So how come nobody makes a CD changer with standard RCA outputs? You seem to only be able to get ones that have a proprietary connector, or ones that connect via the tuner. Which sounds utterly crap.

It really seemed logical to me that if everyone is keen to manufacture changers that can interface with other head units, then they'd use the simple and industry standard way of doing it, instead of reinventing the wheel.

Anyone else out there keen to see if there is a way of converting the proprietary connector of something like a 10 disc Sony into stereo RCAs? Then, we just use the external controller to control it, and line it into the Auxc channel in the back....

Well, fundmentally, it is a cost issue. Every vendor needs to be able to send disk control/selection information and not just suck back audio channels back into the head unit. Since it is going to be cheaper to bundle those 3 or 4 audio connections into a larger harness carrying the control signals vs. having two seperate sets of connectors (audio and control) including holes in the metal, mount hardware, and PCB space. Every penny saved adds up to better margins for the manufacturer.

The other element is that due to the competitive nature of branding, there is no real incentive to create compatible systems or share interface technology. If you have Brand X head unit you're "lead to" the path of buying Brand X's changer system too.... More accessories to sell = more accessories sold = more money for Brand X.

I believe there is probably a pretty consistent set of data being exchanged, but there is amply enough reasons to make it all proprietary per vendor.

What a world, what a world....
Tim

Yes, I agree that it sucks that there is little in the way of "standards" for CD changer connections.

It's strange that all the big car audio companies which THRIVE on the fact that certain standards exist for car audio (RCA plugs, amp remote control wires, 12v power source, switched ignition lines, DIN-sized mountings), suddenly forget that Standards Are A Good Thing and deliberately make proprietary interfaces for their CD changers. This is just brain-damaged, everyone knows that there is REAL money to be made when standardization allows the customer volume to go up.

Good news is that there ARE adapter systems which allow you to cross-connect differing proprietary interfaces. There are several companies which make this kind of system, have a search around the web. I think I even link one or two of them in the car-installation section of the FAQ. Check it out.

Interesting, I didn't know such adapters were readily available. I really badly want to be able to control a CD changer from my empeg. Does anyone know if there's any projects out there that have successfully written free software to control any CD changer? If we could get that code running on empeg then what else would we need? From what little I understand, it would require some type of hardware to convert from RS232 serial to the proprietary signaling format.

You didn't say anything about controlling a CD changer from the Empeg. That's a whole entire other can of worms, and we cover that one in the FAQ.

The only currently-useful way of interfacing a CD changer to the Empeg right now is to get one of the remote-control universal CD changer kits (or an adapter system), and connect that into the empeg's line-input. But all that would get you is the sound from the CD changer piped through the empeg, and a separate remote-control screen for the changer. Controlling the changer from the empeg screen involves a whole other layer of custom electronics and software which simply doesn't exist.

As I said in the FAQ:

"And why would you want it to control a CD changer anyway? It's meant to free you of the hassle of ever having to carry CDs around. Its capacity is orders of magnitude greater than any car CD changer.

If all you want is to listen to the occasional CD, then just get a cheap portable CD player that you can plug into its aux-in. Get the cheapest one you can, because it'll just gather dust in the glove compartment, trust me."

Well, I was annoied by this once too, then I bought the empeg.

But, I wanted to hook a mp3 player up to my sony headunit once and started to
dig out all the info I could find on the unilink. (Even fried a $800 Sony head unit to dead..) After buying the Empeg I gave up on the whole thing, I did turn over my findings to another guys who mailed me about the same thing.

There is now a working PIC microntroller which will let you enable the AUX input of your sony headunit + other small programs that can run on a PC too..

Have a look here, follow the link. http://www.eriksen.no, you will find what Sony didn't want you to find...

PS. Sony does have a unit that allows yout to enable the AUX input, can't remember what it is called though..

TommyE

The site which is linked from erikson.no (http://www.cus.org.uk/~cleggy/) is a really good resource for the Sony UniLink protocol. They they emulated the Sony device to allow AUX in's on a Sony headunit and this is GPL at sourceforge.
The theory behind controlling a Sony CD Changers from a computer is there. They know the commands it just needs more work.
PIC chip interface between EMPEG serial port and UniLink changer. Hardware sorted.
Now can the EMPEG kernel be hacked to send the button press commands through the serial port as ACSII ?
Thats how people are controlling the MP3 playing with the Sony steering wheel sticks isnt it? Yeah, thats reversing it, but is it possible?

Cheers

Dave
-- Anticipating empeg fun...

Yeah, this could have been cool.

Put the Empeg into AUX mode, then have the Empeg output certain ASCII characters on the serial port, the serial port could then have a PIC to UniLink decoder and then one could controll a Sony MD/CD changer.

Or/And

I have been wondering how a slot loading CDROM drive would behave in a car when it comes to road shocks??
One could plug one of those drives into the car (I have a Chevrolet Astro and the original CD player is a 5 1/4 inch so there is space) then have a serial to IDE MMC command interface to control the CDROM thru the IDE connector. Don't know if this is doable. Maybe MLord have some thoughts, beeing a IDE driver writer??!

TommyE

A friend of mine has a single CD player attached to his head unit that it controls as if it were a CD changer. That would allow us to have an in-dash CD player attached to the empeg without worrying about shocks, assuming that we could get CD changer stuff to work. Let me see if I can find the product.

Edit: I found the Kenwood KDC-D301 and the Pioneer CDS-P4000.

Well I have a CD player like that too, It is the original GeneralMotors player.
Standard PC 5 1/4 inch with some mounting rail attached to it, the CD player is
controlled by the original GM head unit. (Which I've ripped out.)
I did some probing with my scope, enough to realize that the traffic on the GM
bus was 2 ways. -> gave up on it. (I was hoping that I could just power the CD drive up, put a CD in it, and it would play, but no. It needs the GM headunit.)

TommyE

There are several "standards" currently, but about three of them cover most of the OE units. Next year there will be a universal standard bus for ICE components - MOST Bus. It will allow all sorts of clever interactions between devices.

Rob

Whoa... Heaps of activity here :)

I noticed some confusion in the posts, so I thought I'd clarify and respond a bit.

Time, you say: "Well, fundmentally, it is a cost issue. " and "The other element is that due to the competitive nature of branding". My point is, if cost is a factor, then surely simply using lineout rather than going via a weird tuner modulator is cheaper and therefore less hassle than the way everyone does it. Also, If no-one wants to allow cross-compatibility, then why do they all produce units with modulators that are specifically for other brands?

Tony: Good points, and thanks for the heads up on the interconnectivity products. I agree broadly with your view of "who wants CD anyhow?", but there are a lot of times when you just want to be able to throw a CD in. OF course, I could always just rip the CD on my laptop and dump it onto my Riocar on the spot, but it is easier to be able to just throw the CD in. I do a lot of work mastering CDs and stuff for local bands, and it is handy to be able to meet them and just throw in the CD, and any they have on them they want to show you.


Everyone else: Great ideas and stuff. Never really meant that the changer should be controllable from the Riocar/Empeg, but that could actually be quite cool.


All I really meant was:

Anyone know how to get one of those changers with an external controller to provide straight line level output via a pair of RCAs, which could be plugged into the Aux channel of the Riocar?

I just figured that maybe three of the pins of some proprietary standard would equate to left, right and earth or something, and could thus be easily adapted to line level plugs. Then, slap the external controller in the dash next to Mr Empeg, and hey presto - CD for the odd occasion you need it.

:)

To add a more common scenario to whay we might want a CD player: I hate going to the store and buying a new CD only to have to wait to get back home to rip it and transfer it before I can listen to it. Also when a friend wants you to listen to a CD. That hate is easily outweighed by the rest of the features of the empeg, but it does annoy me when it happens. I'll probably just get a cheap portable cd player and a cheap FM transmitter for this sort of thing, once I get a job.

Anyone know how to get one of those changers with an external controller to provide straight line level output via a pair of RCAs, which could be plugged into the Aux channel of the Riocar?

Sorry, didn't have a reply earlier...

SONY make at least one model of CD changer with RCA line-out connections and a WIRED remote with LCD. You can use this with any head unit (including the empeg) that supports line-in. The wired remote head is pretty thin and easily mounted on your dash, armrest, etc. A friend has one in his minivan and I just remembered about it today (mainly because I was just in the vehicle 5 minutes ago :)

Bruno

Goughchr: I agree broadly with your view of "who wants CD anyhow?", but there are a lot of times when you just want to be able to throw a CD in.

WFaulk: I hate going to the store and buying a new CD only to have to wait to get back home to rip it and transfer it before I can listen to it.

Right. Which is why I said that you should just get a cheap portable CD player and connect it to the empeg's Aux-In connector. That is the perfect solution to these situations, and the empeg was designed for this very thing to work.

You don't know the model number or anything do you?

The sony guys here don't know anything about anything, and thats not a feature listed anywhere in the catalogues.

Perhaps you can't get them here.

Duno.

Anyhow, if you could let me know the model number of at least the one you know of htat does it, it would make for a great starting point....

Cheers - you may have found my dream CD changer :)

It looks like the Sony CDX-1000RF has RCA outs as well as an FM transmitter. Crutchfield has it. (Except it's not it stock.) Edit: I saw this before, but didn't mention it because you have to dig into the info to find that it has RCA preamp outs. Except that it says it right there on the front without using the term RCA. Oh well. Sorry. Could have told you about it yesterday if my brain was working straight.

I hate going to the store and buying a new CD only to have to wait to get back home to rip it and transfer it before I can listen to it. Also when a friend wants you to listen to a CD.

Bingo.. This was the main reason I hesitated so long before buying an empeg. AND the reason why I went with a Neo first....because I didn't have two DIN slots in my car. I managed to solve the DIN issue (I've put my headunit somewhere else, but still in the dash), so now I have the best of both worlds. The empeg is connected through the Aux-in of my headunit.
And, even better, when I drive to work (which is only 4k's away), I don't even put the empeg in - it's not worth the hassle. But doing so I still have music in my car, be it from CD or from the radio. Actually, this has another advantage : when the empeg is not in the car it looks like the radio has been ripped out already (the headunit is not that viewable if you don't know where to look), so this is also great anti-teft wise.
Also, my headunit is used for driving my two amps + sub. Something that the Empeg is not built to do (in software)

Subject: Re: CD changer
Cheers man :)

Don't know of any actuall CD changers with line level output though? My old headunit has preamp-out as well, so if there are no actual changers around, then I will just use that.

Although I guess that Sony one has a remote thingy, so I *can* hide it away in the glovebox. The whole point of a CD changer is that my Mister 2 doesnt have a lot of dash space anyhow, and I already have a couple of other computers mounted in the dash (three seperate VFDs now...). Another DIN unit just aint gonna fit (see the pictures to see what I mean).

Hence CD changer, rather than "standard" head unit.

Thanks though :)

Sorry. I got lost in the thread and forgot exactly what you were looking for. I know what you mean about the MR2, but at least it has the Double-DIN to start with. A friend of mine has one so I've seen it. He won't let me drive it, though, the bastard.

Okay, looking on Crutchfield yields only the following item:

Sony DVX-100 CD/DVD changer.

It's $1000US, though. But if you already have a video screen, maybe this is for you. Actually, it looks like a lot of the Sony Xplod line of changers have RCA outs. That is, assuming you can stand to have a product with such a stupid name in your car.

Edit: Looks like the ones labelled RF CD have wired remotes, and have both FM and RCA outs.

Yeah, it *did* have a double DIN, but like I said, I kinda used up my whole dash with some extra stuff. For some reason the attachment didn't work, so I posted the piccies HERE

(thats http://www.savantis.co.nz/dash/index.html if my HTML doesnt work....)

LOL!

Just noticed the piccies didn't upload properly... just reposted them and they do now :)

What are those screens for??


TommyE

The bottom one is engine management - lets you tune the air/fuel ratios, fuel curve, etc. Also lets you display any engine related variables in any format - textually, as analogue guauges, real time graphs, etc. You can set it to monitor up to four things on screen at once, overlaying the graphs, etc.

The top one is the same, but exclusively for the turbo. So it has stuff like boost pressure, speed, etc.

They look way cooler than in those pics, but I dont have a digital camera, so I have to make do with what other people do for me ;) Please excuse the mess the car is in, as well - I hadn't cleaned it in weeks :(

Cool, what type is it? (The engine managment system)

TommyE

The engine management is an Apex (Or Apexi, depending on where you are) S-AFC.

The boost controller is an Apx(i) AVC-R.

They are both awesome, and have shown really impressive performance gains without affecting drivability.

I strongly recommend them to anyone interested in performance or simply cool looking stuff :)