Ok, Just got my RioCar player , and I am trying to decide the best way to wire it up. I have this amp, which is a 5 channel amp. It allows you to run only one set of line level inputs, and then the internal crossover allows you to distribute the signal to all channels. The amp has three sets of inputs (F+R+Sub), but the RioCar only has two output. On my existing stereo, I never use fade (front to rear balance). So is it worth it to run the fron and rear line level outs? What I was hoping (but I doubt), that I could hook the rear outputs up to the sub input, and control that with a seperate volume setting. But I suspect that I would only be able to use the fade then to control the sub. So should I just run the one set? I bought an amp wiring kit, and it comes with one pair of RCA's, so I would have to buy another pair if I run the F+R. I should also mention that the amp will go in the trunk, so it is a long run.

This is a completely new system, I am ripping the entire factory system out, speakers and all. So I am already going to have everything ripped up.

Thanks!

In the past, I opted to use the money that would have gone to additional interconnects for a one high-quality pair of interconnects, to help with noise introduction, etc.

I've never gained anything by having the extra fader control that couldn't be adjusted and fixed at the amplifier (gain, etc).

I say don't bother. Before you put everything back together though, have your interconnects run down to the amp in the path they will take permanently then listen to the alternator noise with the engine running at various speeds.

If you get noise, you can either re-route, or if that's impossible (no alternate paths) I'd spend some money on a single set of good interconnects, then run that new cable through ... your noise should go away.

Greg

What I was hoping ... that I could hook the rear outputs up to the sub input, ... But I suspect that I would only be able to use the fade then to control the sub

That is correct -- but what is wrong with that? That is a great way to go, otherwise you have to crawl around in your trunk or under your seat or wherever it is you have your amp in order to change the sub output relative to the rest of the system. I'd do it.

tanstaafl.

I run a Jensen four-channel amp for my fronts and rears, and I also have a single bridged subwoofer running off of another Jensen amp. So I've essentially got the same amplification setup that you do (albeit with more power and done with two amps instead of one).

At first I opted to do it this way:

Empeg Fronts->4ch Amp Fronts
Empeg Rears->4ch Amp Rears
4ch Amp Rear Pass Through->Subwoofer

This meant that I could control the front/rear fading from the empeg, and the subwoofer level would simply be part of the rear speaker level.

This worked, but I realized that I was never adjusting the fader at all, I always left it in the center. I had a certain setting where I preferred the front/rear ratio that was kind of critical to get the soundstaging the way I wanted it. I had that front/rear setting dialed in pretty well using the amp's gain controls and was satisfied.

On the other hand, I did want to adjust the subwoofer separately from the rest of the speakers, and I couldn't do it with that setup. Subwoofer adjustments meant opening the trunk.

So I re-wired it to this scheme:

Empeg Fronts->4ch Amp Fronts
4ch Amp Front Pass Through->4ch Amp Rears
Empeg Rears->Subwoofer

This means I can't control the front-rear fading, but the fader is now my subwoofer level control. Also, miraculously, this new routing scheme helped cure a ground loop problem I was having, although that's totally unrelated to the discussion here.

Either one of those two methods is valid for you. Note that if your amp doesn't have pass-through plugs, a simple pair of Y-adapters will do the trick. You could also simply "daisy-chain" a single pair of outputs from the empeg into all sets of amplifier inputs, and the fader will do absolutely nothing. This is fine, too, if you're willing to set all of your relative speakers levels with the amp gain controls.

Based on your statement, the Empeg Fronts should go to the 4 channel amp's REAR input. The ouput of the amp going to the Front inputs of itself.

You mentioned that the subwoofer level would simply be part of the rear speaker level... meaning that the Output line was driven from the Rear inputs on the 4 channel amp and not the Front.

Or, did I read that wrong?

I think you're confused because you don't know what a PASS THROUGH is. I re-read my post and it's all correct, as long as you know what a pass through is.

A pass through is an extra set of plugs on the amplifier that acts just like a Y-adapter cable. The only significant difference between a pass-through and a Y-adapter is that the pass through cables look a lot cleaner because they're on the body of the amplifier instead of dangling loose.

So essentially, I'm just doing a Y-adapter so that the empeg fronts feed all of the channels on my 4-channel amp. Then the empeg rears go solely into the sub woofer's amp.

Technically, I don't really know how a pass through works, only conceptually and with no supporting evidence.
It's this line that sticks out in my mind

This meant that I could control the front/rear fading from the empeg, and the subwoofer level would simply be part of the rear speaker level.

This sounds like the Output line is passing through the signal from the Rear inputs. The signal coming from the empeg should be plugged in to the Rear input, then the Output line connected to the Front input.

If the amp was ANDing or RMSing or whatever, the inputs on both the Front and Back input of the amp, wouldn't you have a loop when you connect the output back into the Front Channel?

Please help me see this clearly.

The amp's not doing any anding or anything. A pass through connector is an exact copy of what went into it.

I'll draw a picture and put it in the FAQ.

Okay then, the Output signal doesn't get it's signal from both inputs because it would have to do something to the signal or else you would have constructive/destructive wave interference.

In my reading of your first post, you suggest that the Output line gets its signal from the Back input.
You then describe, in your new method, hooking up output from the empeg to the Front input on the amp which according to your previous statement isn't copied to the Output line. Hence, when the Back input is connected to the Output, no signal would be supplied.

Where does my error lie, in the first point or the second? I don't think it's visualization of the scenario.

Well, yeah, but a "Pass through" should really be a Line In, a unitary gain level buffer, and a Line Out. That's if it's a halfway decent design.

A "Y" split puts the impedances of the two devices you are connecting in parallel, which can lead to gain and stability problems on amplifiers, for example.

If installers try selling you a "Y" splitter cable, shoot first and ask for your money back later - you should always look for a buffered Line In - Out of some sort for the best results, isolation and stability. Caliber and Pioneer both do buffered isolation transformers with multiple line outputs for example.

I'm completely lost by what you're saying. Let me see if I can explain it another way.

I'm only talking about line-level RCA connections. You can connect an RCA output cable to more than one RCA input with a Y adapter, and there will be no problem with the signal.

So what I'm doing is sending the empeg's FRONT outputs to TWO sets of channels. In effect making my four main speakers all come from the front outputs. My empeg's REAR outputs go straight to the subwoofer amplifer.

Beyond that, the only way I can explain it is to draw a picture.

I never had a problem Y-splitting line level outputs as long as I only did it once.

I'm thinking this is boiling down to sentence composition. I just didn't want the person asking the question to be confused.

Make sure you connect the signal coming from the empeg to the correct set of inputs that are being passed through by the amplifier. In the case of your Jensen amp, the Back set.

Would you agree to that? Or, is their some concept I'm failing to grasp?

It makes sense to me. The front outputs on the RioCar power the front and rear speakers, and the rear outputs on the RioCar power the sub. You can get less sub and more main speakers, or more sub and less main speakers by using the fader. Thanks for all of your help.

I had a feeling we we're oversimplifying for discussion but thanks for the better explanation!
I assumed using the amp would be better than a splitter, just didn't know why.

Ok, now I have a new question. I had just purchased all the equipment for a new car system (including a new HU), and then I about wet myself when I saw the new pricing for the RioCar. I had been lusting for it for quite some time, but the cost was prohibitive. Anyway, my point is that I have a head unit that I was going to install in the car. It is a Nakamichi cd-40z. The main reason I bought it was that it has line level inputs. I was planning on running my nomad jukebox to it. It also has Three sets up outputs (F+R+sub). I would rather have the cleaner look of only one unit, but having a tuner would be nice. The cd playing capabilities I don't care too much about.

Finally to my question. Do most prefer to run the RioCar to another HU, or use the RioCar standalone. Those of you who have possibly tried both ways, what are you happiest with? Ergonomic wise? Feature wise?

Personally, I'd ditch the Nomad.
Install the Nakamichi if you have a double din size dash opening. It's convenient being able to play CDs and you can use its radio if you don't have a tuner module.

Just pump the Nakamichi into the empeg and set all your EQ/balance/fader settings to 0 so you can use the empeg's eq.

I could see arguments for pumping the empeg into the Nakamichi since it has 3 sets of outputs but that's a personal decision.
I guess the question really is to run 2 or 3 sets of RCAs...

Do most prefer to run the RioCar to another HU, or use the RioCar standalone. Those of you who have possibly tried both ways, what are you happiest with? Ergonomic wise? Feature wise?

Either way will work. There are extensive discussions in the FAQ about how to hook it up either way.

For me, I look at it this way: Those who have CD players in addition to the Rio Car, usually say that the CD player gathers dust. So why bother even having one taking up space and looking ugly in the dash?

The Rio Car also has that 20-band parametric equalizer that I'm so fond of, so I have no trouble with it being my only head unit.

I bought the Rio Car specifically because I never wanted to carry another CD with me ever again, so having a CD player too would be a waste to me.