http://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/32c3-dieselgate-inside-the-vws-ecu/

I found that video very interesting, it goes through the specific programming of the cheat function exposed through reverse engineering of the ECU. A really excellent talk, and worth a watch.

Thanks for posting this. When I get some free time, I will watch those talks so that I can understand the details better.

I find it interesting that the cover article repeats what that other libertarian article said:



I agree that gaming the tests is still wrong when you're talking about our planet's climate. But maybe the people who design the tests are also partially to blame here: The tests should not be so easy to game. I hope that this scandal has given them a wake up call, and has made them start working on improving the tests.

There are plenty of examples in other aspects of our legal system where people game the system. In most of those cases, we either applaud them for "sticking it to the man", or we shrug our shoulders. For instance, the way large corporations weasel out of paying taxes: When they follow the letter of the law and successfully get out of paying the taxes, we don't fine them for breaking the law, we complain at our lawmakers for having the loopholes in the tax code. Why are we treating the emissions tests differently?

Laws are often inconsistent and complicated, and as long as the lawbreakers still have an incentive to skirt the law and exploit loopholes, they will do so. There should be as many protections as possible to plug loopholes. We make prisons escape-proof because the inmates have an incentive to break out, so a lot of technology has gone into that. Since cheating on an emissions test is something serious (arguably more serious than an inmate breaking out of prison), then we should apply some technology in that direction too.

The video is awesome! They reversed hacked the code, and found it was programmed to detect the testing protocol, and if and only if it was met, the engine would run clean. Otherwise, it would run dirty.

Fabulous hacking! Lousy testing protocol...

-jk

I watched the video. It's really a smoking gun that this is absolutely a deliberate attempt to detect the testing cycle and produce the desired output just for the test. This is exactly the kind of detailed analysis of the code that I wanted to see.

It's also interesting how, in the video, they talk about how other car companies were caught doing the same thing, and that this kind of cheating is widespread. But the companies who did it in the past are not well-known for it in the way the VW is today. In the video, I think they said it was BMW in, I think they said 2000, who were caught doing this and they got caught and then fixed the problem, and then were smug about it when VW was caught in the crosshairs this year.

I think that my initial impression that VW was being unnecessarily singled out by the media is still true. But my suspicion that this might be something more subtle than obvious test-cheating is not true. This is obvious cheating, and it's super clear-cut in the code, according to the demonstration. But I really needed that technical analysis to be convinced, because I know that the media twists things a lot.

Fascinating.

I'm afraid I must disagree.

Other manufacturers tuned their systems to legitimately pass the tests. The fact that the tests did not replicate actual driving conditions was not their concern. Had those cars been driven on the road in a fashion similar to what the government specified for the tests, the cars would have met the government requirements and in actuality would not have been polluting.

Volkswagen, on the other hand, had Bosch program their ECUs with two separate programs, one that passed the tests (just like the other manufacturers) and a second one that pretty much turned off all emissions control in order to give better performance at the expense of vastly excessive emissions. And the fun part is that the first program could never run on the road unless the engine temperature were some impossible negative degrees K, but would always run when the car was being emission tested.

That's not taking advantage of a discrepancy between test criteria and real life. I don't even have the words to describe what it is. Blatant, dishonest, egregious lying and cheating at the expense of the public at large (and even more so at the car owners' expense) in the name of greed and corporate profits.

I am not a fan of this sort of behavior, but I am also concerned that overreaction will cause "the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater". I hope that the people responsible for the punishment of Volkswagen will moderate their desire for revenge. How many of the 600,000 innocent workers employed by Volkswagen will lose their jobs if Volkswagen is driven out of business? If Germany's economy goes down the tubes, how will that affect the world economy? Just because I drive a Honda doesn't mean that I'm exempt from the possible financial repercussions of this debacle.

tanstaafl.

VW statement about what they did and didn't know:
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/03/volk...issues-in-2014/

It's directly admitting that some VW engineers decided to make the code changes to pass US emissions tests in 2005.

In addition the article states they, VW, intend to resume talks with the EPA today. This seems like it's been dragging on forever at this point without any sort of resolution. I'd love to know the details of those negotiations!

US settlement: $10.2 billion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...issions-scandal

"The German automaker will pay owners between $1,000 and $7,000 per vehicle in compensation and promised to fix the cars free of charge to keep them from spewing 40 times the legal limit of harmful nitrogen oxides, according to the AP. Of the $10.2 billion, about three-fourths would go to car owners, with the rest paying off government fines."


-jk

Too bad we can't pay the planet.

Does this seem to be a different kind of settlement?

It seems like more money is going to the consumers than to governments and lawyers.

Press event is Tuesday morning. I think we'll get a more clear picture then. I've seen numbers ranging from $5000 to $10000 for a buyback and the $1000 to $7000 for additional compensation. I'm really waiting to see what they offer and a time-line. Can I go to the dealer tomorrow? I doubt that, they are going to have to schedule this I'd think.

Maybe they should/could be forced to contribute to some sort of eco/green initiative to offset the cost of their increased emissions making them "carbon neutral" or similar?

The buyback tables can be found here:

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/att._1a_-_buyback_modification_table.pdf

There are separate tables for the mileage adjustments as well.

Overall I think a fair deal.

In addition to the buybacks (a fix program is to be released at a later date, if technically possible and agreed upon by regulators) there is a penalty of $4.7 billion by the EPA.



https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/volkswa...s-and-deceiving

"Consumers who choose the buyback option will receive between $12,500 and $44,000, depending on their car’s model, year, mileage, and trim of the car,"

Whoa! Somebody is serious about this!

tanstaafl.

So, if you keep it and it never meets reg, are you going to be allowed to drive it?

Interesting question. If your car passes its yearly emissions test, is there any way they can detect if it was repaired or not?

More specifically:
- If you don't get it fixed, it passes the test because of the cheatcode.
- If you do get it fixed, then it passes the test honestly.

I don't know if there's a way for a local emissions-test station to be able to tell the difference. Is there something like a firmware version number that the OBDII connection reports? If so, they could probably check that.

I was wondering more what happens if you choose to keep the car and no repair ever enables it to pass smog.

California has provisions for cars that fail. They involve making multiple attempts to repair the car until a dollar limit is reached, then you have to go to a referee. And you are dealing with the DMV sloths the whole time, who will take your fees and not provide a tag until your car passes, or gets the exemption.

Yeah, I knew about those particular rules regarding a car that can never pass smog. I used to live in CA and they have pretty much the same rules in WA where live now. I'm sure these diesels are all under the same set of rules: If it doesn't pass smog, you can spend X dollars to try to make it pass, and if that doesn't fix it, you get a certificate which says "well at least we tried", which lets you keep driving it.

My point is: With these VW diesels, if you choose to keep the car and also choose to *not* get it repaired (ie, you don't take it in for the recall to get the cheatcode removed), then none of the above will ever apply.

The whole point of the cheatcode was to make them pass tests every time. I'm assuming that whatever EPA test they were originally cheating on is slightly more rigorous than whatever the corner smog station can dish out. So VW diesels which didn't go in for their "cheatcode-removal repair" will always pass the tests at the corner smog station.

The interesting question is, whether the corner smog station will care whether it's running the cheatcode or not, or if they even have any way of knowing.

Can VW tie the compensation to having gotten the repair done? Is VW required to share the repaired / non-repair list with EPA & state DMV/RMV, thus enabling them to black list un-repaired cars?

Probably not on both of the above. The second one probably has privacy issues, and first because anything that gives the impression of VW not handing over the cash promptly is likely to be frowned upon.

Yes, they will know by reading the obdII version number.

I figured there might be something like that in there.

My guess, then, is if you don't remove the cheatcode then it won't pass smog because they'll see your computer's version number as one of the bad ones, and reject it outright. And since VW intends to pay for the cheatcode removal process (ie it's a recall, not something you have to pay for), then you won't be able to use the "I paid X dollars" excuse, so you're not eligible for the exception. From that reasoning, I think that most VW owners have to either take advantage of the buyback or take it in for the recall repair.