Well, with (so cool) version 2.00-beta3 loaded on the new Mk2a "backup" I am progressively trying to clean up past sins in my earlier, rushed ripping/encoding of CDs. I have reconciled all misspelled and duplicate artist names and eliminated all leading instances of "The". Soundtracks are now Soundtracks and have real artist info. Life is good.

Aside from a plug for 2.00-beta3, the plug is for MP3 Tag Studio (from www.magnusbrading.com). I think it is mentioned in one of the FAQs, but I couldn't resist a little additional plug/bump. The initial adware behavior was a pain, but it took me only about a day to decide to spend the $19 to register. Much better now. I've used it to mass-fix truncated titles/albums and years, get those accented characters back in titles, fine-tune genre info and lots of other stuff. If the existing track info was already correct, I'll just re-edit the year to "touch" each mp3 and synch v1 and v2 tag info.

I should feel as good about every other $19 I've ever spent! End of plug...

Agreed, it's great software. The adware component, however, is evil. My hard drive was running full blast at random times when I wasn't using the computer. I tracked it down to a program called "CD_Load.exe", which turns out to be the from the CyDoor adware package, using by MP3 Tag Studio.

There's lots of information about CyDoor here:
http://www.cexx.org/cydoor.htm.

Luckily, you can remove the original CyDoor DLLs and replace them with some dummy files that pretend to be the adware.
http://www.cexx.org/dummies.htm

I didn't mind the advertisements, but I did mind my hard drive grinding away in the middle of the night from their buggy adware.

DWallach: . The adware component, however, is evil....

Yep. I will admit that I had a few ambivalent moments....Do I want to reward Mr. Brading for subjecting me to this?... I had never seen such aggressive adware -- spawned all sorts of stuff. Ultimately I decided that, while I didn't like it, I could live with it as a shareware gambit -- pay $19 or de-install it? I paid.

Thanks for those links. I'll probably grab those DLLs anyhow just in case I run into this again. My habit is to register shareware I like anyhow, but I could live without that preliminary CyDoor aggravation.

I use a program called "AD-AWARE" by Lavasoft which prunes the hard disk of all known adware.

MP3 tag studio stopped working when I removed all my adware.

My question: When you register tag studio, does it work completely without adware, or does it still require the adware code to exist on the hard disk? Some programs still need the DLL's even if they don't get invoked. CD_LOAD was causing all sorts of problems on my system and I refuse to have it installed at all.

This might be a stupid question, but I assume that when you say you're cleaning up all the MP3s using the software, that you'll need to upload them all again to the player. There isn't any way to edit the tags with 3rd party software while on the Mk2?

I assume that when you say you're cleaning up all the MP3s using the software, that you'll need to upload them all again to the player.

Depends on what you're trying to do.

The whole idea of using a product like MP3 Tag Studio is to clean up the tags in the collection on your PC. Generally, you should do this BEFORE you send the files to the player in the first place.

There isn't any way to edit the tags with 3rd party software while on the Mk2?

There isn't any way to edit the tags PERIOD on the player at all. The tags are not touched once they're in the player.

You're perfectly welcome to rename things with Emplode once they're on the player. With the 2.0 release, there are actually some pretty nifty renaming features in Emplode.

The only problem is that Emplode only edits the player's database. It does not edit any actual MP3 tags. It does not write the changes into the MP3 files, either on the player or on your PC's hard disk. It's just changes fields in the player's database.

This is why many people are asking for utilities to help them. There can be a discrepancy between the tags on their PC and the database entries on their player. MP3 Tag Studio won't help you synch up your player and your PC, but it will help you get things right the first time before sending them to the player in the first place.

I've been searching for "dummy" dlls like the one linked at that site. I was sure they must have existed somewhere, I just didn't know where to find any. Nice.

In reply to:

---

There isn't any way to edit the tags PERIOD on the player at all. The tags are not touched once they're in the player.

---

I figured this was the case.

In reply to:

---

With the 2.0 release, there are actually some pretty nifty renaming features in Emplode.

---

Yeah, I just installed 2.0 last night. I'm very impressed with what a good job it does. I use a mix of the tag editing features in MUSICMATCH, along with MP3 Tag Studio when I'm editing my MP3s. MP3 Tag Studio is definitely the best tag editor out there. I'd love to see some of those features implemented into Emplode (eventually).

While on the subject of tags, I noticed that when I updated to 2.0, some of my MP3s are coming up as Invalid (while trying to play them). I'm not sure if they were invalid before the update to 2.0b3. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the switch of decoders? Also, is there a list of what ID3v2 tag elements aren't supported? I think the invalid files all have album art tagged on them, which may be confusing the player.

tfabrisMy question: When you register tag studio, does it work completely without adware...

Tony,

Once I registered, there was no *apparent* sign of adware activity. FWIW, I just copied over that dummy CD_CLINT.dll and MP3 Tag Studio fires up without problem. I may, though, download Ad Aware too see what other unsuspected problems I have ('Course this system is a pretty recent install...that keeps locking up...for reasons that I can't divine...maybe it was that DLL!!)

There is a known bug in 2.0 emplode, where tags with extra-long comment fields will mess up the synch, although I think your problem is different because it's happening on the player itself.

You could be correct in stating that the album-art data is making the files look invalid to the decoder. Stick enough junk in a file and the decoder might choke on it.

First, use MP3Trim to examine the file and see if it gives it a clean bill of health. If not, clean it up (re-save it in MP3Trim) and send it to the player again. (edit: Note, make sure to replace the tune by right-clicking and selecting replace tune, otherwise you'll have two copies of the file on the player.)

NOTE: Make sure to keep a copy of the "bad" version of the file. If it's a valid file but the new decoder chokes on it, the empeg guys will want a look at it.

svferris: This might be a stupid question, but I assume that when you say you're cleaning up all the MP3s using the software, that you'll need to upload them all again to the player.

Irrespective of any undiscovered new V2 editing capabilities, this is what I'm doing (One of the bonuses of having a "spare" -- start with a clean slate). I have a 90GB RAID-1 Linux box that is my repository (I rip with grip/LAME/cdparanoia on that box) and I point Tag Studio on my Win2K machine at the mp3 directory on that box. The long term goal is to have them both organized in the same way, so that when I rip something new, I fix all tags right then and there, put it in the right place to begin with, then move it to the same spot on the Empeg/s.

Here is another app that I've found to work quite nicely: ID3-TagIt for editing tags. Click on the little British flag for the english version. It does not appear to have any ad/spyware built in.

Happy Editing.

. I tracked it down to a program called "CD_Load.exe",
So that's where that thing came from thank you so much it's been causing me problems but I didn't know where it came from or what it was for.

So I did some testing with the files and it seems to be the album art screwing up the player. I took one MP3 that wouldn't play, simply removed the art and reuploaded. It then proceeded to work fine.

Should I report this? And to who?

Should I report this? And to who?

If you still have a copy of the file, report it to [email protected] and ask them if they want a copy of the bad file.

Oops...slight addendum...

It seems that some of my MP3s that were also tagged with album art are working ok. So, perhaps the ones that are failing were just bigger than what the player is willing to accept?

Is there a program (MP3Trim?) that can tell me how big the actual tag is within an MP3 file?

I am sure that MP3TagStudio is a great piece of software, but I have serious issues with supporting someone who would have the nerve to implement such aggressive Adware to the point were you have to hack your own machine to get it to work right. Seems like the Adware doesn't care if you installed the program and ran it only once or use it every day. Doesn't someone on this board work for MusicMatch? Maybe they can suggest some of the Mp3TagSudio features to be put into MusicMatch (and fix that Trip-Hop bug). (another "feature" is that with MusicMatch, you can't edit the "Comments" field).

Anyone have a link to Mp3Trim?

BTW: Being a longtime fan of Winamp, I have finally almost given up on it. I can update tags with it all day, but the changes are not reflected in emplode after I upload.

Anyone have a link to Mp3Trim?

It's in the FAQ. There's also this wonderful thing called a search engine you might want to investigate, I hear they're really useful...

Maybe they can suggest some of the Mp3TagSudio features to be put into MusicMatch (and fix that Trip-Hop bug).

I work for MusicMatch...and you don't even know how much I begged them to implement MP3TagStudio-type tagging in the most recent version. We just released it (7.0) yesterday. There were significant improvements to the tagging, but they didn't implement some of the features I wanted because it was "too advanced" for most of our users. It's too bad. They actually suggested I use MP3TagStudio (it was before I'd heard of the program).

What's this Trip-Hop bug?

Re-browsing through the entire FAQ (as wonderful as it is) probably isn't the most efficient way to find a link that "may" be there. Anyway, I did use the search fuction and found it thanks. You might also want to look into the "url" mark-up tags when refering to sites. They are really useful too..

Re: MusicMatch. I mentioned it in one of the "Empeg Reviews" threads, but basically, there is no "Trip-Hop" tag...only a "Trip-Top" tag which is probably a typo?

Heh, I always wondered that myself. I just assumed "Trip-Top" was some weird subgenre I hadn't heard of.

It doesn't really matter too much, since you can write in your own genres into the drop-down box anyways. I just write in Trip-Hop. But, I'll enter it as a bug anyways. Thanks.

You might also want to look into the "url" mark-up tags when refering to sites. They are really useful too..

Touche'.

Hehe, sorry Tony, you've definately been a great help anytime that I've ran into any trouble or had any questions. AND I'd say you (and Hugo of course) were the major factors in getting me to buy an empeg, so I thank you. And I have to admit that the second I hit the "Continue" button, I said to myself, "why don't you just do a search Brad?"

SVFerris:

In reply to:

---

Even record files offline, and get Tag information automatically next time you're online!

---

- That's great! My notebook is ripping CD's almost 24 hours a day, but I can't be connected all the time!

Hey, the Trip Top thing is fixed in the 7.0 version...hadn't even noticed.

That's great! My notebook is ripping CD's almost 24 hours a day, but I can't be connected all the time!

Yeah, I think we require people to be connected to the internet too much. A lot of customers actually think we're adware, but we don't do anything of the sort.

But definitely check out the new tagging stuff. It does cool things like if you have a track called:

01 - Santana - Oye Como Va

You can either extract that data out into the tag fields (Track#, Artist, Album), or you can have our database look it up and find the full ID3 tag data. Really good for tagging "Napster" tracks.

Ok, do I sound like a commercial or what...

You can either extract that data out into the tag fields (Track#, Artist, Album), or you can have our database look it up and find the full ID3 tag data. Really good for tagging "Napster" tracks.

Interesting feature. How well does it work?

Reason I ask is that when I do my own rips, the CDDB is sometimes wrong and that's when I need the fixed data. Are you saying you have a database that's more complete than the CDDB?

Sometimes I have to look up track details from compilation albums. For instance, if I buy a Greatest Hits, I want each song to be tagged with its proper original album instead of "greatest hits". Does the database handle that, too? And how does it tell the difference between say, a live track and a studio track?

See, I've been looking up this stuff by hand at allmusic.com all this time and wondering if there isn't a better way...

Tony, I know what you mean. I've spent hours at cdnow.com looking up the same information. Does it enter the correct artist name for compilations rather than "Various Artists"?

Is CDNow's database any easier to use than the one at allmusic.com in this respect?

Ok, here's an example...

I took six songs by Moxy Fruvous (great Canadian band). They were completely untagged. The filenames had the only info. They're named like the following:

Moxy Fruvous - Spiderman

When I do the lookup on them through MusicMatch, I get the attached screen. It grabs the top 5 matches from our database and automatically selects the best one. You can see that it mis-guessed on #2, but you can fix that by selecting the correct one.

When you're done, you say OK, and it applys all the track tag info to the tracks. There's also a command that can rename the files using the track info.

As for the data, it's our own database. We created it based on data from AMG (All Music Guide), which we use for our MusicMatch Guide.

I just installed 7.0 (I had to do it manually because "Update Software" didn't work), and love it! Also, I had never been to AllMusic.com and it is MUCH better for what I was doing than cdnow.com! Thanks guys!

Okay, that's pretty sweet.

I was looking up the same stuff, from the same AMG database, but in a much more kludgy "by-hand" fashion. This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for. I've got to check out that product...

Is that feature only in the pay version, or is it in the free version, too?

Never mind, I looked it up myself. That's supertagging, and it's in the $20.00 version.

Still, not a bad feature to have for 20 bucks.

I have the free version, and its annoying as hell. It keeps trying to connect to the internet all the time. even just playing a song causes it to try to connect. I didn't want to register, and it doesnt like that either. It keeps trying to get me to. I don't want to be spammed by musicmatch. Does anyone that has the pay version have these problems?

Yeah, they've become pretty aggressive when it comes to getting people to upgrade. Quite a few of us are kind of upset about the amount of spam that comes up in the free version. But, I'm in QA, and nobody listens to us.

Depending on what you're doing, there are a few different reasons it'll try to connect to the internet.

Ripping - Trying to connect to CDDB
Radio - It's internet radio, so obviously
Guide or Now Playing window open - Retrieve info from AMG
Listening to MP3s - Uploading of anonymous play logs

If you really don't want it to connect to the internet, you should be able to disable all this.

Go into the Now Playing window and click the "Online" button to take yourself offline. That should stop any song info retrieving.

You are given the option to opt-in or opt-out of playlog uploads. They're used for recommendations. If you don't want this, go to Options/Settings... and at the bottom of the General tab, there's a checkbox for uploading user pref info. You might also want to disable the periodic checking for updates (right above it).

Also in settings is the CDDB tab, which allows you to disable CDDB lookup.

I know that's a lot of stuff to do, but that should hopefully stop any internet connectivity.

Never mind, I looked it up myself. That's supertagging, and it's in the $20.00 version.

Damn...completely forgot about it being a Plus feature. They've been putting almost all our good features in the Plus version. It's definitely worth the $20.

If you want to see what it's like, go do a search on Google Groups for "MUSICMATCH serial". You'll get lots of hits. Copy one of the keys and put it into the jukebox.

Now, the jukebox will give you a warning that it's an invalid key (assuming you're online). But, it'll enable the plus features for 7 days. It'll at least give you a chance to check the features out. I don't know why we don't enable the features for a certain amount of days upon install.

It was a free version that came with my HP notebook, so maybe the options were different. I didnt see the option to disable the playlogs, I just got sick of it and uninstalled. Maybe ill give the new full version a try per other recent post.

Sean

I removed the version that came with my HP Notebook as well. Whatever you do, DON'T do the Recommended install - do the Custom. If you do it this way, you can automatically turn off a lot of the "features" without having to go through menus. I have CDDB turned off too becasuse I am usually not connected to the net. So when I do want CDDB info, I just hit the "refresh" button instead of waiting 30 seconds for it to time out when I am NOT connected.... I really don't want song recommendations, so I turned that off too.

I have registered, and I don't get any emails or spam. (just be sure not to check the box asking for email offers)

For Tony...

In reply to:

---

Is CDNow's database any easier to use than the one at allmusic.com in this respect?

---

I'd say no. But, sometimes it has details that aren't yet complete at AMG. The info at CDNOW is often very sketchy and you have to watch what you cut and paste. I know that for a couple of compilations I borrowed from my brother they had 3 distinct entries for each. All of them slightly different. A few of them with incorrect data (verified at AMG).

I have a handful of compilations I want to fix up like this, but it's not one of my priorities right now. I have a minimal number of compilations when compared to full-length original releases.

Bruno

Straight from the on MP3/Tag Studio's page:

Q: Will I be able to totally remove all the advert related files from my computer as soon as I register the program?
A: Yes! As soon as the program is registered, all the advert related files can safely be deleted from your system. You will get detailed instructions about how to do this together with the other registration info. Once you have registered the program on your computer, a special file will be created. In the future you can then download special totally advert-free versions of the program from the website that will work only if you have such a file.

Q: It's not enough for me to be able to remove the advert components after registering the program, I don't even want to install an adware-enabled program on my computer. If I register, can I have a totally adware-free install package?
A: Sure! Just send me a mail right after registering the program, and you will get instructions on how to acquire such an install package.

(Hmm... should I slap Tony for not reading a FAQ entry? Or is he going to complain that the FAQ wasn't easy enough to find, since it's under "Contact info"? Sorry, Tony... just couldn't resist!)

Also, as for whether the files stick around... I have the registered version and Ad-aware, so I can't say for certain, but I believe they are removed completely. Magnus is pretty good about respecting people's wishes.

Damm, that is AWsome! This just became the topitem on my Xmas wish list..only wish I had this a year ago.

One thing that I found http://allmusic.com wasn't good at was track listings for CD Singles. It would list them, but not give any detailed track info. I think for now, I will use AllMusic.com for most of my searching and CDNow.com to fill in the blanks.

This MusicMatch Deferred Tagging and Look-up..... well.... it kinda stinks. You'd think that a track titled "track 05" by James from the album James would fetch the title of the 5th track rather than giving me 4 random tracks to choose from... Good thing I have allmusic.com bookmarked!

Personally, I use a tool called Dr. Tag and I find it to be INCREDIBLE. I paid for this shareware. Its awesome and well worth the price. It does all the things you guys have mentioned, plus it has a few other cool tricks up its sleeve for converting filenames to ID3 and visa versa.. Check it here:

http://www.asterius.org/

-steve

You'd think that a track titled "track 05" by James from the album James would fetch the title of the 5th track rather than giving me 4 random tracks to choose from.

I completely agree. I already reported this to the guy who programmed the lookup. He told me that he hadn't even thought of using the track number as a lookup criteria. I told him why I thought it was important, and he said he'll look into implementing it soon. I'll forward on your comment as incentive to get it in.

I love the internet.

I know this isn't a MusicMatch forum, but I noticed with the old version of MusicMatch, cancelling a recording session deleted any unfinished tracks. Now, the track is left on the hard drive, even if only a small percentage of it was recorded. This has caused me to miss a few tracks because I see the file in the right folder and assume that the song was finished.....

And what about:

"Stop adjusting the volume

Perfect volume, all the time. Volume Leveling keeps steady volume applied to all your music, eliminating volume spikes or dips from track to track. And with the freedom to transfer your music to portable MP3 devices or CD, you'll enjoy perfect volume everywhere."

Careful - that 20 bucks will only get you upgrades for a limited period. I've run foul of this already.

Careful - that 20 bucks will only get you upgrades for a limited period. I've run foul of this already.

How is this different than any other piece of software you buy? If I bought Windows 95, it doesn't mean I get Windows 98 or 2000. If I buy Photoshop 5, it doesn't mean I get Photoshop 6.

Volume leveling is just a fancy name for normalization. We have a process where the jukebox can analyze the mp3 files and append a little piece of data about the peak volume to the ID3 tag. Then, when you turn on volume leveling, it reads this and normalizes the volume accordingly. You can also apply it when you burn CDs or transfer the MP3s to a portable device.

I haven't really played with it too much myself.

And as I've stated a million times, normalization will not make your songs sound at the same volume. Most CDs are already normalized, and so any normalization routine will not alter the song. Only by altering the dynamics of an recording can you make it seem to be at the same volume level as a different recording.

So, in a sense, the text copy which describes the feature (quoted earlier in this thread), assuming that it's really just normalization, is false advertising.

I wouldn't want any software altering the dynamics of my music files. Maybe some compression applied to the output would be okay. - so I prefer Musicmatch's approach. Compression changes the perceived volume or average output volume, but not the max output. So, I would have to think that it is not false advertisement.

What is true advertising? Making tracks the same volume level or making them "seem" the same volume?

Isn't it true that not all tracks are normalized to 0db?

Isn't it true that not all tracks are normalized to 0db?

CDs that are not normalized are quite rare. It's a standard part of mastering a CD.

Note that they are usually normalized to 97 or 98 percent of 0db. For making two differently-produced albums sound like they're at the same volume, a few percent isn't going to make a difference. Detailed discussion here.

Careful - that 20 bucks will only get you upgrades for a limited period. I've run foul of this already.

You can have lifetime free upgrades for $49.98 ($19.99 + $29.99) (if we are still discussing MusicMatch ).

Note that they are usually normalized to 97 or 98 percent of 0db.

I don't know the exact number, but we normalize on the fly to something like 90-95% of 0db.

As SE_Sport_Driver said, we don't actually alter the MP3 file (other than the ID3 tag).

Hi Tony.

I have to disagree with you on the normalization issue to some extend.
First let get a simple fact straight: A sine wave form that is going the full 16bit range .WAV files offer (i.e. using 100% amplitude) will appear to be of different volume depending on the frequency. That is why some normalization software tries to work on the "power" of the sounds instead of their amplitude like most of them do.
Now, I checked 10 randomly picked CDs out of my collection of 50 (well, I have more on MP3, but those were already normalized while ripping). Only 5 of them (all containing (only) songs that were first published within the last 3 years) where showing 95%-98% maximum amplitude, the rest varied from 75% to 90%. (Yeah, I love my plextor, couldn't have checked this fast without it.) Getting more investigative, I checked another 10, but the picture was about the same. Only those CDs that contained recently produced songs where normalized like you say (to about 95-98%). Those CDs that contained older songs (from 60s to mid 90s), even if they were produced lately (e.g. a sampler with irish folk (first published 1972), remastered 2000) varied from 70% peak amplitude to 99% peak amplitude.

In most cases, I wouldn't want to change the recorded volume anyway, as they mostly match the music (slow classic being more silent than Rock'n'Roll), expect for some occasions (empeg in car or on parties).

cu,
sven

That is why some normalization software tries to work on the "power" of the sounds instead of their amplitude like most of them do.

At that point we're getting into different definitions of normalization.

The official definition is to increase the volume of the waveform until its maximum peak is just short of clipping (regardless of the frequency). In that statement, you're referring to a different thing.

Regarding the percentage of CDs that weren't normalized, I was basing my "percentage" on my meager collection of about 200 major-label CDs. Everyone's collection is going to have a different percentage. I, too, have noticed that things like folk music sampler CDs (and other CDs that don't have an extremely large press run) tend to be more likely to be not normalized.

My main point is that even when two differently-produced pieces of music are equally normalized, they will still sound like they are playing at radically different volumes. Normalization won't make all your songs sound like they are at the same volume if they are produced differently.

How is this different than any other piece of software you buy? If I bought Windows 95, it doesn't mean I get Windows 98 or 2000. If I buy Photoshop 5, it doesn't mean I get Photoshop 6.

It's different cuz it is not obvious (or wasn't) when you first order. I wasn't slating it, it was just a reminder to make sure people go for the right option.

I have to disagree about your argument, though. Paint Shop Pro doesn't push you to upgrade to the lastest version every time you log onto the web. There is no warning on MusicMatch when you upgrade that you've already hit your limit and that from that point on you'll get annoying messages. And, take the empeg, you don't have to pay for the latest software upgrade for that, do you?

And, take the empeg, you don't have to pay for the latest software upgrade for that, do you?

I don't think it's fair to compare firmware upgrades to software upgrades.

Also, could you give me more info on the "limit" you're talking about with MusicMatch? If you've bought the Plus version and entered your key, you shouldn't be getting any nag screens, unless you're using a pirate key.

We haven't yet implemented actual checking for using old keys in newer versions (although it's coming soon), so you should be able to use your older key (from as far back as 4.x) in the new 7.0.

Hi Tony.

My main point is that even when two differently-produced pieces of music are equally normalized, they will still sound like they are playing at radically different volumes. Normalization won't make all your songs sound like they are at the same volume if they are produced differently.

I support your main point: Normalization (if you refer to the one that increases the amplitude (almost) as much as possible without clipping) will not make sure that two songs sound as being the same volume if they aren't ment to (and produced to, to use your words). However, there are only a few possibilities to make two songs sound as loud as each other (to a certain extend):

1. Normalize in the classic (amplitude) way. This leads to songs with similar peak volume. only similar, not the same, because of the difference between amplitude and volume.


2. Normalize in the more modern (power) way. This leads to songs with the same peak volume, but that peak volume might be reached during 80% of the playtime for one song, but only for 1% of the other, leading to different 'experienced' volumes nontheless.


3. Use one of the above, but change the normalization factor dynamically during the play (also called compression, like the voladj-Kernelpatch does). This will probably lead to extremely similar experienced volumes, but might disturb the artistic experience during the play of a single song if there are prolonged intentionally (more) silent periods.

The whole thing is: Todays Pop music is almost always compressed (volume wise) and almost all Pop CDs are also normalized to approx. 98% of the maximum possible peak amplitude, so normalization and also compression (again, volume wise) won't give you any advantage in most cases. If you are in an extremely unfriendly (loud) environment, you probably do gain some davantage by using dynamic sound compression (like voladj), if you are in a friendly (silent) environment, you probably will loose a little of the intended artistic experience.
If you are listening to classic or older Rock/Pop music, normalization (no matter if amplitude or power wise) will probably help in both environments, while dynamic compression imposes the same (dis)advantages as with modern Pop.
So, when you do use normalization, my tips are:

• Be aware that, depending on your music collection, you won't gain much, but leaving CPU time aside, you don't loose anything either.
• Therefore, use normalization, but if you ask me, tell your software to only normalize (to approx. 98%) if the peak volume (resp. amplitude) is below 95%. Your would be able to tell the difference between a 95% and a 98% song anyway.

The reason why I won't recommend normalizing to 100% is that the encoding to MP3 and it's subsequent decoding sometimes increase the peak amplitude of a song to some extend, and using 98% normalization, you don't take the risk of that causing any clipping on the empeg's digital part.

Do we agree now?

cu,
sven

Do we agree now?

Yes. You're more or less saying the same things that I wrote here.

But I'm not sure what the difference is between numbered items 1 and 2 on your first list. If the resulting songs all have the same peak volumes in both versions, how are they different?

I understand your point about the difference between analyzing RMS volume versus analyzing peak volume, but if in the end, the files get normalized to the same amount (ie, no peak ever clips and all peaks fall in the same range), then the analysis method doesn't matter. Do you have an example of a piece of software that does #2 without resorting to dynamic compression?

Hi.

Right, _if_ they get normalized to the same amount. But actually, if they are analyzed differently, they will get normalized by different amounts. Also, RMS volume is still a little bit off the analysis I thought of. Do you know of the sone (as opposed to dBA) loudness indicator? Like dB(A), it weights different frequencies differently, so a full-peak 50Hz tone gets a different loudness indication than a 5000Hz tone, but sone is linear (dB is logarithmic), so a sone 2 loudness will actually be twice as loud as a sone 1 loudness. Now normalising due to the same peak amplitude becomes a whole different story as normalising to the same sone values.
Anyhow, I haven't yet tried this out, so I can't say how much different this would be. I know there is normalisation software out there that uses some sort of power based normalisation, but I don't know which one does. So for now, I will keep using software that does the simple peak amplitude normalisation.
I don't like dynamic compression all that much, because that also changes the relative volume of different parts of the same song, and I can't really influence that to a level I would like to take influence on it, so I skip over dynamic compression for now.

cu,
sven

So how do these other normalization routines cope with this pathological example? Can you give an example of software that handles it?

So, this is probably a stupid question, but would the VolAdj work for a system where the RioCar is plugged into the head unit (and thus equalizer and loudness don't work)?

Yes.

However, it will only fix the volume level on the MP3 files you play, not on anything you're playing on the head unit.

But it will work with any volume, loudness, or equalizer setting. Because it doesn't actually change the volume setting, it simply modifies the dynamics of the raw digital audio data.

Hi Tony.

It would probably amplify the classical part at the expense of some clipping, or attenuate the Pop part to a very low volume. At least if the "loud" part of the classical one was long enough. AFAIK, that type of software still avoids clipping if possible.
And no, like I said, I know how that type of software should work, and that there are some such programs out there, but don't know any specific package that uses this approach. I have a tendency to absorb interesting facts about different technical things but to forget about real world implementations of that. Sorry. If I stumble about some such software, I will say so in here.

cu,
sven