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#350872 - 15/03/2012 21:45 Hell hath frozen over!
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA


It's an old model that was given to me, so I didn't plunk down any cash for it, but I look forward to playing around.

(I wasn't planning it, but hopefully it bugs a few people that there's a Zune in this photo)
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Matt

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#350873 - 15/03/2012 22:46 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
g_attrill
old hand

Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
I had a MBP for a while and they run Windows 7 really well laugh (I found a couple in a skip, they had been dropped and suffered head crashes, but with new drives they ran fine)

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#350875 - 15/03/2012 23:12 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: g_attrill]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
If you wanted to bug people you would have took the picture with windows running on it :-)
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Matt

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#350877 - 15/03/2012 23:40 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: msaeger]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Looking at the machine and wallpaper, it appears to be running OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, while 10.7 Lion is the current release. Head to the Apple menu and choose About this Mac, and see if it has a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo processor. If it's a Core Duo, 10.6 is the end of the road. If it says Core 2, it can go to 10.7.

If you do go that route (which is the only way to see the initial iCloud desktop integration), I'd recommend maxing out the RAM in that machine first, which is 4GB I believe. RAM and the hard drive is accessible when you remove the battery, help for that is here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1651

And as far as the Zune HD, not going to knock it. Especially when it's fully supported on your Mac there, by following this link into the App Store.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/windows-phone-7-connector/id415571499?mt=12

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#350881 - 16/03/2012 01:12 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: g_attrill
I had a MBP for a while and they run Windows 7 really well laugh (I found a couple in a skip, they had been dropped and suffered head crashes, but with new drives they ran fine)

Originally Posted By: msaeger
If you wanted to bug people you would have took the picture with windows running on it :-)

I do plan on dual booting. This might become my new on-the-job computer to replace my MSI Wind. The only problem is the MacBook weighs a ton in comparison, and I use the netbook a lot to run around troubleshooting networks.

Originally Posted By: drakino
Looking at the machine and wallpaper, it appears to be running OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, while 10.7 Lion is the current release. Head to the Apple menu and choose About this Mac, and see if it has a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo processor. If it's a Core Duo, 10.6 is the end of the road. If it says Core 2, it can go to 10.7.

Actually, it's running Leopard: 10.5.8. But the good news is that it's a Core 2 Duo, so I can still go to Lion. I don't have interest in using iCloud, but I would like to keep up to date and get the latest OS version. Still, even though it's cheap, it's not a priority.

Quote:
If you do go that route (which is the only way to see the initial iCloud desktop integration), I'd recommend maxing out the RAM in that machine first, which is 4GB I believe. RAM and the hard drive is accessible when you remove the battery, help for that is here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1651

Thanks, I'll definitely want to max out the RAM. Where's the best place to get reasonably priced RAM?

Quote:
And as far as the Zune HD, not going to knock it. Especially when it's fully supported on your Mac there, by following this link into the App Store.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/windows-phone-7-connector/id415571499?mt=12

Cool. Actually, I really was just doing that to get people's goat. I actually ended my Zune subscription this very month and have switched to Rdio. It sucks, because the Rdio software is pretty bad (with a redesign on the way), and the Zune HD is actually a fabulous music player. I still prefer its interface to any music playback software I've ever used. But I just wasn't using it anymore.


Anyway, Tom, I hope you don't mind but I'm going to have some initial questions about using this thing. Just to ease people's minds: there's a ton to like about the Mac OS. There are some little niggles that I'm going to have, either as a result of what I'm used to or things I honestly see is stuff I don't like, but I look forward to playing around in a new sandbox.
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Matt

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#350882 - 16/03/2012 01:38 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
You can pick up VMWare Fusion 4 right now in a MacUpdate bundle with a bunch of other apps for $50 - might be a good alternative to dual booting. I find it a lot more convenient to access Windows in a VM.

I just switched over to Lion as my primary boot OS tonight. I installed it onto a brand new Intel series 520 SSD (240GB) which I also just picked up tonight. Last month one of the last pieces of software I'd been waiting on for an update was finally released, so seeing as I'm supposed to help someone else transition to iCloud, I thought I'd get on it myself.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350884 - 16/03/2012 02:33 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Ahh, 10.5 and 10.6 wallpapers were so close, the brightness of the picture made it hard to tell wink

10.5 is basically end of life now. It's not going to see any more patches. Apple tends to support their current OS and the last one only. Moving to at least 10.6 would be a good plan, if not 10.7.

RAM, wherever you normally go for laptop RAM is fine. There is absolutely nothing special about the memory in any Mac, but lots of places like to sell "Mac" memory with a markup. (Well, the one exception is some of the earlier Mac Pros that required specific heatsinks.)

Oh, and regarding dual booting. BootCamp works well, and VMWare Fusion can boot the windows drive into a VM. You end up with the best of both worlds that way, native rebooting if you have to, and the ability to run both side by side, without 2 separate Windows installs. For me, BootCamp is for gaming, though that MacBook probably won't do so well in that regard.


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#350885 - 16/03/2012 03:39 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I think I'll be installing 10.8 in a VM sometime next week. Have you done this yet Tom? I'll probably use Parallels since I just picked up a copy of that earlier this month (another bundle deal). At the same time I'll likely try my Fusion 3 WinXP VM in Parallels too.

Any opinions on putting the VM files on SSD?
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350890 - 16/03/2012 09:59 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Oh, and regarding dual booting. BootCamp works well, and VMWare Fusion can boot the windows drive into a VM.

Ah, that was going to be my next question. I thought I'd heard you could boot cleanly into the OS but also run the same install within OSX. That's what I was looking for. Thanks.

I'll let you guys know if I have anymore questions. Thanks!

BTW, I'm probably going to buy this later today. Look right?


Edited by Dignan (16/03/2012 10:04)
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Matt

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#350894 - 16/03/2012 11:12 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I'm probably going to buy this later today. Look right?

Whic revision MacBook is it? Hold down the option key while clicking the Apple menu, and System Information should be the first option. (IF not, About this Mac has the button there). On the first Hardware tab, it will have a Model Identifier entry, something like Macbook3,1.

2GB total ram is going to be a little slow if you do upgrade to 10.7, or want a VM open. While Apple's page may only list 2GB max for your model, any of the Core 2 Duos should actually have a higher max, but some were strange in that the max was 3GB. I forgot about this earlier, but Apple only reported memory configurations they shipped on that page, compared to the true chipset maximum.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/index-macbook.html is a better guide to look at for max ram. If it came with 10.5 (instead of 10.4 on the restore discs), odds are it can go to 4GB or 6GB total.

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#350896 - 16/03/2012 11:13 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
crucial.com has a memory selector that will point you in the right direction.

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#350910 - 16/03/2012 16:11 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: Phoenix42
crucial.com has a memory selector that will point you in the right direction.

That's where I went and it informed me of the type I would need. What I didn't know was how many slots there were and the max amount supported per slot.

Tom, it's showing Macbook2,1

I definitely don't want just 2GB. I just wasn't sure it it had 2 slots or 4 (though most laptops seem to only have 2).
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Matt

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#350914 - 16/03/2012 17:22 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
On the left side of the screen it should detail not just the memory type, but the number of slots and the max memory config.
Eg:
Originally Posted By: Crucial
Memory:
DDR2 PC2-5300
Memory Type: DDR2 PC2-5300, DDR2 (non-ECC)
Maximum Memory: 4GB
Slots: 2
Each memory slot can hold DDR2 PC2-5300 with a maximum of 2GB per slot.


Some of the Dell Precision laptops, and presumable similar systems from other makers, have four memory slots, but they are very much the exception, so I doubt the MacBook has more than two. In any case, nice score!

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#350915 - 16/03/2012 18:12 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Yeah, I know I can get all that info from Crucial, and I use that often, but I prefer to try to get it directly from the computer in question. And if there's something unusual about this model as Tom implied, I want to make certain.
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Matt

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#350918 - 16/03/2012 20:13 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Tom, it's showing Macbook2,1

Okay, then go for a 4GB kit of 2 matched 2GB DIMMS. The laptop is only going to work with 3GB of it, but the matched set is likely easier then trying to buy a 1GB and 2GB stick, and reducing the performance a little bit.

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#350930 - 17/03/2012 02:04 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Tom, it's showing Macbook2,1

Okay, then go for a 4GB kit of 2 matched 2GB DIMMS. The laptop is only going to work with 3GB of it, but the matched set is likely easier then trying to buy a 1GB and 2GB stick, and reducing the performance a little bit.

So you don't think that 2GB is the maximum? I was under the impression I couldn't go for any more than that, according to both Crucial's site and the System Information screen...
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Matt

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#350931 - 17/03/2012 02:59 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Nope, 2GB is not the actual maximum. 2GB was the max Apple ever officially sold and supported if you bought RAM through them. But the chipset, and OS will work just fine if you put 2x2 into there. It's not going to use the full 4GB, but it will go up to 3GB. I've had hands on experience with this, as someone in my family has this exact model.

This site also confirms it, along with the explanation why only 3GB will be usable. It's our old friend, the 32 bit memory limit cropping up in the chipset, and needing the 3-4GB window for addressing space.

http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=MacBook2,1 (Pick one of them then look at the memory section)

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#350937 - 17/03/2012 11:28 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Apple's site has the spec as well. 3GB. I just happened to have looked up the RAM specs for an iMac of the time and it has the same limitations. I also recall the hoopla at the time, not only from Mac users, about systems topping out at 3GB instead of 4.

Matt, don't forget to check out that bundle I mentioned at MacUpdate. Still over a week left on it and you'll get a bunch of software, including VMWare for $50.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350939 - 17/03/2012 11:33 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Time to stray the topic a bit... Tom, how's your Google-fu as it related to looking up obscure AppleScript info?

I'm finding that a number of mail scripts I've been using forever no longer work in Lion because a certain mail AppleScript property pops an error - even though according to its dictionary it's still supposed to be valid.

This script is supposed to set the selected emails to REPLIED TO. I have another one which sets UN-REPLIED and it fails the same way. Give it a shot on your system and at least I'll be able to tell if it's some problem specific to my setup.

Code:
tell application "Mail"
	set theSelection to the selection
	repeat with i from 1 to the number of items in theSelection
		
		set the was replied to of (item i of the theSelection) to true
		
	end repeat
	
end tell


The "was replied to" generates the error - it comes back saying it can't set it to true in this case, or false in the opposite script.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350942 - 17/03/2012 11:57 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Nope, 2GB is not the actual maximum. 2GB was the max Apple ever officially sold and supported if you bought RAM through them. But the chipset, and OS will work just fine if you put 2x2 into there. It's not going to use the full 4GB, but it will go up to 3GB. I've had hands on experience with this, as someone in my family has this exact model.

Then why the false reporting in the actual OS?

Quote:
This site also confirms it, along with the explanation why only 3GB will be usable. It's our old friend, the 32 bit memory limit cropping up in the chipset, and needing the 3-4GB window for addressing space.

Well I'm at least used to that, though I'm more used to it being something like ~3.7GB available. Why the difference?
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Matt

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#350943 - 17/03/2012 12:07 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
First question, and the most important in order for me to get started using this thing:

Is there an easy way to remap the editing keyboard shortcuts so that they make sense to a Windows user? Please, I don't want this to get into a religious war. It just not something that I think I'll be able to get used to, or even want to get used to. I simply do not like how OSX handles copy/paste and stuff like that. I much prefer how everything pretty much revolves around the Ctrl key in Windows.
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Matt

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#350944 - 17/03/2012 12:18 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
You can remap all the modifiers in the Keyboard preference pane inside System Preferences.

I'd suggest however trying to get used to using the command key at its current location. You'll find it's more convenient after a while.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350949 - 17/03/2012 13:41 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Ok, I need more help. Address Book (in Lion with iCloud) is driving me UP THE WALL.

In its preferences I can clearly see that I have both iCloud and "On My Mac" local accounts. However, if I try adding a group, it ALWAYS goes into iCloud. I'd like to set up an address group that's local only so that it will not be synced to other devices and I simply can't figure out how to do it.

The other PITA is that let's say I want to get rid of a group and all its associated addresses... There's no way to do this. If you delete the group it doesn't actually delete any contacts. So now you'll be left with potential duplicates or at the very least extra contacts that you may not want. All listed in the "All Contacts" view. Good luck trying to figure out which ones were the ones belonging to that group.

The workaround I found was to export every group you want to keep to a vcard, then delete ALL addresses and all groups, re-create the groups you want and then import the vcards you previously exported.

An unrelated issue I'm having is when bringing up search results in Google from the Apple discussions forum (some links only), clicking through won't let me see the discussions. I'm prompted to re-verify my AppleID password and then it always fails due to an "unknown error" - arrgh! Already tried deleting cookies. And the login works fine for the developer pages and iTunes.


Edited by hybrid8 (17/03/2012 13:51)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350950 - 17/03/2012 13:54 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Found a work-around for the Address Book "On My Mac" issue - a thread about the OPPOSITE problem led me to it.

In preferences if you select "On My Mac" to be the default account, then you will see the entry in the Address Book for "On My Mac"suddenly appear if it was previously missing - then you can create local groups. After that you can put the default back to iCloud and the local "On My Mac" category remains. IMO, this is a bug - since it was listed as an account in prefs, it should have always appeared in the list in Address Book's UI.



Edited by hybrid8 (17/03/2012 13:54)
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350954 - 17/03/2012 16:51 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
You can remap all the modifiers in the Keyboard preference pane inside System Preferences.

I'd suggest however trying to get used to using the command key at its current location. You'll find it's more convenient after a while.

I disagree, but a debate would be pointless.
_________________________
Matt

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#350956 - 17/03/2012 17:55 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
You haven't been at it for a while, so disagreeing right now is pointless. wink I didn't say it would be more convenient now. It won't. But I've been using Mac OS for over 15 years, all the while also using Windows. And I was primarily a Windows user until switching my own personal machine to a Mac in 2004. I didn't form the opinion lightly. I know from convenience.

Anyway, you can make the changes you want in the place I mentioned. Then the more you use the machine with the keyboard, you'll soon start to see what I mean.

On a side note, I just turned off Lion's default "natural" scroll direction. I tried it for a few days and thought Id keep trying it until I got used to it. It was become more automatic, but it's anything but natural. I'm not going to train myself to deal with something I don't agree with. It was a stupid decision, a senseless paradigm and the people at Apple who thought about putting it into the OS, let alone making it the default, have their heads up their asses. There is no argument to be made advocating this. It's just wrong. The track pad controls the mouse cursor and all movement is relative to that premise. Therefore the traditional scroll movements are the natural ones. The input is not being done to the physical page or objects that are moving, and this behavior falls apart all over the place.



Edited by hybrid8 (17/03/2012 18:01)
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350966 - 18/03/2012 16:01 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
pedrohoon
enthusiast

Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
Nice score Matt, I have the same model in white. Still goes well although battery life is pretty poor now.

I got mine to replace a Windows desktop that was shitting me to tears, and I haven't looked back (although I do have Parallels wink ).
_________________________
Peter.

"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best

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#350969 - 18/03/2012 17:39 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
You can remap all the modifiers in the Keyboard preference pane inside System Preferences.

I was very pleased to hear about that, but it turns out it doesn't do anything useful. It can swap over the Control and Command keys completely, but it can't make it so that the same modifier key is used for C and V in text editors, and for ^C and ^D in terminals (and XEmacs).

Though unlike you and perhaps Dignan, I'm not at all interested in the most effective way to be a long-term MacOS user. I'm temporarily lumbered with the blasted thing because of the (arbitrary?) difficulty of cross-compiling for Iphone from anything else, and I want to be through the experience and out the other side as rapidly and frictionlessly as possible, while doing the minimum possible damage to my muscle memory of how to operate ever other desktop in the world.

Peter

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#350975 - 19/03/2012 11:51 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: peter]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
KeyRemap4MacBook should be able to do what you want.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#350976 - 19/03/2012 11:58 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: peter]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: peter
but it can't make it so that the same modifier key is used for C and V in text editors, and for ^C and ^D in terminals (and XEmacs).


Sure it can. You can re-assign keystrokes for any application using Keyboard Preferences, including the creation of keystrokes for menu items that didn't previously have any.

The caveat is that there has to be a menu item for what you're assigning a keystroke to. Otherwise you'll have to use third-party software to make a macro or rebind.

Though I don't know why you'd want to do something so ridiculous, even if you don't plan to continue using the Mac. I don't have any issues moving between Windows systems and Mac OS, and I certainly wouldn't want to merge the keys used for copy/paste with those used for a break signal in a terminal. Both functions are useful.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350977 - 19/03/2012 12:01 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I love mystery software without a product page or any indication of what it does. wink
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350978 - 19/03/2012 12:13 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#350979 - 19/03/2012 12:53 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: andy]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
You don't know how many links I clicked on with the original landing page to try and find a page like this. "DOCUMENTS" - go figure. wink

This is exactly the type of third-party app I was talking about previously, allowing you to bind an arbitrary keystroke to a different keystroke.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350980 - 19/03/2012 13:17 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
KeyRemap4MacBook should be able to do what you want.

Thanks, Bitt.

Here's my issue: while I can already see things in OSX that I like, including a couple I like more than Windows, these keyboard shortcuts really don't make sense to me. I don't like having to transition from one key to another when I only need one in Windows, and holding down the command key for these actions does not seem ergonomic, seeing as it's right next to the space bar.

Anyway, I'll see about using that program to remap things. Thanks, Bitt. Keyboard shortcuts are a big deal for me.
_________________________
Matt

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#350981 - 19/03/2012 13:22 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Oooo. Now that is what I want. Thanks all!

Peter

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#350982 - 19/03/2012 13:36 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: peter]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Matt, there should be a command key on both sides of the keyboard for helping to reduce any muscle strain. For the command key on the left, I always use my left thumb.

Windows shortcut keys are quite barbaric and nonexistent when compared to what you have available in Mac OS X. In the OS, shortcuts should generally always be command-key based unless they are extended shortcuts which would then employ an additional modifier. So unless you're switching to a different OS (VM, etc.) you'll be pretty much using only the single modifier. CTRL is rarely used as a shortcut modifier, and then typically in combination with command. CTRL on the Mac is used for its original purpose, for sending control sequences to terminal sessions.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350983 - 19/03/2012 14:29 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: Dignan
holding down the command key for these actions does not seem ergonomic, seeing as it's right next to the space bar.

While I'm not going to get into a religious discussion about the merits of various modifier keys, I am going to hold your feet over the fire on calling the location of the MacOS Command key less ergonomically preferable than the location of the Windows Control key. Unless you have some sort of stubby pseudo-vestigial additional finger sticking out of the side of your hand, there is no way that that Control key can in any way be considered ergonomic.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#350984 - 19/03/2012 14:29 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Here's my issue: while I can already see things in OSX that I like, including a couple I like more than Windows, these keyboard shortcuts really don't make sense to me.

You are going to hit more of this as you explore deeper. There are reasons for why it's different. And yes, sometimes it's frustrating and weird at times. But it doesn't always mean there is a flaw in the Windows or the Mac way, it's just different. Similar to how one can know how to drive a manual transmission, and still feel weird when shifting with the left hand instead of the right. (Or the other way around for those who grew up shifting with the left)

Apple had the advantage of controlling the hardware and software from day one. When they felt there was a need for a modifier key that was different then the one already in use for terminal based apps, they had the ability to make that separation (Control vs Command). Microsoft didn't have this ability, so they ended up mapping a lot of GUI commands to Control when DOS, and the Unixes of the era already had many established control functions. It wasn't until Windows 95 that Microsoft influenced PC makers to add a dedicated Windows key. It also wan't mandatory, so it's been heavily underutilized compared to the command key.

Originally Posted By: Dignan
holding down the command key for these actions does not seem ergonomic

Ergonomics wise, the default home row hand position would have both thumbs on the spacebar. By placing command right next to it, there is less thumb movement compared to reaching for control. Or less finger movement overall compared to moving the pinky off A down to control. Back when control was where the caps lock key is, you could have equally minimal movement to access either control or command.

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#350986 - 19/03/2012 16:06 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Unless you have some sort of stubby pseudo-vestigial additional finger sticking out of the side of your hand, there is no way that that Control key can in any way be considered ergonomic.


It's not an extra finger, but I did spend 3 years using Emacs at University. You soon build up strength and flexibility in your little finger when you're pressing ^X combos all the time.

Of course, I use vim now.
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-- roger

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#350988 - 19/03/2012 16:51 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Originally Posted By: Dignan
holding down the command key for these actions does not seem ergonomic, seeing as it's right next to the space bar.

While I'm not going to get into a religious discussion about the merits of various modifier keys, I am going to hold your feet over the fire on calling the location of the MacOS Command key less ergonomically preferable than the location of the Windows Control key. Unless you have some sort of stubby pseudo-vestigial additional finger sticking out of the side of your hand, there is no way that that Control key can in any way be considered ergonomic.

Well, technically I never said it WAS ergonomic, just that the option key wasn't wink

Paying attention to how I hit it, when I'm speeding along with my fingers on the home row, it looks like I tend to hit it by curling my pinky finger and hitting it with the top of my fingernail. That sounds a lot less ergonomic than it is, and feels just fine to me. It also lets me hit the shift key with the first knuckle on the same finger, which is nice because I can roll onto it when selecting whole words, which I do constantly.

Much of what's bugging me about this is just because things are different, and I admit that. But I do believe that I'm switching modifier keys far more often. For example, ctrl+tab is still used in OSX for browser tab switching because option+tab switches between open apps like alt+tab in Windows. I copy and paste text between tabs constantly, and it seems inconvenient to switch modifier keys every time. In Windows, when my left little finger isn't on the A key, it's hovering halfway over the ctrl and shift keys.

Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Matt, there should be a command key on both sides of the keyboard for helping to reduce any muscle strain. For the command key on the left, I always use my left thumb.

This is definitely a per-user thing, but the area between the spacebar and the left arrow key on my keyboard might as well not exist. I never use those keys. All of my keyboard shortcuts are done with a single hand, so that my right hand is free to use the arrow keys or the mouse.
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#350989 - 19/03/2012 17:47 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
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Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
A popular shortcut mod (if any can be considered "popular" ) is to re-assign the CAPS LOCK key as CTRL. Then it's quite easy to hit it with a pinky.

I don't use CTRL-Tab to switch between tabs, but I just might now. I've always used shift-command-] and [ to move right and left through tabs. But that takes two hands.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#350993 - 19/03/2012 19:47 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
A popular shortcut mod (if any can be considered "popular" ) is to re-assign the CAPS LOCK key as CTRL. Then it's quite easy to hit it with a pinky.

I can definitely see doing that. It'll definitely take retraining, though, and that's what I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

Quote:
I don't use CTRL-Tab to switch between tabs, but I just might now. I've always used shift-command-] and [ to move right and left through tabs. But that takes two hands.

It also takes three keys instead of two, but it does make it possible to go right to left instead of just left to right, however, I can still do that by using ctrl+pgup/down, which again uses the ctrl key as the major modifier.

Let me clean my argument up a little. Here's three activities:

-switch tabs
-skip from word to word
-copy and paste

I do these three things in equal amounts all day long. In OSX, I'm going to have to get used to using the ctrl, option, and command keys, respectively. In Windows, I just need ctrl.

That's the irritation I have. The rest of it is just getting used to something being done differently (I can get used to command+tab for app switching, for example).

I also want to reiterate that I like a lot of OSX. I don't want to put people here on the defensive, it's just unfortunate that it's easier for us as people to go online and complain or seek help than it is to praise. I'll try to make a special effort to note things I like about using this operating system while I'm going through this, so I can post about them and not anger the Apple faithful as much smile
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#350994 - 19/03/2012 19:48 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
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Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Oh, and I'm going to need to get a good KVM switch, because I can't stand typing on laptop keyboards of any kind (nothing to do with Apple). I'd also like to make use of my 30" monitor, that is if the Macbook will support it. Any ideas on that, and what kind of switch to get?
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#350995 - 19/03/2012 19:49 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
ctrl-shift-tab will go left in most properly-tabbed intefaces.

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#350997 - 19/03/2012 20:25 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I'd also like to make use of my 30" monitor, that is if the Macbook will support it.

That model is limited to 1920x1200, via a single link DVI connection. Only the MacBook Pro systems from that era had a full dual link DVI connector, prior to Apple switching over to displayport.

To get video out, you will need to track down an adaptor to go from the weird mini-dvi port to standard DVI or VGA.

No real suggestions on a KVM, but as long as it supports USB keyboard and mice, along with DVI for video, you should be good. Just keep in mind the dual link DVI requirement on your monitor (if using DVI) also applies to the KVM if you want to retain your 2560x1600 resolution from your main PC.

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#350998 - 19/03/2012 20:32 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Ah, thanks Tom. I do have the adapter already, I just wasn't sure what resolution was supported. Hopefully it won't look too bad.
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#350999 - 19/03/2012 21:08 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Oh, and I'm going to need to get a good KVM switch

Many of us might define "good" as "USB for KB/mouse and digital for video."
With that in mind, I bought a "good" KVM last fall for $100. It's a Belkin 4-port SOHO.

Works well enough, no complaints. Full cabling was included for USB, DVI and sound (Line-out + MIC) for all four ports. Nothing else with digital video switching was even within 2X the price at the time.

Cheers

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#351000 - 19/03/2012 21:21 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: mlord]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Originally Posted By: mlord
I bought a "good" KVM last fall for $100. It's a Belkin 4-port SOHO.

I've got one of those too, it works very well.
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Andy M

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#351001 - 19/03/2012 22:11 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: andym]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I'll tell you what KVM works very poorly on my 2009 Mac Mini. The IOGear GCS1104 has multiple issues. My mouse (Microsoft Wireless Mouse 5000) won't resume properly when switching to OS X. The mouse will only move horizontally. The audio switching also doesn't work on the Mac. The computer sees that something is plugged in, and shuts off its internal speaker, but no sound ever comes out.

I use the thing as a KV switcher only because of this. Avoid.

I recently upgraded this 2009 Mini (2.0GHz C2D) with Lion after stuffing it with 8GB of RAM. Unfortunately, the performance is far worse than the same machine with 4GB on Snow Leopard. The main issue is when trying to invoke the login screen. Mouse movement doesn't do it anymore, which is a bit annoying, but I can sometimes wait 60 seconds between wake, having the login box pop up, having the cursor visible in the password box, typing the password, then waiting for the typed information to be acknowledged. Then, for a minute or two after that, the machine is very sluggish and both cores of the CPU are spiked.

Is anyone else noticing this behavior? Keep in mind that the Mini doesn't ever actually sleep and the hard drive is also set to stay awake. Is there something I'm missing that causes this coma-like situation?

I have two other Mac Minis (current generation). One is the "server" with quad core i7 with 16GB of RAM and the other is a base model i5 with 8GB of RAM. Both those machines are virtualization platforms for Windows servers. The i7 has two instances of Win Server 2003 with 4GB allocated to each. The i5 runs a 2K3 machine with 1GB and a Win7 machine with 2GB. Both these Minis run Lion Server, but the i7 is always smoking-fast. The i5 can get bogged down at login just like my 2009 Mini sometimes, but generally regains its snappiness much quicker. So, does Lion need more than 2 cores or does it just crave tons of memory? Either way, the 2009 looks like its days are numbered.
_________________________
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80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#351004 - 20/03/2012 01:22 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
re-assign the CAPS LOCK key as CTRL

This is about the first thing I do with any computer I intend to use for any significant amount of time.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#351013 - 20/03/2012 13:00 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Does anyone else notice that trackpad pointer movement when running Lion will occasionally be slow or seem to get hung up when doing fine movements?

With 10.6 mouse movement on a unibody MBP was always fluid. Predictable acceleration and a very proportional feel.

Within an hour of using Lion I'm noticing that while sweeping movements seem the same or similar, often when making smaller movements the pointer will move far too slowly and that proportional feel is lost. This behavior seems random, like a hiccup of sorts, because just as quickly as it happened, it will disappear and thing will go back to "normal."
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351020 - 21/03/2012 00:12 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Bruno, I don't know if this is Lion, but when I was setting up my mother's Mac Mini, I was pretty irritated that when an application was loading, the cursor seemed to freeze when passing over its window. I think Tom has told me that this is an Apple thing, but I haven't seen it so far on my Macbook here...
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Matt

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#351026 - 21/03/2012 11:35 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: robricc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: robricc
Is anyone else noticing this behavior? Keep in mind that the Mini doesn't ever actually sleep and the hard drive is also set to stay awake. Is there something I'm missing that causes this coma-like situation?

Rob, you should check the Console app shortly after these coma like states to see if anything relevant is being displayed in there. My mini at home has had some sluggishness, but not like you describe. Typically for me, it's struggling with some Flash videos, which I have yet to diagnose too much. I need to just convert the Mini to be Flash free like my other machines.

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#351027 - 21/03/2012 11:36 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Does anyone else notice that trackpad pointer movement when running Lion will occasionally be slow or seem to get hung up when doing fine movements?

Unless my battery is dying in the trackpad and it cuts off, I haven't noticed anything too weird with trackpad cursor movement with Lion. I however didn't use the trackpad as heavily in Snow Leopard, so I may not be as sensitive to any changes.

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#351028 - 21/03/2012 11:36 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I was pretty irritated that when an application was loading, the cursor seemed to freeze when passing over its window. I think Tom has told me that this is an Apple thing

Not sure what you mean by a cursor freezing when being over a window being an "Apple thing". I haven't experienced that behavior either, but maybe it's a low resource issue going on. How much RAM does the Mini have? I have noticed Lion is more system resource hungry compared to older versions.

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#351029 - 21/03/2012 12:19 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I can't say I've ever experienced the cursor freezing over the window of an opening app. The mouse cursor is usually the most responsive UI thread, even as everything around it starts to hang. smile

With regards to the Trackpad, in response to Tom, I'm seeing the behavior on both the external Magic Trackpad and the one built into the MBP, so it's not battery related.

They changed a lot in Lion, despite the OS's outward and feature experience being on the (mostly) light side. The trackpad system was apparently completely overhauled as part of the introduction of the newer multi-touch gestures. Hopefully it's something at least a few other people inside Apple notice too and they catch the issue.

Apart from random issues waking from sleep or Safari taking down the desktop (mostly in Snow), one problem area since the beginning of time has always been disappearing network shares. When a network share goes down, some of the OS can take forever to realize it and will seem to just hang for ages, causing other software to go with it (like Path Finder).

Processes which I've noticed can really slow things down are mdworker and mds, which are part of the indexing system used in Spotlight - and of course Time Machine backups can put a drain on disk access every now and then.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351031 - 21/03/2012 13:31 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Ok, I've been able to reproduce one pointer slow-down 100% of the time.

If I'm typing in a text box in programs within my VMWare Windows XP and the mouse cursor blanks (because I'm typing), moving it again causes it to appear and move very slowly for the first bit.

I thought this might be the universal cause, but it doesn't seem to happen in this text field in Safari. I'll keep my eyes open for more specific cases.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351032 - 21/03/2012 13:32 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted By: drakino
Originally Posted By: robricc
Is anyone else noticing this behavior? Keep in mind that the Mini doesn't ever actually sleep and the hard drive is also set to stay awake. Is there something I'm missing that causes this coma-like situation?

Rob, you should check the Console app shortly after these coma like states to see if anything relevant is being displayed in there. My mini at home has had some sluggishness, but not like you describe. Typically for me, it's struggling with some Flash videos, which I have yet to diagnose too much. I need to just convert the Mini to be Flash free like my other machines.

Shortly after posting my problems, I ran through OnyX on the 2009 Mini. It's a utility that I pretty-much forgot about, but it seems to have done something. Perhaps using Migration Assistant to go from 10.6 to 10.7 messed up some permissions causing the machine to hang? Since the cleanup, the login box still comes up lethargically, but I can now get in within about 10 seconds of waking the display. It still feels too slow, but overall, I'm pleased with the results. 10.6 was definitely faster on this machine, however. I'm thinking one of the current-gen Minis with AMD graphics would be a reasonable upgrade. Especially if I can get it from the refurb store.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#351033 - 21/03/2012 14:31 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
If I'm typing in a text box in programs within my VMWare Windows XP and the mouse cursor blanks (because I'm typing), moving it again causes it to appear and move very slowly for the first bit.

I'm unable to replicate this with VMWare Fusion 4.1.1 and a Windows 7 VM running in unity mode. I do see it if set the VM to single window mode. If I turn off "Enhance pointer position" in the Windows 7 Mouse control panel, it seems to change the behavior a bit.

Oh, random other tidbits about my VMWare setup, in Preferences (for all of VMWare) under Keyboard & Mouse, I have Secondary button turned off. (This is where VMWare will send a context click if I'm holding control and click. I can already do this without control, so it just tended to cause issues). I also changed the setting on the VM under USB & Bluetooth to not share Bluetooth devices. When Windows booted, it enjoyed disconnecting my Bluetooth keyboard and mouse for a bit before reconnecting.

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#351035 - 21/03/2012 14:38 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I've been using VMWare 3.x, but I've been seeing the issue all over the place.

I was having a USB problem in VMWare with my URC remote today, so I'm currently updating the VM to Parallels 7. We'll see how that goes.


Edited by hybrid8 (21/03/2012 15:19)
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351057 - 22/03/2012 19:37 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Keyboard shortcuts are a big deal for me.

I forgot Apple has a handy list of shortcuts in a central article:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343

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#351078 - 23/03/2012 13:37 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: drakino]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Speaking of keyboard shortcuts, has anyone come up with a way to duplicate the shift+del behavior of Windows on a Mac? (bypass the recycle bin and completely delete the file). Sometimes I want to delete large HD video files and such and don't want them taking up several gigs of space in my trash can.
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~ John

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#351093 - 23/03/2012 21:02 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: JBjorgen]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
Speaking of keyboard shortcuts, has anyone come up with a way to duplicate the shift+del behavior of Windows on a Mac? (bypass the recycle bin and completely delete the file). Sometimes I want to delete large HD video files and such and don't want them taking up several gigs of space in my trash can.

I was going to ask this as well. It also surprised me that simply hitting the delete key does not delete a highlighted file.
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Matt

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#351099 - 23/03/2012 22:22 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
That's because the Mac's "Delete" key is really backspace. smile

If you keep your files on a network share, you'll have them deleted immediately, even if you'd prefer a recycle bin.

I don't believe there's such a shortcut when using the Finder and I can't remember if there's one if using the Finder replacement (which I much prefer), Path Finder.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351100 - 23/03/2012 22:24 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: JBjorgen]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Delete Immediately. (You can assign a keyboard shortcut to it from System Preferences / Keyboard / Keyboard Shortcuts.

Alternately, use the Delete key, then Cmd-Shift-Option-Delete to empty the trash.

Me, I just use "rm" in the terminal.
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- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#351130 - 26/03/2012 01:38 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Command-Delete deletes a file (to the Trash Can).

I was going to say that if your concern was that you didn't want that file taking up space, but didn't want to empty your entire Trash Can, you could just go and Command-Delete the file inside the Trash Can, but, as it turns out, that undeletes the file, which is just wackiness.
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Bitt Faulk

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#351179 - 28/03/2012 15:51 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Oh, as a side-note, in case anyone will be in the market for a new Mac any time soon... The entire product line is scheduled to go NVIDIA graphics over the next few months. Though rumor has it that NVIDIA has not been able to meet demand for some parts, potentially causing Apple to use Intel integrated (as feared in Ivy Bridge) as the sole graphics processor on some lower-end models.

This will apply to all models for at least the rest of 2012.

It's kind of sad, because NVIDIA has always had the shittiest Mac drivers and graphics implementations.


Edited by hybrid8 (28/03/2012 15:52)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351193 - 29/03/2012 12:32 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Argh, Mac OS Lion...

Try naming a file (from a file save dialog) with the characters "TM" in the filename and you'll see that Lion autocorrects this to a trademark for you. Annoying since even if you backspace and change it again, it will STILL autocorrect.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351194 - 29/03/2012 13:03 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Netmail them a bitmap of your leitmotif; see if they make a commitment to an appointment by Christmas. Their craftmanship department must use postmodern hotmelt voltmeters to make an adjustment. Don't let their profitmongering outmanoeuvre you: demand utmost ointment for your nightmarish treatment.

Peter™

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#351197 - 29/03/2012 14:24 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: peter]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
System Preferences, Language & Text, uncheck "Use symbol and text substitution."
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- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#351198 - 29/03/2012 14:38 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: tonyc]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
It's not so much an issue that the feature is there, but that it can't be overridden by backspace+retype like when autocorrect is used in a text field.

Interestingly, substitutions don't work in the text fields in Safari. At least not the ones on this forum.



Edited by hybrid8 (29/03/2012 15:51)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351204 - 30/03/2012 01:20 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Okay, this time I have an extremely basic "they do it differently so I'm not used to it" question, and it once again has to do with keyboard shortcuts (like I said, they're important to me).

Question: how do I switch between two Chrome windows?

Ctrl+Tab, fortunately, still switches between tabs, but Command+Tab seems to switch between entire applications. While that makes some sense, I can't tell how to switch between different windows of the same application.

Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Command-Delete deletes a file (to the Trash Can).

Yeah, and I understand why they do it that way. I guess it's their way of protecting from accidental deletions, but IMO that's what the trash can is for in the first place. Or the OS gives a prompt. I prefer to keep the number of keys to a minimum...
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Matt

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#351205 - 30/03/2012 01:25 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Command-~ (tilde) switches between windows in apps.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#351206 - 30/03/2012 10:30 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Not a fan of that, but okay.
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Matt

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#351207 - 30/03/2012 10:43 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
You can also try Witch to modify how Cmd-Tab works. It's nagware (and, IMO, too expensive) but the nag isn't invasive.
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Bitt Faulk

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#351208 - 30/03/2012 11:17 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I guess it's their way of protecting from accidental deletions, but IMO that's what the trash can is for in the first place. Or the OS gives a prompt. I prefer to keep the number of keys to a minimum...

I like the need for two keys to be used (in one action) to delete a file, vs an accidental delete (or a second dialog extending the overall action to confirm after each one). Sure, it's still only in the trash can at that point, but if I bumped the key and didn't notice, then later empty the trash, it's still bad.

My opinion is probably a bit different here, due to already having experienced major data loss due to a single key located on the edge of a keyboard being bumped. Delete happens to be on the edge of the laptop and desktop wireless keyboards, so it makes me nervous smile

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#351209 - 30/03/2012 12:14 Re: Hell hath frozen over! [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
It's nagware (and, IMO, too expensive) but the nag isn't invasive.


And paying should make any nags go away. $14 is pretty much at the bottom end of commercial software, IMO. It's the price of three fancy coffees or two pints of beer. It's not really worth developing and selling something at a lower price if you're a small ISV. And Witch looks like it has quite a bit of bones to it.

_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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