I've been doing some thinking regarding the "Insert, Append, Replace" feature...

I think "Replace" should replace the tracks currently remaining in the playlist, but not stop the current track from playing, as it does currently. This would allow for a complete redo of the playlist, without stopping the current track. (This would also make "Replace" actually do something different than just hitting the play arrow)

Another thing I would like, would be some way to insert a track or playlist randomly into the current playlist. That is, it would shuffle them in, rather than sticking them in the front or at the end. This could be either a new menu item, or perhaps a setting that makes "Insert" behave that way if shuffle is currently on.

And last but not least, I think the player needs an "Undo" feature. I have had several passengers get rather upset, after spending 15 minutes or so making a long, elaborate, completely custom playlist, only to accidentally hit play, instead of holding down the button long enough to get the "Insert, Append, Replace" menu. All I ask, is some way to undo this action.

Good ideas. But I'd prefer they be seperate from the three we now have. The shuffle-in idea could logically be called "shuffle" or "mix." But what happens when you're not listening in shuffle mode? Then how does it work? Maybe just put the selected items between other lists (so it would keep whole lists together). The replace is a little trickier. Because what you're describing isnt really a replace if it's not going to replace the current track.

What happens when you're only doing one track at a time? How can "replace" be considered "replace" if it's just going to end up appending? We might have to start thinking up new words, like "requeue." It looks like we'll already have "enqueue" coming soon.

Bruno

"Shuffle" or "Mix" sound fine to me. What does happen if shuffle isn't on though... Hmmm... I never turn it off, so I never even thought about that. Maybe it adds the tracks in, and then shuffles everything? Not sure.

What happens when you're only doing one track at a time?

Well, when you think about it, how is it different than having more than one track? They both work the same. The only difference, is that there is nothing "Queued up" that will actually get "Replaced". So, maybe it is just a matter of semantics.

The reason I asked for this feature, is because I often change my mind about what I want to hear next, but I almost never want to stop a track while it's playing.

Also, with the player the way it is right now, "Replace" does exactly the same thing as hitting play, so why use it at all? I'm trying to actually make that feature useful.

Make sense?

Well, I've put A LOT of thought into this and I think this could be the full spec. I don't think there is any other enhancement to this feature that could be accounted for. If you've got one, I'll bet it's a good one.

The following ten actions should simply replace the current "Append", "Insert" and "Replace" menu invoked by a long press.

• APPEND - Takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, keeps it in order, then and adds it to the end of the running songlist.
• APPEND SHUFFLED - Takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, shuffles it, then adds it to the end of the running songlist.
• INSERT - Takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, keeps it in order, then inserts it into the running songlist, right after the song this is currently playing.
• INSERT SHUFFLED - Takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, shuffles it, then inserts into the running songlist right after the song this is currently playing.
• MIX IN - Takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, keeps it in order and mixes it into the remainder of the running songlist, sequentially.
• MIX IN SHUFFLED - Takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, shuffles it, then mixes it into the remainder of the running songlist.
• PLAY - Wipes the running songlist (stopping the current song), takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, keeps it in order, then plays it.
• PLAY SHUFFLED - Wipes the running songlist (stopping the current song), takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, shuffles it, then plays it.
• QUEUE - Removes everything left in the queue, leaves the current song playing, takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, keeps it in order, then adds it to the end of the running songlist.
• QUEUE SHUFFLED - Removes everything left in the queue, leaves the current song playing, takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, shuffles it, then adds it to the end of the running songlist.

** In all cases, wether you are in "shuffle mode" or not, does not matter.

Furthermore, there should be an eleventh option "Set Default Action" that would invoke another menu containing the ten above defined behaviors. By selecting one of those there, the user would define which action is used by the standard "short press" of a song or playlist.

Lastly, there should be an undo, not just an undo that undoes the last thing you did to the running songlist, but an undo that keeps going and going and going so that you could undo the last 30 things (or the last 100 things) done to the songlist. This one might be a stretch, but some sort of undo is important.

I also wish that I had even an iota of the programming skill to make any of this happen.
Tony? Mark? Mike? Mr. Lovejoy? Anyone?

I second all of that suggestion.

The "Set Default Action" could be done as a long-press of the appropriate action - that would perform the action and make it the default.

Other than that, I can't suggest any improvement at all. Empeg guys, any chance of this for post-2.0 (we can be alpha testers for whether this would work on the HSX-109...)?

Well, that's all fine and dandy, but you've completely missed the whole point I was making about "Replace".

IT'S THE SAME AS HITTING PLAY

So, I ask again, Why use it?

"Replace" will only be worth using if it leaves the current track playing.

Think of it as replacing the tracks "In the queue" rather than replacing the entire playlist. Maybe that will make more sense.

So, I ask again, Why use it?

Because it's generally a good idea to give the user more than one way to accomplish the same thing.

It's like right-clicking on something in Windows and finding that the default (bold) item on the menu is the same action as would have happened if you'd double-clicked on the item.

In dcosta's world, hitting down wouldn't necessarily be the same as Replace - the default is changeable.

(It would be a good idea if the default action appeared somewhere, like the bottom of the display, as I'm sure I'll keep forgetting which mode I'm in).

I'm glad it's there, just in case I do a longpress and did not mean to.

it's generally a good idea to give the user more than one way to accomplish the same thing

Agreed. dcosta's idea about changeing the default action would also be a good reason to leave it in there. OK, I see your points on that.

But, what about the option to replace the tracks currently in the queue, without stopping the current track? Does that really sound like a bad idea? Am I the only one that thinks this would be a usefull option?

Maybe this isn't a replacement for "Replace", and is in fact an entirely new option. Or, maybe the current "Replace" should be renamed to "Play"? I don't know.

I knew you guys would come up with some more functionality. Here's the addendum:

• QUEUE - Removes everything left in the queue, leaves the current song playing, takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, keeps it in order, then adds it to the end of the running songlist.
• QUEUE SHUFFLED - Removes everything left in the queue, leaves the current song playing, takes whatever you select from the Playlists menu, shuffles it, then adds it to the end of the running songlist.

Additionally, "Replace" should be renamed "Play" editing above spec, now.

Awesome.

That would definitely work for me!

Your definitions for QUEUE are completely wrong. Sorry to be so blunt, but you have far too much overlap in your selections.

Queue, by its definition should never wipe anything. To "append" is to queue.

Bruno

I'm sorry that you put a lot of effort into coming up with the list. So far everything you describe is accounted for by what Diznario wrote plus the one new insert that has been previously discussed.

The modification of "shuffle" items is new, but not very condusive to a balanced interface. It would create too many options that would rarely be used. It is best to keep "shuffle" to a MODE of playback. The "Mix" item we discussed in the begining of the thread would handle the shuffled case. Everything else can be handeled with the existing options plus the new insert that will be implemented (find the other threads).

You only need the following options to cover everything:

Insert, Enqueue, Append, Mix, Replace

By definition, replace should stop your current track and switch out to the new selection. Same as selecting to "play" with the short press.

Being able to redefine the short press (default) would be a very nice new addition.

Bruno

None of those ten options corresponds to the current "Insert" behaviour (probably to be renamed "Enqueue").

• ENQUEUE - Insert the results after the current track, unless there are already ENQUEUEd tracks after the current track, in which case insert it after those. Don't remove any tracks.

This is what you usually want, if you're listening to the whole player on shuffle, but want to hear songs X, Y, and Z "now". You search for X and enqueue it, then search for Y and enqueue it, then search for Z and enqueue it. Thus you hear, once the current song has finished, X, Y, and Z in that order, and then are returned to your scheduled programming.

Peter

I didn't know that the current INSERT feature did this, but yes, my proposed insert would work just like this; Whereby subsequent inserts would be inserted right after previous ones.

This raises an interesting point about INSERT SHUFFLED, though.

If you selected x and use INSERT SHUFFLED, it would be shuffled, then inserted.
But on subsequent selection of y,
is y shuffled then inserted after the shuffled list of x or
is y shuffled with the previously INSERT SHUFFLED contents of x

?

good one.

want to hear songs X, Y, and Z "now". You search for X and enqueue it, then search for Y and enqueue it, then search for Z and enqueue it. Thus you hear, once the current song has finished, X, Y, and Z in that order

[soapbox]
Yes, that is what it does now, and I hate it! Well, hate is maybe too strong a word, but I have always maintained that insert should always insert immediately after the current event. If it doesn't do that, it is not inserting; it is queuing and shouldn't be called insert.
[/soapbox]

Thus in your example, if you inserted X, Y, and Z in the manner you describe, the playlist would become: Current song, then Z, then Y, then X. (If you wanted them to play X, Y, Z, you would insert them in reverse order).

Of course, this whole business IMHO is not important enough to get upset about...

tanstaafl.

That's why Peter said the current "insert" will be renamed to "Enqueue." And then we'll get a PROPER "Insert" that does exactly what the name suggests (and you described). Yes, this has always been a peeve of mine too.

And as I said in one of my previous messages in here... With the addition of a "Mix" item we could cover *ALL* the examples given by Dcosta above. And that's one of the things this thread was started to ask for. Which I think is pretty cool.

Bruno

Any takers on tackling ths one, yet ?
C'mon... You know you want to do it.
Unless... You're chicken.... bwak bwak bwak bwak...
There must be someone here who's got the stones to make this one happen....
We've got a separate 5-band graphic equalizer for each speaker in the car for cryin' out loud.
If we need cryin' out loud to make this one a reality, here it is :
"Pleeeeaaaase, someone make this happen, boo hoo hoo, I want this feature badly."

So I crack easy, so what?