Sorry for the OT, but I got my first speeding ticket in 6 years yesterday, and it's time to get a radar detector (cause i don't plan on going 55 to work through some of the most fun curves in Marin County!!)

I know i've seen people on this board mention the Valentine One as being the be all end all, but i wanted a few more opinions. Is it unrealistic to hope to get a good one for under $200US?? So what are your experiences with detectors.... shoot!


|| loren.cox ||

I don't have a specific detector to recommend besides the Valentine One, but I will mention the following:

A radar detector is only a tool.

If you want to drive fast and still avoid speeding tickets, there are a whole lot of other things you need to do and learn. The radar detector can handle one small aspect of the ticket avoidance puzzle, but it's not the whole picture.

I'm not going to post my exact driving habits on a public forum, but let's just say that my travel times between points A and B are significantly lower than most folks would consider reasonable. And in my entire life, I have only been written up for one speeding ticket: going 65 in a 55 zone. And that one only happened because I wasn't in "ticket avoidance" mode and wasn't paying attention to what I was doing.

Oh, and by the way, I do not own a radar detector. It is possible to avoid tickets without one. In fact, in the one situation where I was actually ticketed, the detector wouldn't have helped anyway because the cop wasn't using radar. There are techniques you can use, things you can do, and stuff you can learn about the way Highway Patrol does its job. It's not too difficult, but it all comes down to being careful and attentive whenever you're exceeding the speed limit.

Loren, if you ever want me to "talk your ear off" on the subject, we can get together the next time I'm in the Bay area (or the next time you come up to Tahoe).

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Tony Fabris

Okay let me take this opportunity to get a little carried away...

I often toy around with having a radar detector installed into my car in such away that it's not a seperate device to get in my way. Is there anything on the market that is installed, maybe in the front of the car or something like that?

Ideally, this would be out of site, out of mind kind of a thing until I need it, and then it when it detects something it would "dim" the volume on the empeg (does this for car phones now, no?) to alert me.

I have a Belkin radar detector now...cordless, so I don't have a wire hanging down in my way. I do have to feed it batteries though. Most of the time..I don't even hear it because I like to listen to my music LOUD!

Anybody know anything about this stuff?

--Chris Willenbrock
MK2 | 12GB | Queue Registration # 2 (really!)

There are plenty of radar detectors with remote-mounting kits. Usually these are an extra-cost add-on. These put an unobtrusive little display on your dash panel, with the actual detector mounted out of sight. I'd always figured it would be best to open the instrument cluster and actually integrate the LEDs with the dash lights, dunno if that's do-able.

I think it would be cool if a radar detector could be wired to the Empeg's cell-phone-mute line. I don't know if that's an option on any detectors, though.

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Tony Fabris

You know Tony, that's EXACTLY what happened. I am ALWAYS in ticket avoidence mode driving to work, i know where the HWP hide and where to look out, and i'm always scanning ahead, but i just wasn't paying attention for that 30 seconds when i should have yesterday, i was off in lala land for some reason, i think i was looking at a Porsche next to me when i should have seen the cop in plain view. It would be nice to have a detector just to know if they are there or not, it would make driving to work that little bit more relaxing if i didn't have to be so "awake" to speed traps all the time, so i figured i'd check out people's experiences with 'em. But, i hear ya, you are definitely right on that topic, which is why i've only gotten one ticket in my 8 years of driving.


|| loren.cox ||

If you were on the freeway, the radar detector wouldn't have helped you. HP doesn't use radar on the freeway. No point, with so many cars.

They usually just pace you. A good pacing is the most ironclad kind of ticket when challenged in court. And since there are so many drivers out there who don't pay attention, the HP doesn't usually have a problem dropping in behind them and pacing them.

The most dangerous one is when you unwittingly approach an HP from behind (say, at night, or if it's an unmarked car)...

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Tony Fabris

I think it would be cool if a radar detector could be wired to the Empeg's cell-phone-mute line. I don't know if that's an option on any detectors, though.



Valentine 1.

Anything else is a toy, and WILL cost you more over the long run.

Obviously it's a biased opinion, but it's alot like the Empeg... once you have it, you aren't going back.

I've got mine setup remote. The detector itself is mounted directly under the passenger visor, with the power and information cable (it's a phone cord, mega nice) running inside the support down to the console.

At that point I have a split. Power comes in here, switched from the key. One phone cord goes to the dash area, where I have a remote display mounted. It is doable to integrate with the dashboard, but since my car only recently pasted it's warranty, I didn't want to screw with the dash THAT much. It is placed directly between the Tach and Speedo, works pretty nice. I suppose I'll have to pull the Digital camera out and start taking pictures of my install(s). The second out is for audio, which I've rigged with a little homemade electronics work to trigger the mute on the empeg whenever the audio threshold is met. I've got additional speakers triggering out of this module as well.

The Detector itself IS visible from outside the car in daylight, but you have to look for it, as it's mounted VERY high, and is recessed a bit. There also isn't a visible wire, so I don't get any second glances. At night, it's invisible, with the display indicators visible only to me.

The Valentine 1 is simply the best radar/laser (bastards just got a few of those guns around here) detector out there. Anything of lesser quality will only result in you paying more... to the insurance.

Obviously, it also does not replace a human with a brain paying attention to what he/she is doing... If you are at high speed rates, you should be paying enough attention to the road to spot the cop before you are in range anyways... The Valentine just helps you out.

If you are at high speed rates, you should be paying enough attention to the road to spot the cop before you are in range anyways

My philosophy exactly. If you're going to speed, you need to be in a heightened state of situational awareness in order to be a safe driver. If you can't maintain this state of awareness, you should slow down.

My 65-in-a-55 ticket is an example of a time when I shouldn't have been speeding. I was having a conversation with my wife and wasn't checking onramps in my side mirror. He dropped onto the freeway exactly in my right rear blind spot (this guy was good).

I probably would have gotten off with a warning if I hadn't made one critical mistake: Instead of slowing to 55, I thought that slamming on the brakes would have been too guilty-looking. Truth is, if I'd slammed on the brakes when I first saw him behind me, he wouldn't have been able to pace me in time and wouldn't have had a good clocking. Depending on the cop, they usually won't write you up unless they're sure the clocking is ironclad.

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Tony Fabris

If you're going to speed, you need to be in a heightened state of situational awareness in order to be a safe driver.


Yup yup yup.

Best I remember, California was certainly different in style from the South, but paying attention will save you more times than a detector (of ANY quality) will... That said... The Valentine has STILL saved my ass many more times than I can count. And unlike just about any other detector, when it goes off:
A: I hear it.... it's speaker is LOUD.
B: I pay attention to it. Falses in Advanced Logic mode simply DO NOT happen. If you get a beep from it, There is a radar source there. If you drive in the same area, you learn to ignore the same ones. With the Valentine, you can tell how MANY sources are there... It works GREAT.

A favorite trick here is for the cops to run radar in the same areas that they know are radar falses (door openers, security systems, etc.. ). With the Valentine, you simply notice there are more radar sets than there used to be, and know there is a cop there. With other detectors, you don't. I've seen SOOO many people get pulled by this trick. It works Very well, and is easy for the cops to do, so they use it alot here. They tend to be lazy, and leave the gun on, so with the V1, I know they are there a mile or two before I ever enter their range.

Unfortunately, It appears that I'm going to be in California in a week or two on business (L.A.), so it looks like I get to refresh my memory of Chips.. :)

It appears that I'm going to be in California in a week or two on business (L.A.), so it looks like I get to refresh my memory of Chips

If you haven't driven in California for a while, then there's something you should know: CHP is adding more unmarked cars to its lineup lately.

I have seen some pretty stealthy ones recently. The most frightening one was when I saw a late-model gray Dodge Intrepid blow by me in the left lane and nail someone right in front of me. I thought it was just another passenger car. I'd never seen Intrepids as unmarked cars before, and this one didn't have any external indications that it was a CHP. For instance, instead of an array of lights on the parcel shelf, it simply had its tail light, turn signals, and marker lights blinking in an alternating pattern. The "pull over" light was mounted on the back side of the rearview mirror. It wasn't bristling with the obvious collection of radio antennas.

Once upon a time, you could spot the unmarked units by seeing the circled "E" (for Exempt) on the license plate. Now they don't even do that. The only way to tell if it's a government car is to see if the plate has its year and month tags on it (exempt cars don't have tags). I check for this constantly now whenever I approach a suspicious vehicle from behind.

I long for the old days when you could spot a CHP from two miles away...

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Tony Fabris

Fabris: "A good pacing is the most ironclad kind of ticket when challenged in court."

Tony,

You've obviously never been nailed by an airplane!

(I went back to Yakima and did get my fine reduced, but it was almost amusing to watch a long parade of "I didn't do it! I swear!" airplane -- and pacing -- victims get their heads stepped on by a very bored judge. Thankfully, the trap marks were at the point that I had slowed down to 79!)

There's 1 V1 on eBay, but it's already up to $330.

Jim

You've obviously never been nailed by an airplane!

Good point. Airplanes are also very ironclad. However, I deliberately skipped talking about airplanes because those are so easy to spot from a long way off. The only times I've ever seen an airplane-assembly-line churning out tickets, I could see it from five miles away or more.

You'd have to be driving with blinders on to be nailed by an airplane. Either that, or you didn't know there was a such thing as airplane tickets. "Here I am on the freeway, and up ahead there's this Cessna flying VERY LOW and exactly parallel to the freeway. Oh, gee, isn't that cute, someone is out sightseeing... ... along the freeway..."

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Tony Fabris

Here in Mesa, AZ the newest fad in unmarked cars are pickup trucks. No visible signs on the outside as far as I could tell. I think they were Ford F150s, a year or two old. One was brown and the other was white. The headlights and taillights 'waggle' and the red and blue lights are mounted to the sun visor, the officer flips the visors down and then turns the lights on. The officer has a special uniform, just a polo shirt, with no markings on it, except near the waist where he was wearing his badge, gun, cuffs, etc. He was also in blue jeans. Very scary indeed.

Ouch, I still haven't seen pickups in CA. There's a lot of Broncos, but no actual pickups. That'd get me for sure, as I deliberately skip over pickups when scanning.

You know what would really get me? (Hope no HP buyers are reading this...) If it was a Japanese or a German car. Like a VW or a Honda or a Toyota. So far, the one common denominator is that the government vehicles always come from the USA.

Stick a cop in an unmarked black Jetta, for example, and it'll nail me every time.

Another one I always ignore are Minivans, even American ones. Anyone ever see an unmarked HP minivan? That'd nail me for sure.

Another thing I watch out for when scanning is the number of persons in the vehicle. If an unmarked CHP had two people in it, it'd probably nail me, as I pass over multi-passenger cars while scanning.

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Tony Fabris

The thing about it, as I've talked to a few HP....

95% of the people they WANT to get are stopped by marked cars. If someone is moderately exceeding the limit, but driving in a safe manner, ala paying attention, then 99% of the time, they aren't going to get stopped.

Of course, this discounts the bat out of hell drivers, and the cop with a stick up his.... but honestly, the careful drivers aren't what they are looking for... Most of the time.

It just seems a waste of money for them to outfit all of these unmarked vehicles when 95% are going to get caught in an ambush or aren't paying enough attention to see a marked vehicle....

But then we ARE talking about government....

Another thing I watch out for when scanning is the number of persons in the vehicle. If an unmarked CHP had two people in it, it'd probably nail me, as I pass over multi-passenger cars while scanning.

Interesting. Here in Germany, you could skip over single-passenger cars. That' because our HP (or our equivalent thereof) needs at least one witness besides the officer who is writing the ticket. Cars with more than two people in them are unlikely to be HP cars though.

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, #080000113)

I spent a few years on a project in Fresno watching CHP lazily loop over I-5, and I was absolutely chock full of airplane-aware hubris until I got nailed. Those spots on the east slope of the Cascades where I-82 and 90 traverse a ridge and flip their exposure? Well, I've learned to look for those transitions. Oh, and I just had to have an excuse to get that Icom R3 scanner for east-side road trips. Now if I can figure out how to make that trip the cell phone mute.

Jim

And the claims that a Valentine One can detect radar around curves is spot on! Frequently, in my area, they will set up the "courtesy radars" reminding you of your speed. I have run back and forth by these testing my Valentine One and it usually picks up the radar with a higher reading nearly a 1/2 mile before it can be seen, including curves. And it's saved me a few times in the speed trap areas. Basically you get used to the "normal traffic" that the detector picks up, and then be aware of abnormal behavior, that's when the radar is around.

One thing I wonder is will the Valentine One pick upa radar jammer as a radar signal? Sometimes I get full indicator when certain cars pass me and I pass them, etc. I'm 99% sure they'r enot cops..

"Bogey @ 9 oclock, showing 7 on the Ka band"
"Got 'em! Reducing speed to 65..."


Dave Clark
Austin, Texas
12g Blue MK2
S/N was 80000329 -> now 90000970

Those spots on the east slope of the Cascades where I-82 and 90 traverse a ridge and flip their exposure? Well, I've learned to look for those transitions.

Interesting. I've never seen an airplane trap like that before. I'll keep my eyes open in those situations. Thanks for the tip.

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Tony Fabris

Anyone ever see an unmarked HP minivan?

Here, they have marked mini-vans. They are unmanned (except for one officer usually sitting in the cab, reading or something). They are bristling with cameras though. The radar they use is very low powered (my Whistler picks them up at a very low level about 1/2 block before I get to them, it has picked up regular radar 2 miles away, on the other side of a hill). If you are speeding, they take a picture of the front of the car (centered on the driver), and the back (so they can get the license plate, which isn't required on the front in AZ). Sometimes they have warning signs up of the 'photo enforcement zone ahead', but not all the time.

They also have hidden camera/radar traps in certain areas, such as the medians disguised as a cactus. They also have cameras at a bunch of intersections that get tripped if somebody runs a red light (AZ has like 2 of the top 3 cities for worst red light running, maybe 3 out of the top 5).

It just seems a waste of money for them to outfit all of these unmarked vehicles

Seems to me that it wouldn't be any more expensive to outfit an unmarked vehicle than a marked one. Which brings me to your other point...

95% of the people they WANT to get are stopped by marked cars. If someone is moderately exceeding the limit, but driving in a safe manner, ala paying attention, then 99% of the time, they aren't going to get stopped.

This sounds logical, until you consider the fact that they do employ unmarked vehicles. In my eye, an unmarked HP has only one purpose: To sneak up on, and nail, otherwise-attentive speeders. (There's a Red October reference in here somewhere, I think...)

Sure, you may have spoken to some enlightened HP officers who espouse that philosophy, and they might even be in the majority. But there is still the one aspect of HP operations that's simply a ticket-making machine. That's the part that I'm concerned about.

The fact is that tickets generate a certain amount of revenue for the local governments and the state. Agreed, your fines don't pay for the highway patrol, but revenues from fines are a factor in budgets. If the highway patrol was only ever interested in safety, then they wouldn't have any need for ticket quotas or unmarked cars.

I'm not saying it's wrong to write tickets to speeders. The HP does a good job of keeping the peace on our freeways, and they perform a necessary function. I wouldn't have things any other way. The fact that they keep me on my toes is a good thing.

If only I could get them to enforce "Slower Traffic Keep Right" as much as they enforce the speed limit, I'd be a happy camper.

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Tony Fabris

Don't get me started on Cameras!

I will say that photo-radar is definitely one good reason to own a detector.

As far as the red-light-running cameras are concerned, it makes me angry that they're even necessary. I read (I think it was in Car and Driver) that cities have been deliberately increasing the traffic signal intervals. The theory is that longer signal intervals will improve overall traffic flow.

But if the signals were shorter, then people wouldn't think, "oh my god, if I don't make this yellow then I'll be stuck here for five freaking minutes." If they just sped up the signal intervals again, then people wouldn't want to run the red lights so much and they wouldn't need the cameras in the first place.

Classic example of solving one problem only to create new ones.

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Tony Fabris

If an unmarked CHP had two people in it, it'd probably nail me, as I pass over multi-passenger cars while scanning.

That's bizarre, I do exactly the opposite here in the UK. As far as I know traffic cops always travel in pairs in the UK, so I tend to ignore suspcious cars that only have one person in (and daytime on weekdays in the UK that is most cars).


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Unit serial number 47 (was 330 in the queue)...

What you need are more roundabouts..

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Unit serial number 47 (was 330 in the queue)...

No kidding. But US drivers aren't accustomed to roundabouts. They just installed one here near the college. I have a friend that works in an office building next to the roundabout, and it surprises and confuses everyone who tries it for the first time. I nearly got slammed on it just the other day.

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Tony Fabris

Seems to me that it wouldn't be any more expensive to outfit an unmarked vehicle than a marked one. Which brings me to your other point...


I did hear that all of that hidden gear is more expensive, but I agree, it's not much more over the cost of the car... The problem is that it is KNOWN, and has been shown in numerous studies that the presence of marked cars is a known deterant. Therefore, for every UNMARKED car, you are reducing your visible presence and therefore deterant capability. Unless you want to everyone thinking that "That next car COULD be a cop"... Which sounds fine in theory.. but blows when compared to reality.


I'm not saying it's wrong to write tickets to speeders. The HP does a good job of keeping the peace on our freeways, and they perform a necessary function.


I don't even have a problem with this. If anything, MY problem is from the insurance-government tie-in that has taken place. I don't mind paying for a ticket (although I haven't to date.. knocking on wood now)... It's the raping of the insurance fee's for the next 5 years that pisses me off......

(RANT)
ESPECIALLY from certain Insurance agencies that make a Great deal of publicity over "Protecting our highways" by giving away Radar and lidar guns to Police departments.... Protecting our highways, my ass... Increasing your revenue stream by using our publicly paid officials as your lackeys. Gieco (or however you spell it) can bite my ass. (/rant)

I think most "REAL" drivers would agree that the police would be better utilized actually enforcing SAFETY issues than Insurance revenue collections. Speed by itself IS NOT Dangerous. Speeding in an unsafe manner IS. Hell, driving 50MPH UNDER the flow of traffic is more dangerous, but I don't see the HP doing any enforcement of that... (Seemingly prevalent in Florida.... home of 90+year old drivers)...

Nor do you see them going after unsafe merges, morons swerving all over the road talking on cell phones....

Gee, I guess I closed that rant too soon...

Unfortunately, It's far easier to ticket people for speeding, less chance of a "judgement" call in court being overturned, easily demonstratable (although I leave my GPS in the car on no matter WHERE or HOW fast I'm going... It's nice to have a millisecond record of exactly how fast you were going when they say you were doing X... Plus, it's more accurate that my speedometer, and I'd dare say... Most Radar guns.)... and when it comes down to it, as a generallization, the speed cops are lazy.

(I can say that with a fair amount of reference.. My father was a MP for 26 years, and some of our best friends have been either Military police or local law enforcement.) It is unfortunate, as there are good cops out there.... It just seems that (in their opinion, and mine) they are definitely the minority.

As an aside to this, which I find hillarious as HELL, the town my parents live in has had a most unusual policy for the last 4 years... NO ONE with a county plate is stopped within the city limits for traffic violations or littering. The moment you step out of the city limits, you're fair game, and they patrol hard. But it seems that the Mayor made a decree in order to get the votes for re-election (only the city residents can vote for him... )

Because that increases safety...

You should see some of the odd ones we have in the UK. They have a large roundabout in the centre (with about a 40 metre diameter) with 6 smaller roundabouts spaced around the outside.

You have to treat each small roundabout as an individual one, meaning that you can progress around the central roundabout either clockwise or anti-clockwise.

I have never worked out the benefit of them, and I only know of two in the whole of the UK.

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Unit serial number 47 (was 330 in the queue)...

ESPECIALLY from certain Insurance agencies that make a Great deal of publicity over "Protecting our highways" by giving away Radar and lidar guns to Police departments....

I hadn't heard about that one. Now that's pretty slimy.

From the Hitchhiker's Guide, by way of the Trillian web site:

Trillian spoke up: "You know they've reintroduced the death penalty for insurance company directors?"
"Really?" said Arthur. "No I didn't. For what offence?"
Trillian frowned. "What do you mean, offence?"

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Tony Fabris

That is such a classic line.

What are we going to do without Mr Adams ?

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Unit serial number 47 (was 330 in the queue)...

And I would hate to see an eight lane freeway populated by British drivers...

...the two outside lanes would be occupied by people aggressively tailgating, with brake lights cascading down the line of trafffic every two seconds...

...in the mean time I would be siting in the inside lane doing exactly the same speed as the other crazies anyway...

The other five lanes would be completely empty!

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Unit serial number 47 (was 330 in the queue)...