You're right. It's shorthand. AFAIK the term péage is mostly used for the tollbooths itself or the way to the tollbooths.

Also, it's true, the french have a way of "describing" what they mean, rather than having an exact term for it. Which doesn't simplify road-sign reading I'm afraid.

Put it this way, I usually go over the France/Belgium border at about 100mph... there's just a sign saying "Welcome to France" on the side of the motorway. Very underwhelming.

Bah...if it would read "Welcome to France, the land of the Eiffel tower, champagne, wine, brie, baguettes, lavender and tollways. Enjoy your stay in our beautiful country! " it would, apart from being a HUGE sign, be very difficult to read at the speed you're passing it!

BTW, a small but maybe useful fact : the french police's radar's are triggered from 150 km/h and up.

Suis je le seul Français sur ce BBS ?

Vous êtes le seul Français je me souviens de.

Quelqu'un? Quelqu'un?

Désolé! Je ne puis pas penser à personne aussi! Je pense qu'il est vraiment unique!

Which doesn't simplify road-sign reading I'm afraid.

Lest we deter Tony or anyone else from running out and buying those plane tickets, I would say that I find driving around Europe pretty easy for a furriner with near-zero command of any language other than English (and even that's a stretch). For one, there's all of the mostly standardized symbolic and even Anglicized signage (Stop signs that say "Stop", even). Also, I find that the way roudabouts get used make it easy to get where you're going in places like France -- "Centre Ville" or "Autres Directiones", take your pick! If I can keep focused on the "Do Not Enter" and "One Way" stuff, the rest is easy.

For the French fries , you can find many Fries sellers along the road and on beaches in the North of France like Le TOUQUET ....

Ooooh, Le Touquet... I had a fantastic seafood platter there recently in a quayside fish restaurant called Aux Pêcheurs d'Etaples (which I think has sister restaurants in Boulogne and, for some reason, Lille).

Peter

I'm afraid I can't say what's good about Holland 'cos every time I visit Amsterdam I seem to come back not remembering anything that I've been doing all weekend... I think Coffee was involved somehow... Oh and shops!

10) Short distances to Berlin, Copenhagen, Brussels, Paris (all just a couple of hours by car)

Berlin in a couple of hours! What have you got under the bonnet of the mini??

From looking at the geography of things, it looks like we could be able to see England, the Netherlands, Germany, and perhaps even Austria if we spent a week driving around. Does this sound realistic?

Well you could SEE that many countries, but in just a week you're not going to find out much about any of them!

I suppose you only really need to visit the Wrestlers for the England part though.

Rob

Hmm, maybe two weeks, then.

Tony,

don't forget Switzerland!

Hmm, maybe two weeks, then.

Some randon questions/thoughts:

Will it be just the two of you? (didn't know if any children involved in which case trains become a bit harder). If just the two of you are you hardy enough to take a night train or two? If so, you might cover more ground (albeit with higher degree of difficulty!) while saving a few hotel bills.

I think 1 week would be a stretch, at least to Austria. Do you know where you want to go in Germany? Two weeks definitely more doable if you can swing it.

Raileurope has some mixed train/car rental packages that you might be able to use. If you anticipate car only, take a look at Hertz and other web sites. You can get a quote for how much rentals are based on expected pickup/dropoff locations. It seems like there is little penalty for dropping off in a different city *within* countries, but that can change if you drop in a different country. All that data might help determine where you fly in and out of -- you might get lucky and find a cheap open-jaws flight, like arrive into London and depart from Frankfurt; less backtracking.

Either of you prone to carsickness when in the passenger seat? If so, stay off the squiggly roads if you cross into Switzerland!

It would be the family, the three of us.

One child doesn't seem like a showstopper when it comes to train travel (heck I've seen families travel with lots more), but parenthood seems like it gives you all that other child-related stuff to herc around through train stations.

Interested to see how it turns out. Go for the 2 weeks!

Rachel is old enough to travel light if necessary.

Germany is always worth the way, really! And while beer in the Netherlands is really great - we DO have better beer brands here
Any idea what parts you plan to visit? Where's your wife from, may I ask?

Bye,
Frank

Actually, she's not from Germany. She has German ancestry, so we wouldn't be going to see anything specific.

I'm not certain what I would prefer to see. There is one side of the coin that says tourist-traps are bad and do not represent what the place is really like. But on the other hand, tourist-traps will tend to have multilingual signs, etc., which would make it easier for us as Jenny only has some spotty recollection of her high-school German language classes.

I'd say just don't sweat the language thing, especially in the countries you are talking about. Lots of English speakers, esp in the hospitality industry.

It's a bit more challenging in southern Europe and in small towns, but you can usually communicate somehow. If necessary, I bring a cheat sheet with key phrases such as "I am allergic to shellfish!" and "Do you have any epinephrine?" Yes, I wind up feeling like a bit of an idiot sometimes, but if I only got to go places where I *didn't* look like an idiot, they wouldn't let me leave the house!

Me and my family went one summer for three weeks and then back again the next smmer for another three weeks...
(the first year was pretty much the last year that they still had all border stops, got a ton of cool stamps in my passport, none the second year )
I still want to go again to see everything.
When we went, we only went to small towns because we wanted to see the culture. A good book to get is call (I think) Europe Through the Backdoor. Had great advice on places to see and go and how to get around.
No one in our party spoke any native languages but we had a couple of pocket translation books and I think that we noticed that when the local people even in small towns, saw us trying to speak their language and not being dirty Americans, they were very helpful and would look for words they didn't know in our book and show us what they were trying to say. Make sure you get the translation books that have from English to another, and the other way too. I think that the reason for people here saying bad things about people being rude or what not is because the EXPECT people in other contries to speak English, and think they are rude when they don't.
I'll never forget my time there, absolutely amazing, nothing like it in America.

I think that the reason for people here saying bad things about people being rude or what not is because the EXPECT people in other contries to speak English, and think they are rude when they don't.

Agreed 100 percent, and I've cringed more than once as I watched that happen. But if you make any sort of reasonable effort to communicate, I think people are pretty forgiving of awkward attempts and will work hard to find a way to communicate back and help you.

I like cities for sure but agree re: small towns are the best part

I got interested: Any particular "small towns" in Germany perhaps?

@tfabris: Tony, if you like to come over, I would be happy to meet you for a beer and show you some parts of Germany... unfortunately Frankfurt me be TOO far away for your roundtrip...

Nice to read your impressions, folks!

Bye,
Frank

I got interested: Any particular "small towns" in Germany perhaps?

In 1975, compliments of the government, I got to spend a year in Germany -- worked at a small hospital in Bad Kreuznach (southwest of Mainz/Frankfurt) and then a larger one in Landstuhl. Few of us had cars, so we survived on trains and hitchhiking. We managed to get around...Nuremburg, Heidelberg, Munich and 2 weeks in Gamisch-Partenkirchen skiing under the aegis of someting called "adventure training" (intended to keep us all from becoming heroin addicts!). We got to Amsterdam and Paris, too, and that July I spent about 3 weeks hitchhiking from Landstuhl to Aberdeen and back (I have never been the recipient of such hospitality as on that trip.)

I liked that corner of Germany. The hospital was on a plateau that was very woodsy with windy roads and little villages. A bunch of us used to go running and we would take a rest break at a very small stand of (very tall!) redwood trees that someone had transplanted from California in the 1800s (apparenty the plateau had its own, unique, redwood-friendly weather system or so we were told).

I'll also say that I liked the food better the further south I went. Things seemed lighter and more buttery (I know, a contradiction) in southern Germany. No damphnudlen (sp??) up north, and more wurst, less schnitzel.

My job sent me to Berlin in the mid-80s, so I got to walk through Checkpoint Charlie (verrry spooky) before the wall came down. I was actually back in Frankfurt for 2 weeks last year for work and took the train out to Bingen and rode the ICE down the Rhine from Trier.

If Tony and/or others make the trek, it is, IMO, the best time. Late May and June can have excellent weather without the holiday crowds. You can drive up to a gasthaus or pension at 5PM and usually get a room without booking ahead.

yeah...went first in July, too much holiday people
second year late May and early June (when all the city workers were getting ready for holiday people) was definitely the best

How old is she?

I'm actually inclined to advise you to not try to be too ambitious with travel plans, especially if you are driving and she is quite young: there's nothing worse than being cooped up in a car for hours while Mum and Dad just ogle. Why not consider just spending one or two weeks driving around The Netherlands, going into the Ardennes, and then over into Germany and back?

This way you have a relaxed holiday and you can stretch your legs, and actually enjoy a bit of the local culture too. Don't forget, you can always visit again if you like it...

Français peut-être, mais francophone je pense pas!
T'es de où en Champagne?