardless of content. I'm sure it's going to bounce back in a big way (a few days) after their financial results are announced.

If we were to all listen to commentaries at Engadget, we should not be surprised to see Apple fail over the coming year, since this is going to (finally) be Samsung, no Motorola, no, HTC's year. Ok, whatever. wink I expect iOS to gain market over the next 12 months and the iPhone to widen its lead over everything else.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

Top
#347734 - 04/10/2011 19:23 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: hybrid8]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Personally, I think the smartest thing that Apple did was making the iPhone 4 (not 4S) available at a very reasonable $100 w/ contract and the 3GS available free w/ contract. Those low prices, more so than any feature of the 4S, should have a significant impact on maintaining Apple's market share against the onslaught of cheap Android (and Windows Mobile?) gear, particularly since many of the sexy new features of iOS 5 should work just fine on the older phones.

As to 4G/LTE/WiMax, this basically means that there's a big chunk of spectrum being built out that won't be available to iPhone users. That, of all things, gives me a personal incentive to upgrade my own phone so I can get out of the way of all the iPhones and have more bandwidth to myself.

Top
#347735 - 04/10/2011 19:26 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: DWallach]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: DWallach
Those low prices, more so than any feature of the 4S, should have a significant impact on maintaining Apple's market share against the onslaught of cheap Android


Assuredly. Did anyone catch any off-contract prices? I expect them to be the same as they've been for the past year, but it would still be nice to see confirmation.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

Top
#347736 - 04/10/2011 19:32 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: hybrid8]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Did anyone catch any off-contract prices?


Related question: How long ago must I have bought my 4G, to be eligible for the on-contract price of a 4Gs?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#347737 - 04/10/2011 19:42 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: DWallach]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: DWallach
Personally, I think the smartest thing that Apple did was making the iPhone 4 (not 4S) available at a very reasonable $100 w/ contract and the 3GS available free w/ contract.

So I wondered this when reading some summary, but you've just reminded me of it: how does it make sense to quote the up-front price of a contract without quoting the rest of the contract? Surely the Iphone 4 is actually available at a wide range of different up-front prices, depending on how much per month the rest of the contract is, and how long the lock-in is? On Vodafone UK, for instance, the up-front price of an Iphone 4 varies from £299 to £0, and of a 3GS from £199 to £0.

Peter

Top
#347738 - 04/10/2011 19:44 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: DWallach]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: DWallach
There is no "iPhone 5" as was rumored to have a larger screen, etc.

While I think the 4S is a great phone, and my wife will be upgrading to one, I think the tech media is justified in saying that this was a pretty small announcement. My reasoning is that considering this is the first time Apple has had a break between iPhones that was more than a year long, it's a tad surprising that they only did the "S" thing and didn't release a bigger revision to their hardware.

That aside, I think the rest of the let-down is unjustified. The media spends the entire year speculating out of their minds about what Apple is going to release, and the results (as good as they often are) can never live up to the ridiculous expectations. Naturally, Apple is happy to build up the hype, otherwise they wouldn't have these kinds of announcements, but this is what happens.

I do think they should be a little more transparent about their plans. For example, I'm going to be pretty pissed if they release the iPhone 5 in June...
_________________________
Matt

Top
#347739 - 04/10/2011 19:50 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: hybrid8]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Related question: How long ago must I have bought my 4G, to be eligible for the on-contract price of a 4Gs?

It's going to vary by customer. For AT&T and Verizon users, you can check here. For me, it provided the "on launch day" pricing, along with "will drop to $199 on X date".

Originally Posted By: hybrid8
In terms of software, I think Siri is going to revolutionize this market, even if it does require a data connection.

From what I understand, it doesn't always use the data connection. For the assistant, it's all local parsing, with data use for questions that require a data lookup (weather, queries that hit Wolfram alpha, etc). Dictation requires a data connection, similar to Android.

Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Apple will have LTE when that technology matures enough to be available in more than select pockets of the US.

My reading of a no LTE/WiMax version is more power related then market availability. Current WiMax and LTE chips are just too power hungry for what Apple wants. The HTC Thunderbolt in reviews tends to average 3-4 hours of battery life. Unless Apple starts making their own cellular radio chipsets, they are stuck waiting on other companies to push the power demands down.

I'm on the fence. I was planning on skipping this generation, but Siri looks pretty useful. I'll probably wait to play with one in stores before I decide to upgrade.

Top
#347740 - 04/10/2011 20:04 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: drakino
I'm on the fence. I was planning on skipping this generation, but Siri looks pretty useful. I'll probably wait to play with one in stores before I decide to upgrade.

My wife has been jealous of my ability to push a button on my phone and say "note to self: buy milk," and have my phone send me an email with "buy milk" in the subject line. Now, presumably, she'll be able to do that too. I don't think she'll want to do much more than that smile

*edit*

ps- what's with the microphone icon on the keyboard? That's pretty blatant, or at least as blatant as Apple accuses other companies of being...


Edited by Dignan (04/10/2011 20:10)
_________________________
Matt

Top
#347741 - 04/10/2011 20:25 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The only rumors that didn't pan out, off the top of my head are:

Larger screen
Smaller screen
New all aluminum tear-drop shaped enclosure
Lower prices

The first two cancel each other out. The third would have been a disaster as all the mockups looked like crap. And the final one is technically possible if you're willing to buy last year's tech.

I don't think that anyone that says this is a small announcement is justified. Apple only ever does something positively huge every once in a while. The last time was the original iPad. Before that it was the original iPhone.

Cumulatively this is a good upgrade. A wolf in sheep's clothing as it were. I wouldn't be surprised to see an iPhone 5 in June, but it will probably be next September/October. iOS and the iPhone are still a good 2-3 years ahead of anyone else.

_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

Top
#347742 - 04/10/2011 20:31 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I do think they should be a little more transparent about their plans. For example, I'm going to be pretty pissed if they release the iPhone 5 in June...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

Top
#347743 - 04/10/2011 20:52 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: drakino]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Small problem with transparencies on http://www.apple.com/iphone/ when viewed with FF 7.0.1.

Not evident on IE 8.0.something
_________________________
Glenn

Top
#347753 - 05/10/2011 04:49 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: DWallach]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: DWallach
And, apple.com is currently giving me:
Quote:
Access Denied

You don't have permission to access "http://www.apple.com/" on this server.
Reference #18.33f9ea3f.1317754461.539f56f

Somebody might want to look into that.

Anyone have more information on this? I was just getting caught up on my feeds when I came across the attached story bite from This is My Next. But when I click on it I get a 404 and it seems they pulled the story from their site.


Attachments
domainhack.png


_________________________
Matt

Top
#347754 - 05/10/2011 04:52 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: peter]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
Originally Posted By: peter
...how does it make sense to quote the up-front price of a contract without quoting the rest of the contract? Surely the Iphone 4 is actually available at a wide range of different up-front prices, depending on how much per month the rest of the contract is, and how long the lock-in is?


Not in the US, at least. A $99 iPhone 4 is a $99 iPhone 4, whether you sign up for a $50/month plan or a $200/month plan. A 2 year contract is standard now across all carriers in the US, as well.

(Note: I believe T-Mobile had a few plans with sort of a varying subsidy like that, but they don't have the iPhone, so that's sort of irrelevant to this discussion.)
_________________________
-Aaron

Top
#347755 - 05/10/2011 04:55 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: Dignan]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
thisismynext.com apparently got trolled on that and yanked the story after a few minutes. That's what I can gather from Nilay Patel's twitter, at least:

http://twitter.com/#!/reckless
_________________________
-Aaron

Top
#347756 - 05/10/2011 05:19 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: adavidw]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: adavidw
Originally Posted By: peter
...how does it make sense to quote the up-front price of a contract without quoting the rest of the contract? Surely the Iphone 4 is actually available at a wide range of different up-front prices, depending on how much per month the rest of the contract is, and how long the lock-in is?

Not in the US, at least. A $99 iPhone 4 is a $99 iPhone 4, whether you sign up for a $50/month plan or a $200/month plan. A 2 year contract is standard now across all carriers in the US, as well.

(Note: I believe T-Mobile had a few plans with sort of a varying subsidy like that, but they don't have the iPhone, so that's sort of irrelevant to this discussion.)

Yes, T-Mobile had that but they got rid of it a little while ago. I'm still grandfathered in on it with my unsubsidized Nexus One.

Peter, nobody in the US buys phones unsubsidized. The carriers charge one price and that's what you pay.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#347759 - 05/10/2011 08:43 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: Dignan]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Well, almost nobody in the UK buys phones completely unsubsidized either. But people can and do buy at a wide variety of different points on the "razor vs blades" curve. If it's big news that an Iphone 4 is now $99 on contract, whether it's a $50/month or $200/month 2-year contract, surely someone can attract customers by offering their $200/month contract for $204.12/month with a free Iphone 4? Or are there regulatory reasons why not, like maybe guaranteed early exits from the contracts?

Peter

Top
#347763 - 05/10/2011 11:22 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: Dignan]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Quote:
Peter, nobody in the US buys phones unsubsidized. The carriers charge one price and that's what you pay.

That's totally untrue. You could make the case that anyone buying a prepaid phone like the Motorola Triumph, Straight Talk Nokia e71, or LG Optimus is buying an unsubsidized phone, but these phones are still locked to a carrier in some way. I guess because of this, the phone might cost less with a Virgin Mobile logo on it than if you bought it straight-up retail. But, it doesn't take a genius to figure out a $300 Virgin Mobile phone with $35/month plan is a much better value in the long run than a free iPhone 3GS with $100/month plan over 2 years. I don't know about where you are, but the acceptance of these 2nd-tier carriers like Virgin, Metro PCS, Boost, etc is really blowing up.

Also, Apple sells unlocked iPhone in the US. Best Buy even has a section of their retail stores dedicated to unlocked GSM phones. I don't think those two would bother if nobody was buying them. Over the past year, I've purchased at least 5 unlocked phones for myself. I'm considering buying an iPhone 4S, but it would only be unlocked/unsubsidized. I'd probably stick it on H2O's $60 unlimited plan.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

Top
#347765 - 05/10/2011 11:51 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: robricc]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I know I wasn't the first to buy an unlocked and unsubsidized iPhone 4 here in Canada. and by the time I did, I'd already read plenty on the net about others dong the same. So much so that I knew what to check for on the receipt to make sure they didn't process the incorrect serial number with my purchase, thus locking the phone. smile
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

Top
#347770 - 05/10/2011 13:31 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: robricc]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
He was being a little hyperbolic, as (I'm pretty sure) he bought his Nexus One out of contract.

The point is, if you ask a random person on the street, changes are that they aren't going to have any idea where to buy a non-subsidized phone, and almost as high that they're not going to be aware you can do so at all.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

Top
#347772 - 05/10/2011 13:51 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: wfaulk]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Whether people are familiar with the term/concept or not, most prepaid phones are unsubsidized. They're not unlocked, but you can walk into a store, pick a phone off the shelf without a sales agent helping you, and pay anonymously with cash. You can then choose to activate the phone, or let it sit in the box for eternity with no further payment or penalty incurred.

This is my main argument against the statement that nobody in the US buys a phone without some sort of service agreement.

I have employees (factory workers) here that could never afford a free iPhone. But they can afford a $35 flip phone on Boost Mobile 10¢/minute pay as you go plan. Someone I know recently bought some prepaid Verizon dumbphone for $10 at Best Buy. It's being used on a $1/day plan where you only pay $1 on the days you use it.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have credit or the ability/desire to pay for a 2-year cellphone contract. There are more people out there with unsubsidized phones than Engadget or Mac Rumors would have you believe. It's only recently that you've been able to get data and a reasonable smartphone on these no-contract carriers.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

Top
#347774 - 05/10/2011 14:25 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: robricc]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
And you can count myself among those people. I used a Virgin Mobile phone for years, and my wife still does.

I think it's pretty clear that those phones are subsidized, too, albeit perhaps not as much. Lots of the cheaper ones you can get for free. You might be able to make the argument that some of those phones could be made for less than their retail prices, but you cannot make the argument that they can be made for free.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

Top
#347775 - 05/10/2011 14:31 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: wfaulk]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Yeah, it's a grey area I suppose. Because it's locked to a particular network, the phone is of little use to the general population for anything other than its intended purpose. Maybe it costs $20 to manufacture and distribute a dumbphone. I guess the carrier can gamble on offering it for free to get asses in the seats?

In general, however, the phones are freely purchasable with no commitment. You don't even have to activate them before walking out of the store.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

Top
#347776 - 05/10/2011 14:38 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: robricc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
This might be the incentive I finally need to kick AT&T to the curb. I'll have to do more research later to see how the numbers line up. Would be nice to get out of paying for so many unused minutes. How does it work if I get an unlocked iPhone 4GS if I choose a CDMA provider beyond Sprint or Verizon? Do you just call up and register with their customer support?

Top
#347777 - 05/10/2011 14:41 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: drakino]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
You should probably call your other CDMA provider and ask them.

Out of curiosity, what other providers are there? Is there a local one near you or something?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

Top
#347781 - 05/10/2011 15:10 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: wfaulk]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Page Plus is a popular Verizon MVNO if you don't consume a lot of data. They're known to activate Verizon-locked iPhones on their network if you get the right CSR on the phone.

It's too bad the iPhone 4S doesn't support T-Mobile USA's AWS 3G bands. Otherwise, the upcoming Walmart/T-Mobile plan would be really attractive for this device. $30/month for 5GB of 3G data, unlimited text, and 100 minutes of voice would be ideal for me.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

Top
#347782 - 05/10/2011 15:23 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: robricc]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted By: robricc
...They're known to activate Verizon-locked iPhones on their network if you get the right CSR on the phone.

This may seem impossible, but it works this way with GMS phones on AT&T MVNOs also. For example, you can buy a Straight Talk Nokia e71 which is elegible for the $45/month unlimited data/text/talk plan and stick its SIM in your AT&T-locked iPhone without a problem. The only issue you encounter is not being able to change MMS settings on an AT&T-locked iPhone. If you want to send and receive MMS on a locked iPhone with Straight Talk, you need to jailbreak (but not unlock).

The same thing works with H2O which is another AT&T MVNO. However, they actually encourage you to jailbreak/unlock your AT&T iPhone on their website.


Edited by robricc (05/10/2011 15:27)
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

Top
#347787 - 05/10/2011 16:14 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: wfaulk]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Out of curiosity, what other providers are there? Is there a local one near you or something?

Cox did start offering service in my area, likely as an MVNO. It's one of the providers I want to investigate.

Rob's comments basically lit up the idea, now I need to do the research and crunch the numbers. I'm much more comfortable with the idea now then I was a few years ago, mostly due to Apple offering unlocked iPhones in the US. I don't have to worry about the potential support issues with an imported device, nor do I have to jailbreak either. Being able to support both CDMA and GSM is also a big plus, since it opens up a lot more possibilities.

Top
#347792 - 05/10/2011 17:09 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: drakino]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Cox did start offering service in my area, likely as an MVNO. It's one of the providers I want to investigate.

Time Warner Cable was trialing something like that with Sprint a few months back. I'm not a customer of theirs, so I haven't really investigated it. Basically, they wanted to get you to do a quadruple-play under their brand name.

I'm still in contract with AT&T for another few months, but there is no doubt I will be moving on once that's over. I've been playing with all kinds of devices and SIMs over the past year including Straight Talk and T-Mobile prepaid. I don't have any experience with H2O since their unlimited service just started last month, but they're the front-runners now. Their SIMs are sold at Best Buy, so even though their website looks a bit lame, they look like a legit company.

Right now I have an unlocked Samsung Galaxy S II i9100 (international). From a hardware perspective, it's a fantastic device. Definitely the best Android phone I've ever had (G1, HTC Aria, LG Optimus, Dell Venue, & Nexus S prior), but the software just isn't up to the polish that iOS has. I also think iOS has better push reliability which has become more important to me.

I did have an LG Quantum C900 very recently, which ran Windows Phone 7 Mango. I really, really liked everything about the OS aside from the lack of apps. Perhaps in 2012 Microsoft will gain momentum with the help of Nokia, but for now I'm deciding between the iPhone 4S or sticking with the Galaxy S II and checking out Ice Cream Sandwich.

Either way, AT&T is getting dumped.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

Top
#347795 - 05/10/2011 17:39 Re: iPhone 4S [Re: robricc]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
I've been using a locked iPhone3 with a Pay As You Go SIM for the past few months, voice calls only, 3G is turned off on the phone. AT&T hasn't said boo about it yet. I'd like to pick up a second smart phone for my wife - but doubt I'll get as good a deal, this one cost me $100.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >