I guess this would be the forum to post this. I am looking for >constructive criticism< on my setup, any tips, tricks, hints, or suggestions are pretty much welcome.

Here is my current setup:
deck: Clarion 5575 pro audio (empeg hopefully soon)
primary amp: PPI PC4200
going to:
front dash speakers: MB Quart RKB100 (4")
rear deck speakers: Kicker i690 (6"x9")
line out on 4200 (90hz low pass) to
secondary amp: PPI 2200
sub: Kicker 10" CompVR in ~.75-~1 cf sealed enclosure.
(Sub and amp are not installed... yet)

Any comments/suggestions on hardware?

I listen to primarily rock and metal with a little lighter stuff thrown in.

Would there be any benefit in getting a crossover? (my theory is that one would allow me to 'tune' the freq. range better for each speaker set so I don't have any 'gaps'). Or is should I just use the adjustment on the amp?

Thanks

Jake

Jake --

Congratulations on being one of the few car audio enthusiasts who, in my admittedly biased opinion, is doing things right!

You do NOT need big boxes full of 12" subwoofers and kilowatts of power to have a great sounding system. You will find, as you build your system, that the most important aspects are number and size of speakers, the acoustic characteristics of the vehicle itself (best results from a large vehicle interior with lots of cubic feet of air to move around), and most important of all, speaker location. Sounds like you are off to a good start.

Your PPI amp has, I think, a built-in crossover at about 90Hz for your 10" subwoofer. Try it crossed over, then press the button and try it full range. You might be surprised at which way you like better. Your RKB-100's also have crossovers built into them, probably around 3,000 Hz, I don't remember. You probably will not need any additional, external crossovers. Remember, too, that the empeg will (eventually - are you listening, Hugo? ;-) have a 20-band parametric equalizer built into it that will allow far more tuning than you could ever do with crossovers.

My only concern with your system is mid-bass. Maybe those 6x9's will cover you in the 200-1000Hz range, maybe not. You might consider a pair of 6" MB-Quarts in your doors, mounted as high as you can and still keep the windows working. Those 4" RKB-100 MB Quart speakers you mentioned will probably turn out to be the best stereo investment you ever made, except possibly the empeg. ;-)

You might also give serious consideration to not doing the line-out business to the secondary amp, but running equalized (split) inputs from your head unit to each amplifier separately. This gives you so much more control - you can use one amp for the bass/sub-bass speakers, the other amp for the higher frequency speakers, and then do your crossover (or not) on the amps for each set of speakers independently. There is also a lot to be said for the separate gain control you will have for each set of speakers.

I have had very good results with a system not that much different from yours -- substitute 6" door speakers for your 6x9's in the rear deck, and it is much the same: dual PPI amps, MB-Quart speakers, single 10" subwoofer in the rear, etc.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Thanks, I just hope spending all this time and money will pan out and I will get an empeg!
Here are the specs for my 6x9s:
6x9 midrange/bass cone
1" tweeter (all titanium if I remember)
4ohm
30hz-21khz freq response
125watts peak 90watts continuous
92dB 1w/1m
pic:
http://www.kicker.com/1999/images/i690.gif

However, (hear cash registers ringing)
I have been eyeing the MB Quart 6x9s. My local shop has them for $199 2way or $249 3way.

I checked the manual and if I use the line out on the first amp (4200 running 4ohm 4way) it makes it a 90hz lowpass output to the second amp (2200 bridged 4ohm mono). That is why I was wondering if I might need a crossover if I want to run the sub with a little higher frequency range. Else I would loose the front/rear fade-ability if I took the rear set of preouts off of the 4200 and put them on the 2200.

Believe me, you will probably be able to see my grin on this board when I get all of this working!

again I welcome all input...
Jake

For that kind of money, you could get separates and avoid the generally sub-standard 6x9 coaxials.

A speaker is best round, not oval. :)

I got the sub and amp install... sounds pretty good except for my trunk lid rattling at the bass level I want. I picked up some dynamat and will hopefully install that soon.

Instead of a crossover I have been glancing at some equalizers. I was looking at some AudioControl EQTs because I have heard some good things about them.

Then tanstaafl, are there any good reference books/manuals that explain how to tune for an IASCA competition? (other than the iasca handbook)

Jake

If you want to compete seriously in IASCA, you will need to get the official IASCA competition CD. That CD and the liner notes contain invaluable information about how to set up your stereo to meet the expectations of the judges.

You also need a good ear and an idea of what to listen for. Best way to do that is to attend a competition, but since the IASCA season is pretty much over for the year, I don't see any events scheduled in the Minnesota area. If you go to the IASCA website (http://www.iasca.com/) you can check out their schedule. Assuming you do find a competition, ask the judges to point out to you one of the better sound quality cars. Trust me when I tell you that the owner of that car will be overjoyed to show off his stereo. Play the IASCA CD, and have him tell you the things that he thinks make his stereo better than the others on the various tracks. You'll learn a lot, both about what can be done with car audio, and what the judges expect to hear.

Don't try and make changes quickly. You have to set it up, live with it a few days, and then decide that "...needs more mid-bass and the treble is too bright" or some such. Make your changes, then live with it a few days more. When you've done this for about a year, you'll have a good sounding system, assuming that your speaker size, speaker location, and vehicle acoustics are suitable.

If you want to go completely off the deep end, to to a professional stereo shop where they have an RTA meter (Real Time Analysis) and play the pink noise track from the IASCA disk. You will see quite graphically where the deficiences in your stereo lie. But don't make the mistake of thinking that if you get perfect equalization (i.e., a straight line on the RTA) that you will have perfect sound. It will sound terrible. But any shop with an RTA will be able to advise you on what curve will sound best.

Good luck and good listening. Be sure and post a review of your system on the BBS when you get it running, and register it with http://www.empeg.mars.org/registry/ so we know how far along empeg is in the waiting queue!

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Yes, I agree, mid base is your friend, and with 4" MB's in the dash your entire front stage is from around 300HZ and up. I never though I was missing any midbass until I installed a 3 way componet set in my doors. A sealed 61/2" a sealed 4" and titanium dome. this setup is night and day to just a standard door or dash speaker. Even if you purchase the best speakers around, it comes back to the enclosure. you need it to get the bass response. If you just like trebble just set up a pair of 6x9's on your rear deck so people can see the magnets, lots of trebble. The size is also important a 4" cone just can't move enough air to give good midbass, a 5 1/4 is better and running 61/2" you can usally/safely run your subs to 100hz or so and pick from the with the 61/2's. Depends on the music you like, Rap or heavy dance, you might want to move it up to 120hz. I use MB Quart too and love the sound from them.

Rock On.......

Do you think I could run that 10" sub and a set of 5 or 6" (in the doors) adequately mixed mono off of that PPI PC2200? I don't really want to buy and setup another amp.

jake

I don't know model numbers, is that ppi a 2 or 4 channel? if its a 4 channel bridge 2 and run a cross over, or its built in one, for the sub, bass is normally mono anyway, then run the other 2 channels for the doors. you need more power for your bass than your mids and highs, if your not trying to pump bass out of a 6" speaker it will sound better and last longer. its always better to have more pwer than not enough.

it is a 2channel x 50w @ 8ohm then it drops to 2x100w for 4ohm or 200watts x 1 channel.

jake

The best thing to do, use that amp for the doors or bridge it for the sub, either way you need another amp. running it mono would'nt be a good way to set it up, not saying that you can't but for the purpose of a crossover and just having stereo sound it would be better. Bass is usally mono, above 150-200 hz usally is, or if you think it might be a problem just run the right and left channels together and it make it mono.

I can run the amp mixed mono with a minimum 2ohm stereo load and then tap a minimum 4ohm mono load on it without losing the stereo channels. Then all I would need would be a crossover. Possible?

jake