Can we get the C source code to the empeg unit? I'm not talking pre-comiled .o files. (I found those) I want .c or .cpp...

Since it's not being sold anymore, can we have it... Pleaaaase!

From the FAQ (which I just happen to be re-reading at http://RioCar.org):

In reply to:

---

Since the empeg team will continue to create new products for Sonic|blue and other OEM partners, the car player will likely be the initial testbed for some of the new software technologies being developed. For example, one possibility is that voice recognition technology might be initially tested as an upgrade for the Rio Car player. Although that's uncertain at this time, it would depend on if it gets included in an upcoming product or not.

This need for future development precludes the possibility of the current player software becoming open-sourced. That will most likely remain closed-source, because much of its code is being rolled into future products. This investment of intellectual property must be protected.

---

Yes, I read that too, but I was hoping the stance would change now that it's no longer being sold.

What are we going to do? Build a competing product using no-longer manufactured hardware? SonicBlue sells hardware, not software. For whatever reason, they are canceling this fine product - and whatever reason that is is probably big enough to keep others from entering it.

I myself aren't happy with a *possibility* of continued modifications. Why would they spend money developing features on a market that won't produce any more revenue for them? I mean it's nice of them to do so, but I don't think it's a good idea to rely on them at this point. No offense to the engineers, but to the businessmen who have ulimate say and who are only looking out for profits.

I just prefer having my fate inmy own hands, whenever possible.

I got along a bit further in the FAQ and found this:

In reply to:

---

The player's Linux kernel is heavily modified from the original Linux kernel, and this modified source code is made available.

The Linux Emptool utility is open-source.

The tool which uploads data to the player's flash RAM (for things such as custom kernels or logo images) is open-source.

The specifications for the hardware and all input/output connections are freely available.

The actual player software and the Emplode utility are proprietary, and their source code is not made available to the public. However, there is enough available information for someone to develop their own player software if they were willing to expend the time and energy required.

---

The player software (or something very similar to it) is being used in the new Rio Advanced Digital Audio Center http://www.sonicblue.com/audio/rio/rio_audiocenter.asp

Man, we should be able to plug our empegs into that thing (like a docking station) and to auto-magic syncups.

/me wonders if we can use the ethernet or USB connection to do that...

There was some talk of that.... there was a huge thread about it. I would love that feature too. There is no way to do it "now" but maybe soon enough. It would be the only way I would consider buying one (hint hint). Buying one also gets you a free Rio Receiver. Pretty cool. I just wish it had NTSC output...

"I just wish it had NTSC output..."

You and me too, then it would be a real home entertainment unit. I think their out of touch with reality, confining it to such a little display.

Now if we could hack a Tivo to do that..... hmmmm..

The answer is no. The player source code is heavily used in other products (e.g. the Rio Receiver, or the HSX-109). These are still shipping.

It's also being used in several internal demo products, some of which we're hoping will reach production. These are the OEM deals that we're actively pursuing.

The player software is what (to my mind) differentiates the car player from every other MP3 player available. It'll differentiate the OEM stuff from every other MP3 player available. We'll continue to use it for future home products. It'll differentiate them from every other MP3 player as well.

We're not about to hand it to our competitors -- if they want it, they'll have to license it.

This is why we're not planning to open-source the car player software ever.

(Disclaimer: This post represents only my personal opinion. Comments on the presence/absence of future projects/products should not be taken as gospel, YMMV, etc., etc.).

Kind of on a side-note, today I was looking at the mp3 car player comparison that has been link to a few times here. I was trying to see what options there were out there for anyone who missed out on the empeg and it hit me that no matter how fancy anyone's hardware was (and it wasn't! ) no one could compete with the empeg/RioCar once you have to start managing 100's of songs! So I would disagree with the statement that SonicBlue is only a hardware seller.

Why not just put SAMBA (www.samba.org) on the empeg and this thingy? Then then you have transparent remote filesystems... At least for copying purposes. I'm not sure if the empeg's databse would need modification though.

Man, we should be able to plug our empegs into that thing (like a docking station) and to auto-magic syncups.

If you're referring to the HSX-109, yes, that is the plan. Right now it will only squirt tunes into Rio portable players, but it is planned that a future release of the software will allow it to synch with the Rio Car as well.

/me wonders if we can use the ethernet or USB connection to do that...

It will be USB. The HSX-109 has a few USB ports and an HPNA port, but no ethernet port.

It will connect to an ethernet network via a $30.00 USB-to-ethernet adapter box, but I don't think direct synching with the Rio Car would use that interface. Then again, maybe it might, I dunno. The feature hasn't been written yet, we'll have to see.

Well then I'm glad that th empeg people did such a rocking good job to start with!! It's nothing short of "pheromonal" -- the software is a big attraction, aside from MP3s. This is why the PhatBox sucks IMHO.

I just wanted to play with the code anyway. Not like I had any feature requests...

But if you DID have any feature requests, you'd be surprised how many of the topics posts in the "Wish List" forum make thier way to the player/emplode software. (Still waiting for crossfading on Random play however )

True. But my main concern is that development might stop along with the product line. Maybe not right now or this year, but eventually.

It's just a concern. It may be irrational though.

Another good factor in this is that the empeg guys have units themselves, as long as they consider the features worthwile they could always implement them in their copious spare time... Of course, when they have the MkXXII (licensed to some OEM or car manufacturer) their interest in the lowely MkI and MkII(a) might slacken...

I still feel that even without another new line of code, the player(s) is worth the money that I've spent on it... used MkI while in queue for MkII, MkIIa at the original price...

/Michael

I even feel that the MkXXII will be mainly based on the Mki's code. Didn't Hugo do some estimate in the number of "man-years" (not man-hours) that had gone into the software? I doubt they would ever want to start from scratch again. Hell, look at how well the Mki is supported!