I have searched for a few hours here, ditto across the 'net. I understand how newbie questions can be, and I have one...

I have a 60 Gig Rio Car on order right now. I currently have a Sony CDX-M770 ES in my dash, all by itself. At the moment I'm using the aux input quite successfully with an Archos Jukebox 20 player. When I get my Empeg here, I'm planning on running that into the Sony unit's aux-in instead. So that's the basic setup. And yes, I want to keep the CD player. I like several features on it, it is already integrated into the rest of my system, and I still want to play CD's on my way home from the store, etc.

I'd *like* to control the Empeg directly with the Sony CD player. I've been looking at the remote commander and how I could adapt it to the Empeg, but I don't have a good spot for that remote, and at that point I'd just use the Empeg's buttons to begin with. That's not the route I want.

When I say "control the Empeg directly with the Sony", I mean control it just as though it were a Sony branded CD changer. I don't need it to relay any track / time / etc, info to the Sony, but I would like to use the existing head unit to control MP3 playback - start, stop, skip, run through the directories, etc.

I can't for the life of me seem to get a direction on how this could be done. If anyone can point me to a few websites, give a few keywords to search for, or any help about what they did to accomplish something like this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Here is an idea of my current setup - won't affect this matter much, but if you're interested... http://www.sallee.org/greg/Eclipse/Eclipse.htm (Warning - the pictures are very big and will bog a dialup connection).

Nice car. I have a '92 eclipse and a Sony Deck (M610). There really is no way you can easily controll your empeg with your cd deck. The only way I can think of is if you made a IP-Bus controller that could either interface with the serialport of the empeg or send out an IR. So far I hear its close to impossible. Im sure it would be possible, but with so much work that it wouldn't be worth it. Seach google.com for project with sony's IP-Bus also called Unilink. (I had to use this: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NtJQV5BBht3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=158XA300&s=0to even be able to use my sony's aux in) I've seen 2 or so (not many more) projects of people trying to do this, none of the one's I saw where anywhere near completions though and probobly had been givenup upon.

-Greg

Thanks -

I am guessing whatever I used would essentially decode the commands from the CD player and then configure them to go intothe serial port of the Empeg itself. Sounds simple, right? I'm an electronics guy compared to most people, but this is over my head (for the moment - hehe).

My particular CD deck has normal aux inputs, I don't need anything funky to connect other devices into them, so that's a relief. The Empeg should be plug and play, anything else with RCA jacks has been.

But the control part - the details of what gets decoded and / or converted is my confusion right now. Like I said, I don't even know where to begin.

This one is in the FAQ.

I did read through it. I don't care about a 99 track limitation, I won't use it that way. If I did, I'd just run through the Empeg itself.

I also saw that the team has made such controllers before. If so, any hints as to what went on?

The FAQ pretty much says "don't bother". I understand that opinion. It just isn't very "me" of me. I know it can be done, just giving a shot to see if I can figure out how. I won't go beyond this thread to try, but still want to try, know what I mean?

If you can figure out what to sony send out as far as signals your could use a PIC stamp to send the signal to the serial. The empeg reads signals from the serial, they are listed here: http://www.hulkster.net/empeg/prog.php3. Actaully now that I think about it, it doesn't seem too dificult. Still way beyond the time and effort I myself would put into it.

-Greg

I don't care about a 99 track limitation, I won't use it that way.

My point in writing that wasn't to say "if you wired the empeg up that way it would be limited to 99 tracks", because there's no way to wire it up that way. The empeg doesn't work on a CD/TRACK system at all and doesn't have any provision for doing it that way.

On the other hand, your head unit's CD changer interface totally revolves around the CD/TRACK system and is inexorably hard wired to do only that. So in order to control the empeg like a CD changer, you would have to invent some kind of a complex translation layer between the head unit and the empeg. Such a translation layer would have to be a clever combination of hardware and firmware, whose only job would be to dumb everything down so that the empeg was little more than a glorified CD changer. This would essentially negate all of the cool features of the empeg. So if you're going to go to that much trouble and expense, why not just buy an MP3 changer product which was designed to work that way from the beginning.

It just isn't very "me" of me. I know it can be done, just giving a shot to see if I can figure out how.

Well, if you really think you can pull it off, go for it. If you can get pictures, schematics, and documentation, we'll write it up and publish it. Because it would be one HELL of a hack.

I also saw that the team has made such controllers before. If so, any hints as to what went on?

Yes, they built an "MP3 Changer" product for an OEM. It was a completely different product from the Rio Car although it shared some similar software and hardware bits. It never saw the light of day, as far as I know.

It's probably easier to control the Sony with the empeg, the other way around. Why don't you do that if you're going to go through the trouble.

Calvin

Thanks Tony - that was a lot more info than I got from the FAQ. Ugh, I won't give up yet, but I have a little better idea of what's involved.

And as far as running them the other way - no... My Sony deck folds up with just a flat shiny face on it, I was thinking about pulling the butttons off the Empeg and making a new flat faceplate on it too, turning it into just a slave MP3 changer with a display. Then, running the whole business with the Sony remote (via the Sony). Yeah I know a lot of you will think I shouldn't use the Empeg that way - but it's mine and that's what I want to do! I may switch it some day, It won't be any permanent modifications, and nothing will get broken. I've been looking for an in-dash CD changer for a long time now, and the Empeg will serve that function beautifully, as an MP3 player instead. Same thing to me, just a little less convenient up front (burning CD collection) and more convenient later (not swapping CD's). Now, I just want it to cosmetically match everything else. Thus, the idea for the smooth plate on it, and the inherent need to control it somehow else - such as with the Sony deck.

Thanks for the information everyone.

There is a potential other way to do this, if your player comes with the tuner module.

The RioCar tuner module supports the Sony Wired Remote for controlling the RioCar via the wired remote. this would obviously be of use to you in your case if you removed all the buttons off the front of the Rio and just had a flat plate for the display. [I assume you would keep the display visible right?].

You could then mount the Sony stalk controller on your steering column out of the way of the other controls and visually not intrusive and then when the Sony head unit is in Aux [Rio Car] mode, you can use the Stalk controller to navigate tracks, menus, etc on the RioCar as required.
I know you can do this with the remote also but the Stalk interface is much more intuitive and due the different sized and shaped buttons you can do all the operations by feel and don't need to take your eyes off the road.

Maybe this isn't as nice as the integrated solution but you could do this in half a day versus half a month or more for the other alternative.
[and don't forget to factor in the time it takes for a trip to the Car audio shop to buy a new Sony head unit when your interfacing experiements accidentally fry something in the head unit - more than one person interfacing the Sony IP bus has had this experience].

Yeah I know a lot of you will think I shouldn't use the Empeg that way - but it's mine and that's what I want to do!

No problem with that!

But I'll betcha that after you've had a few days to play with the empeg and understand some of its true capabilities, you'll change your mind. It will take you months, years even, to understand and appreciate them all. I've had mine for a year and a half now, and I doubt if I know how to utilize even half of its capabilities.

The empeg is sort of like trying to explain color to a blind man -- until you've actually experienced it, there just isn't any way to "get it". It really, truly will change the way you listen to music, and when the epiphany hits, you'll see there is no going back. Why do you think so many people on this bbs are multiple empeg owners?

tanstaafl.

I think what's happening to you is the standard "I don't want to give up my existing CD stereo" resistance to the idea of owning an empeg. It's one of the reasons this player was hard to market. Some people just aren't ready to give up CDs yet. It is this market segment that they made the PhatNoise for.

If I understand this thread correctly, you haven't actually gotten one in your hands yet. As Doug said, wait until you've gotten it and played with it on your desk for a while. Once you've messed with it for a few days, you'll completely forget everything you said here, and you'll wonder why you ever thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a CD changer. You'll see the advantages of having it be your main (perhaps only) head-unit.

Ask anyone here who's used the player for any length of time, especially anyone who's previously owned any other in-car MP3 product. It doesn't matter if they came from a PhatNoise, or a portable-plugged-into-the-stereo rig, or even if they came up with their own trunk-mounted PC. Everyone will say the same thing: The empeg is fanstastic, and it works best the way that it was intended: Up front, in your dash, as your main stereo. Nothing else compares.

The best thing you could do is start ripping CDs now and when you get the empeg take the sony out stick it in the cupboard. Put the empeg in the car with your favorite 50 or so cds and then run with it for a week or do and see how much you miss you cd unit.

When i first got mine a cd walkman was wired through from the glove box for running cds. Total usage so far once to see if it worked.

The quality of the control system on the emeg is miles better than anything else.

After a week or two if you still aren't sold one the way it works then go down your road.

I think I would just keep the jukebox you allready have got, leave the IP bus (cd-changer-bus) connected to that, and the RCA (I think sony use RCA?) from the jukebox to aux-in on the RioCar/Empeg, and then RCA out from the RioCar/Empeg to RCA/cdchanger in on the Head unit. This way you would get music from the empeg played through the main unit, and you could use the jukebox with the empeg in "aux" mode.

You would not be able to "remote control" the 'RioCar/empeg from the Sony headunit though.

Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)

If you make a plain front for the empeg/RioCar, you could still use the supplied Infrared remote for anything you need. (Or a steering-wheel mounted IR remote)

Marius (Escort Cab + MArk II)

Hello there.

Check these links out. The GNUnilink project is coming along nicely.
Not exactly usable from the Empeg (just yet), but a start.

http://www.cus.org.uk/~cleggy/

and

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnunilink/


TommyE

Wow! Now I know why my friend was so ecstatic about this message board! It makes a toy SO much more fun to own when you have a great group to back it up.

It looks like I may be glad I ordered a 60 Gig unit after all. Right now it's a real pinch on the wallet, I'm wishing the 10 Gigs were still available. I have had a feeling that it may become my main unit, not just an accessory, sometime down the road. But it looks like you're all telling me that will happen sooner rather than later. I am going to go with that idea right now - receive it, install it, and use it. I'll get back to this a few weeks from now and see if I haven't changed my mind.

Thanks again -
Greg

definatly a damn fine plan

Aha! I will wait as promised before experimenting, but I have an idea. “Learning Remote”. You take your new remote controller, set it to “learn” mode, and tell it which button you are programming. Next you take your old remote, point it next to the new one, and press which button you want to teach it to mimic. I know these exist, I helped my parents program one for their TV this way.

One of these would let me combine some Sony functions with some Empeg functions down into one discrete controller piece. I could then leave my Sony faceplate flipped up, and implement my smooth Empeg cover, for a very clean layout in the dash. As far as what to do with the remote, there are a lot of options. I’ve seen several ways of turning a remote control into an embedded piece in the center console or even wiring it to some steering wheel buttons.

Doesn’t sound too difficult either, the only hard part is installing the remote into some part of the car in an aesthetically pleasing manner. And that I can handle.

You don't even need a learning remote for that. There is a kernel hack (so-called HiJack by Mark Lord - see Programming section) which enables any IR remote that emits according to a certain protocol so that hardware sees it (I don't remembet which, but Kenwood and Pioneer stick to it) to act as empeg remote. Key-to-command mapping is as simple as writing few entries in a file on empeg. You can even write macros. I am sure there's an entry on that in FAQ.