Notice the new engine . What can I say Im a Honda fan.
http://www.suninternational-usa.com/pr_els01.html

Today is the official "lower the collective IQ of this BBS day". See Off Topic swearing discussion.

Here is my empeg mounting unit:

<--Attachment

Today is the official "lower the collective IQ of this BBS day"

Reminds me of bicycle racing... I have always maintained that the total aggregate IQ of any Juniors pack (racers 11-17 years old) is exactly 100. One rider by himself is just fine. Put four of them in a group and their IQs will drop to 25 apiece. God help us if we ever get a dozen of them racing at once!

tanstaafl.

VTEC is overrated, and my first experience with it was when I bought my S2000 i April 2000. Yeah it is impressive, but nothing to rant about(positively)..

I personally enjoy an equally quick/fast acceleration from a vehicle with gobs of torque.

The S2000 thank goodness has a lot more to offer than its bizarre engine..

btw, I sold my Stook an dnow have a 98 Maxima SE 5 speed, which is my mounting unit..

Hehe, I said mount...

-John M

Driving an engine with redlines that high is for certain people only. True VTEC isnt what all those stupid high schoolers think it is. Its just a way to have high end power without a gutted midrange awesome technology, but its not turbo people.

err am I missing something or can someone please explain what is meant by "Like the fist time you beat off"?

Yes, well, with a brilliantly running player and no major revisions on the new horizon, the IQ of the group goes down.

Ha! Good catch! That is some kid from Chicago I think...

Doesn't VTEC also allow power AND gas mileage?

Crass humor does not necessarily equaly low intelligence..

I know a lot of crude and offensive dudes who could teach you all about Quantum Mechanics(and know what they are talking about).. If you understand that stuff chances are your IQ is a little above average..

-John M

Actually there are a few type's of VTEC. Most cars have VTEC for gas mileage and a little better power this version comes on civics, accords, pretty much any SOHC engine thats VTEC. Then you have VTEC-E not to be confused with i-VTEC, this can be found on the civic HX it basically keeps an intake valve closed at all times during lower RPMs to create a swirl effect in the chamber allowing the engine to run lean (lean means more power but more heat). Then you have the "real VTEC" this can be found on Integra's, Preludes, NSXs, and Civic Si's. These engines use VTEC primarily for performance purposes. These engine are DOHC engines. This form of VTEC allows decent low end torque and screaming upper RPM power, by allow valve overlap once the secondary cab lobes are activated.

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Then you have VTEC-E, this can be found on the civic HX ...

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Felt the need to point out that it can also be found in the Insight where it basically gives you 70mpg on the highway.

Armin

Anyone who thinks that a Performance Car or a Sports Car has ever come from the Japanese Mfg's (except for the NSX) is a moron. Acura never intended the Integra to be a hot rod, it, and cars like it, have just gathered a cult following by the people who don't know what real perfomance feels like. The US and Europe are the only places that TRUE Perfomance comes from.

I hope you are joking.

Hot Rods do NOT equal Performance cars unless going in a straight line fast and not being able to stop quickly is considered "Performance" for you.

And if you look at todays, not the sixtys, sports cars coming out of the US and Europe, they go fast beyond a straight line and can stop to. If you want proof of what america can do, look at the dodge SRT-10, a truck mind you that will eat most Japanese cars alive running 0-60 in 5 a 1/4 in 12.89 I beleive it pulls .89g can do 59mph through the slalom and can still do 0-100-0 in 18.1 and this is a full size truck not some little sports car.

America may have used to been behind the times, but it doesnt take them long to catch up.

I was using "Hot Rod" as a generic term for a performance car. A performance car to me, does it "ALL". However, many of the followers of the Japanese "performance" cars treat them much like the "hot rods" of the '50's, '60's and '70's by running them in a straight line.

I'm not talking about Honda Civics with 6" exhaust tips here. Now before we get too far, besides the exotics, please explain what you mean by European sports car - just so I know we are talking about the same thing. Because I can't find an example of any American sports car that is similar to a European sports car. The Asian cars are far more similar in their approach to cars than US automakers. To me, that sounds more like a bias based on geographic data more than anything else.

Why don't any US automakers make any AWD cars? Explain to my why a 1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX with $500 spent on it can blowaway a Viper at the strip?

The new Vette and the Viper are the only nice "big block" US cars out there, but comparing them to cars that cost 1/4 of the price is silly. But what is funnier are the Mustangs (riding on a chasis from 1979 or earlier if you count the Fairmont) and F-Body's. But I don't even knock those cars. They are just a differant approach to performance (an antiquated one at that). But for anyone to say that there are no Japanese sports cars is misinformed at best.

Look up spec's on the Subaru WRX STi or the Mitusbishi Lancer EVO-VII.

This is all coming from a person who works for GM and grew up in the birthplace of Ford (and worked there for 3 years.)

The only reason they do that is because imports are what the muscle cars used to be. Meaning they are family type cars with nice engines plopped in that you can buy cheap and modify. The only place you can race it legally and cheaply in most areas is at the strip.

"imports are what the muscle cars used to be. Meaning they are family type cars with nice engines plopped in that you can buy cheap and modify."

Ok, but there are still plenty of late '60's and early '70's muscle cars around that you can buy cheap and modify. For the most part, ending up with something that would eat up most imports with the same $$$ invested. Besides, The current Mustang and Camaro are still viable "hot rods" that are affordable for the same people who can afford an Integra. IMO, the kids who are driving imports and think they are fast (straight line) are kidding themselves.

OK, I don't mean to toot my own horn (or my car's rather! ), but I know more specs about my car than other imports. I am very much a "Ford" guy but didn't use my discount (or my GM discount) to buy a car because there was simply nothing offered by a US maker. BUT, how can my WRX which can get a 5.6 second 0-60 STOCK (albiet with some abuse to the clutch) be considered not fast? And I have AWD so I can have fun in the rain and snow? Why are Brit's illegally importing Japanese spec versions of this car?

We are not comparing 60's and 70's technology to new cars. Those cars STILL can't do much besides go in a straight line. No matter how much I love a Mustang GT350, it will slide off the road while I stick (even in the rain) while getting 30mpg, with adjustable seats, AC, power everything and a full warranty (for under $25K). I can take my car to work everyday (compared to my co-worker who owns a beautiful 71 Camaro but needs to get a ride to work most of the time because it wont start).

But again, I am not knocking "hot rods". I think they are a classic approach to performance. They have their place (nothing can do the same to me as the roar of a good V8). But really, the Japanese cars are more potent that you think. They are JUST starting to trickle into the US (the EVO7 is coming soon and the Holden is coming soon too - as a Pontaic GTO!).

I want to know where you saw an eclipse with 500 dollars spent on it blow away a viper? and who was driving this viper an ape? Unless they put a triple shot of nitrous on that eclipse I beleive there is something wrong with this picture.

Basically by saying American and European, Im just stating the origins of were many performance cars are built. until recently all asian cars were never meant for any type of performance, just economy. Yes there are starting to build them. But calling anything with only 200 horsepower a true sports car is just funny to me.

Check your records because anything asian that has anything performance about it does not cost 1/4 of what a corvette costs.I have never seen a Subaru WRX STi or a Mitusbishi Lancer EVO-VII for 10 grand, or I think if they were that good for that price, the streets would be flooded with them. Sure you can get on older civic or camry maybe for that, and then you can be pulling 15s in the quarter with a few mods .

Im not really saying American cars are better than japanese. All Im saying is that there is a lot BS saying what can beat what on the streets, look at facts. sure you can buy a japanese car cheaper and make it a quick little car,. But you can do the same thing to a mustang (yes I know they suck when there stock) and make it a quick little car that can handle like hell with the right tires and suspension. and personally I like the sound of a V8 over a screaming weed eater any day of the week.

5.6 is respectable, and quick, but not fast, a mustang or a camaro can do 5.2 bone stock. and I dont really consider them fast, my transam I used to own would do it in 4.6 and I know a few times I got out raced, but it was never by an import.

Yeah, show me an eciplse that can keep up with a viper. Sure if you put nitro and a turbo (which costs a lot more than $500) on it, it might keep up, but you could just as easily put the nitro and turbo on the viper. What do eclipses run the 1/4 mile stock? Maybe a 16? All these import hot rods I see driving around town are not fast. I race one every chance I get and have never lost in my v6 Maxima. Then I get out of my Maxima and drive my friend's '71 Ford Torino with a 302 and I see how painfully slow my maxima is.

[EDIT: I have another friend with a stick shift Civic SI with a vtec, and it's no match for the Torino.]

Brad, go to a dealership and test drive a Corvette, or at least a Mustang GT or a Camaro. And then see if you feel the same way.

Yeah, my slowest vehicle is a '01 Chevy Crew Cab 4x4 with the Duramax. It's tweaked a bit and now runs in the high 14's, and I'll lay the spank down on any import I get the chance to.

you put enough nitrous into anything, and it will run, but probably only once. I remember an article about a few guys from Auburn pumping 150 hp shot of nitrous into a rental neon and getting it to run like a 12.5 in the quarter, but the blew just about every seal on the engine, not to mention probably warping the heads and bending the rods.

If you are interested in what a turbo charged viper can do, go to
http://www.motortrend.com/june01/ttviper/ttviper_f.html
try 0-60, 2.4

Corvettes are wonderful, but over $50,000 and I've driven an Eaton Supercharged Mustang Cobra. The thing was balls fast and made my teeth shake but was all over the f'ing road. Even with the owner back in the driver seat, it wasn't much better. Also, there is no way I can justify spending that much money on a sub-average built car with 80's interior styleing to it. I drove a Camaro 2 weeks ago, it was only a V6, so I didn't judge it's speed, but I could see about 15 degree up and down and barely more side to side. That is why GM is getting rid of these things and Ford is finally re-doing the Mustang (2004).

I agree on the Nitrus thing - I don't think it is a good approach to working on cars (any cars).

Why are US companies just NOW getting into forced induction? Ford is finally coming out with the Terminator or whatever it is called that has the Lightning's supercharged engine in it.

Unitil now, the US already had an advantage in # of cylinders, why would they need forced induction? They are only now starting to do it to get their "edge" back.

US is just now using smaller engines pulling horsepower, cause we are just now making the cars lighter, hp does not move mass, torque does, and where as with turbos you can pull 300hp out of a V6, you cant get the torques, so its has always been more displacement, bigger the engine, more torque.

and just one comment about american cars being scary, it is because of torque that you feel out of control, but torque is power and control is just an illusion. More power, the scarier the ride is goin to get.

Imagine this, I used to race Dirt Track, southern modified, 2000lb cars, 500hp riding on extremely slick dirt that almost mud 25 people on a 1/4mile long oval track where over half the time you are sideways and within 2 ft of each other, the scariest experience of my life every time I was out there, but the most fun I have ever had.

Alright an eclipse GSX is AWD and turbo. Costs about a 3rd of the Viper and with 500 bucks you can upgrade the internals and dial up the boost. I think you are forgetting about the s2000 it is a sports car that thing handles extremely well. And I know most Integras arent sports cars but drive a Type-R and then ask yourself if it isnt at least a tad sporty. I mean hell it beats Mustang GTs at the strip and well thats not even what it was designed for. The new Corvette Z06 is an awesome car and so is the Viper but they just arent my bag baby.

Having gone down both roads I would have to say that this really is a matter of personal preference. Whats better whats worse. Whats the best 'deal'. It's soley up to the individual. I owned a 300hp Miata. It was blown and squeezed.(supercharged and nitrous). It was quick, fast, and handled very well. It was also very high strung and very small. My hobby car is now a Dodge Dart GT. It has a fairly well built 318 (Mean318) that produces about 310 hp. Its not as quick or as fast nor does it handle as well, OK it doesn't handle at all. But I actually like it better than the Miata, I mean, Miatas are common, this is not. It's a piece of American history and that appeals to me. My point is that there will always be one thats faster, cooler, quicker, cheaper, whateverer than what you own. The only thing that matters is what works for you, within your budget. [Stepping off soap box]

Or... you can play the game the way I do, with my SHO-equipped Taurus station wagon. No, it's not the fastest car on the block, but it comes close. For sure it will surprise the hell out of anybody that takes it at face value.

I paid $1495 for the car, and it is (IMHO) the ultimate sleeper.

tanstaafl.

I think he's pushing it a little, but the point is clear. You can bu used an Eclipse GSX for $2500. Then put in $5000 of upgrades. Then you'll have your 12 second dragster. Why buy a GSX used? Because they're only available used. You can lay down some serious hurt for just $7500 out of pocket.

Calvin

They come with a turbo...

eclipse quarter mile records

Calvin

fixed link

Thats eclipse is very impressive, but If you think he only spent 5000 modding it, your crazy.

In the engine bay, the car features a completely "built" race motor, with Crower rods and forged pistons, a custom sheet metal intake and exhaust manifold, and a high-flow turbo. On the dyno, with a 100-shot of nitrous, the car made 667 HP to the wheels.

After all this, its making your point moot. I know there is no way he is getting good gas mileage out of this car, and Im sure its not a daily driver.

As for the time he pulled, yes its is very good but if you put that much work into almost any car, it will pull times close if not better. I have seen mustangs, camaros, even freaking neons that will do that.

My point as I stated earlier I never said there was an inferior or superior car, my point, these days you can mod anything to be that fast, and the car depends on the driver and their driving style, me I like raw horsepower, its very obvious that yall like turbo charged power curves.

nothing wrong with either, it is just tastes.

Hell, If I could have my pick of cars, I would take a Viper and a RX-7. But both are impractical because I cant afford a viper and I cant afford what I would like to do to a RX-7. Actually I would have a less expensive american sports car, if that was practical at all. But being a College Student, I need the truck I have.

Hey if you really wanna go fast without spending too much money, get a motorcycle. That's what I'm doing. Then I'm gonna save up for an old chevelle or an old mustang.

What eclipse are you talking about? Ones that in the 8s, 9s and 10s are beyond modified, cost no object. The ones that are in the low 12s are modified on the cheap and easy. These will beat stock vipers easily. That's the point of the argument that you're missing.

Calvin

If you want to die get a motorcycle.

No, I only said that an eclipse with $500 dollars worth of mods would not beat a viper. I never said it couldnt be done, Hell Im sure that even some of the ones that hit low 10s high nines still had less in them that what I Viper costs and I never argued that...

Vipers are expensive, So are Ferraris, I have seen many cars that have been juiced up for less money that will smoke them. But If I had that much money I would still own the Viper, personally because I love the feel of raw unrelentless horsepower, so much that when you fire it up the whole car rocks with torque, anyone who has been behind the wheel of a V8 with more than 350 hp knows what Im talking about.

any car can go fast if done right, its all preference and how it fits your driving style.

True, it is all personal taste. I don't think either of us are knocking any particular type of "approach" to cars. But we are defending some Japanese or European approaches. Personally, I'm a car guy. I think everything from Mini's to dumptrucks are cool. While raw power is fun (and scarey fast!) a refinded handleing machine with modern features like powered mirrors is nice too. That's why they sell cars like the SVT Contour or the Mustang SVE. They won't knock your socks off at the strip, but they will put a smile on your face on a twisty road course.

The funnest cars that I've driven in were both V8's. A replica AC Cobra and a 328 GTS Ferarri. The Ferarri was actually slow, but damn did that thing turn!

BTW: $500 in mods to an Eclipse will get you far. Since it is turbo, all you really have to do is bump the boost up. Some Eclipses are AWD too, so while the RWD V8 is spinning its tires, the Eclipse actually launches. In the 1/4 mile, an AWD turbo'd 4cyl can win against these V8 monsters because anyone can add power - but adding grip is a whole other story. Yet, once that 1/4 mile is over, the V8 is hot on its tail because the V8 has "longer legs" and the Eclipse will soon be in the dust.

I will completely agree, because as much as I love vipers, if they are boosted up any little bit they are hard to keep traction, if you look up, I know on the last two Hennesey Vipers (the original 650, and the 800). Both whitesmoked the tires in the quarter without ever getting traction. The 800 (which was the twin turbocharged version) ran 0-60 in 2.4 smoking the tires, and they finally got it to pull a 9.99 in the 1/4 smoking the tires alll the way down the track. which I would love to watch, I dont think they would let me drive, I could only Imagine what it would do if it could hold tires.

But Like I said I really dont want to have anything to drive around that would have to have racing slicks just to catch ground. I would really like to see and AWD viper, but that would make some real weight distribution problems...

I guess I will have to design my own when I graduate, anyone know anybody in the Automotive industry thats hiring a design engineer?

$500 bucks of mods won't put you in viper category. I agree with you there. I think between you and SE_Sport_Driver making sweeping comments about imports being able or not able to do whatever, you're both kind of pushing grand statements one way or the other.

Calvin

I never said that $500 would put you in Viper territory... I just wanted to point out that on most cars $500 will only get you a chip or part of an exhaust. But on the DSM's it gets you more because the turbos are de-tuned from the factory so they can afford to warranty them.

Personally, I like burning rubber. Maybe not at the dragstrip, but on the street, yes.

You have to be the epitome of moron. What does burning rubber on the streets do? First off its illegal. Second its a waste of tires. Third it shows your lack of maturity. Forth it just attracts the attention of police from the job they should be doing. Fifth its plain annoying. Sixth Im sure you dont own a car that can do it but rather large clouds of white smoke can be a hazard I have seen accidents occur. Do you even own and car? Sorry but your little comment just pissed me off. Burning rubber on the track is something you cant help and Ill tell you this the people who are doing would give anything to keep those tires from doing it. I guess youll have fun doing your stupid e-brake burnouts but just know you look like a fu[c]king moron when you are doing it.

Damn, you've got one fuck of a complex going on there.

Yeah I hate stupid punks. How old are you, 16 maybe?. Do you even have 4 wheel and a motor to mount your empeg in? No your father's riding lawnmower doesnt count.

Oooooh, Big Man is 17 now. Now you get to pick on all the 16 yr old punks! Too bad you're a little girl and you have to talk shit to people on the internet so your self-esteem doesn't drop into the danger zone.

Thats right Im talking [censored] to you, but Im doing it to boost my self esteem. I havent been 17 in a while now so Im not sure where that came from. Anyway Im not gonna further this argument. And since you failed to address your age or means of transportation I will rest my case and Im sure I have supporters. Peas

Remember, everyone... Don't feed the Trolls!

I think this post summarizes his age (and maturity).

http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=empeg_general&Number=76978&page=&view=&sb=&o=

highway to the
DANGER ZONE

*laugh*

you _must_ find me this link. Sounds amusing as all hell

Kinda off topic but not. I just went to Wendy's for some food and I decided to borrow my roommates 99 Saturn SL1 (base model) its a 5 speed. Anyway on my way to Wendy's I end up at a stop light next to a v6 Mustang. When the light turns green he guns it and I was like what the hell so I dumped the clutch and took off. Too my surprise I gained and finally over took the mustang. Now I can tell when someone is racing and when someone isnt. That v6 was making a hell lot of noise. Im sure it was a auto but still cmon now its a mustang.

It has been my experience that a lot of people who have fast cars these days have absolutely no idea how to drive them. I mean, I don't know how you could fail to drive a Porsche 911 (or 959 or whatever it is these days) fast, but I've easily beat numerous ones from stop lights in my stock '87 BMW 325e. And they were obviously trying to race.

On a legal point, I do this a lot, but when I get to the speed limit (or at least how fast I'd be driving on that road under normal conditions) I stop accelerating. Not quite as illegal as totally racing, plus, I think, it makes the other guy even more pissed off that you've obviously stopped trying and they can no longer beat you.

How can you not drive an automatic? I mean its not like you can bog the engine or just sit there and spin?

Ummmm. What?

I didn't mention whether I drove a manual or automatic. And your second sentence is nearly unparsable.

I was refering to the mustang as Im fairly certain it was an automatic. And the second sentence should make sense. When you are launching a car if you let off on the clutch too quick without giving sufficient gas your engine will bog down and if you let out on the clutch to fast with too much gas you will smoke the tires.

Here you go, squirrel. I hope it helps.

You're getting better already. Nice work!

Why dont you go outside and play hide and go fuc[k] yourself?

Not very funny, but I'll give you some points for originality.

BTW, not That I don't do it too, but rapid acceleration is considered "reckless operation of a motor vehicle." It sucks, but you can still get busted for it, no matter what the posted limit is.

Although I hesitate to further this rather asinine discussion, I’d like to believe the behavior displayed in the above posts is not representative of many 19-year-olds, if not even atypical of an on-the-whole mature group of people. I happen to personally know many such individuals.

As original-price riocar purchaser and a long-time empeg lurker since newsletter 12 (late ‘99, I think), I’d question the idea that mildly increased software development offsets the ill effects of the price slashing on the community as a whole. Up until recently, I’d at least skimmed every post in the general, technical, programming, and (now) the off-topic forums, plus many of the interesting thread from before I started reading this board. Now I really just can’t handle the volume shear noise. Ah well. At least my favorite toy is still getting better.

John

Geez, I can't believe how badly you guys are slamming Yz33d for commenting on burning rubber. How incredibly silly. It seems to me, on the matter of maturity, that it might be defined as the ability to step back and respond rationally and intelligently to situations or events that are found unpleasant or you don't agree with. The use of profanity to describe ones feelings or to define the actions you wish to convey certainly does descibe a persons intellectual and social state. I do believe there is a time and place for profanity, this isn't it.

I think it had nothing to do with burning rubber. It had more to do with the likely possibility that he has never burned rubber and wasn't contributing anything. Call it the straw that broke someone's patience....

Burning rubber is fun, but it doesn't mean "fast" and is often a sign of waste of power. Any human would get an instant grin when driving a car so powerful that it "floats" sideways when the tires lose their grip.

I thinks that just pure American for you, anyone can get a rush out of car that can melt the tires, even some one who knows that is doesnt mean true speed, it actually means loss of speed.

Wanting outlandish amounts of power, I believe is just the old american way.
Where else in the world do you find burnout contests? not drag races or anything else just burnouts, where people see who can melt their tires to the rims the fastest. moronic, but fun to watch.

So let me get this straight. For this statement:

"Personally, I like burning rubber. Maybe not at the dragstrip, but on the street, yes."

This is true:
1) "it had nothing to do with burning rubber"
2) "It had more to do with the likely possibility that he has never burned rubber"
3) "wasn't contributing anything"

And because of that I should be flamed, ridiculed, and put down. I think it's all pretty childish.

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not drag races or anything else just burnouts, where people see who can melt their tires to the rims the fastest. moronic, but fun to watch.

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I would like to state that I find this offensive to Morons. I am a moron and most morons do not believe in melting their tires to the rims. Riding up on people's lawns and taking out garden gnomes is another story.....

I remember the days of lawn gnome stealing/killing/running over/decapitating man those were the days.

Never taken out any garden knomes, but I have removed most of the grass from a yard and placed it on the front of their house.

Kind of Ironic because the whole reason I did it, was because I got blamed three weeks earlier for leaving ruts in one of my teachers yard, so I figured I might as well have something to be blamed for.

ah.... high school... where being a idiot was legal

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And because of that I should be flamed, ridiculed, and put down. I think it's all pretty childish.

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It's not really childish, and I'm not going to join in the flame war here. Most of us read all the posts and I think most of us have noticed you'v been posting a lot of things that well... really piss people off. Perhaps before you post something think to yourself "will this piss anybody off?" I know you might be inclined to say "who cares what people think... I post what I want", well everbody here for the most part cares what everyone else thinks. It's called consideration.... try excercising it, you'll find that the people here are pretty damn cool, even if they think a little differently. I'm not posting this specifically about this particular issue, just a lot of your posts recently have had very negative responses.

This forum is great for information, laughs and intelligent conversations.... it's no place for a big dick contest.

Cool - I'm glad someone thinks the Elise is the perfect mounting kit. Not got the Honda engine in mine just a supercharged Rover-K.
Think it's the other way round, the Empeg is perfect for the Elise as it doesn't jump with the Elises super-hard suspension and you don't have to find somewhere to find the CD changer.

Have you ever witnessed a 4 wheel burnout?

Calvin

Did you know regardless of speed limit, at least here in California, you can get ticketted for show of speed? If you screach the tires you can get ticketted for that, reckless driving, etc. If you're stoplight racing, even if well under the speed limit you can get seriously nailed. Of course, if you're in a stock 1987 BMW it's less of a attention grabber...

Calvin

It is like that pretty much anywhere, you just have to be smart about it. We had one spot we used to ge race on a nicely paved backroad, until it started getting busted because of all the people that would be out there. It also depends on the cops too, I know cops that will just laugh if you bark your tires and I know some that will pull you over and if you mouth off take you straight to jail for it

That's why I said ``less illegal''....

But I never spin my wheels intentionally. Why would I want to? It'd just make me go slower.

And if you're sitting at a stop light, it's easy to see whether there are any cops around.

Have you ever witnessed a 4 wheel burnout?

Does it count if it was in the snow?

What does the term sports car mean in the US? I just can't imagine how somebody could say that Japan has never produced a sports car.

Datsun 240Z
Mazda MX-5 (Miata), RX-7 RX-3, etc etc
Subaru SVX (more of a luxury tourer i guess)
Toyota MR2, Supra
Honda CRX, S2000
Mitisubishi (hmm can't think of any here, perhaps the lancer 1600GSR... not really a true sports car thou)

What was the Holden that was coming to the US? Was it the monaro? BTW australia != Asia. Holden is closer to a US automaker than a Asian automaker, given that it is owned by GM. Guess you were just categorising it as an import. But then European cars are imports too.

Mitsubishi - does a Lancer EVO count?
Subaru - WRX?
Nissan - Skyline GTR, 300ZX?

And yes I think they are looking very closely at the Monaro for the US.

Well i don't count a Lancer EVO or a WRX as a true sports car, because at heart they are standard mass-market sedan, most of the performance addons are done well after the car design is complete.
I'd call them performance sedans... yet somehow they feel to me, closer to a sports car, than say an HSV Clubsport.

Compare them to a Lotus Elise, Vaxhaul VX-220, Mazda MX-5..., and you'll see the differences, Every aspect of the car, from the moment of conception, was designed as a sports car. You don't have to be a small, opentop, 2 seater to be a sports car thou.

In reply to:

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Have you ever witnessed a 4 wheel burnout?

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No. Have you?

I have friend that got ticketed for drag racing at a stoplight. It would have cost over $700 and I think maybe a license suspension, but his dad's lawyer-girlfriend got it fixed down to an inspection violation.

All wheel drive is definitely more fun for launches and burnouts than rear wheel drive. If you can, try to get into a hopped up Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX doing a proper launch on a drag strip. Your body feels like an impact zone for a meteor. :-) It's hard to describe, like a large fist pummeling into your body. I've been in a Camaro SS launch, and it's very soft and gentle comparatively. :-)

Try it, you'll change your mind about import cars after that.

Calvin

To me, a sports car has to have 2 doors, no roof, manual gearbox, good looks and can be raced if you felt like it.

Calvin

Try it, you'll change your mind about import cars after that.

You should try living in a country where *every* car is an import. Then you tend to get less people who think <insert country of origin> is the only place that makes real cars.

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You should try living in a country where *every* car is an import. Then you tend to get less people who think <insert country of origin> is the only place that makes real cars.

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Well, most of the people I meet here in the states who are car people don't beleive in american cars. You'll get the odd corvette fan, but that's about it. Your results may varry if you were in Detroit instead of California, however.

Now, just to add more fuel to the fire by making rash generalizations, everyone here in the US still beleives that we make the best trucks.

Matthew

See, that just proves that everyone's opinion is different. (You comment saying no real sports car should have a roof). Many people I know consider sunroof's, convertables and the like (does anyone make a T-Top anymore?!) to be one of the most "un-sportscar" things you can do - they lessen the rigidity of the car. But then, many people say that the Miata is one of the best roadsters out there. Does it get the best numbers for salom or accelleration? No. But the car is more than the sum of its parts. But like I said, I'm a car guy in general. I got all giddy today when I found a prototype Lincoln Navigator in the parking lot (I've seen a lot of prototypes around here). I would never own an SUV and think that the Navigator is a waste of money. But I like seeing what is out there - especially design wise. I would kill for a ride in an 70's European Escort too. It is not all about race numbers, etc. Hell, I even rode in an Aztek to see what it was like!

I agree, I love to see anything new or just modified, no matter what it is, some are funny (Like the Ford Pinto I saw sitting on tractor tires) and some look good, and some are just all out fast. Most of which I would never own, but I still love to see. and especially where I live you dont see much, so I try to go to any car show I can.

I saw a prototype next-generation Dodge Durrango today all camoflaged on the freeway and I was excited! Actually, the upper body did ride really "high" on the frame and didn't seem to match.. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a Durago at all.. Dodge has tested a few Vipers by hiding them under minivans! (for real!)

A sports car does not have to be the best at anything. It does not have to be the fastest car, the most horsepower, the lightest weight, the most rigid, the fastest slalom, the highest g forces, the loudest, the best launch, the most wheels driven, none of that. A sports car is the embodiment of all that is fun about cars. It is the complete opposite of a sedate get to you point b with 3 other passengers loads of groceries kind of car. For that reason, it should be stick shift, have two doors, have a certain nonpracticality about it and for that, it can not have a roof. We're talking sports cars, not competition formula 1 racing machines that have to be the epitome of stiffness with roll bars and whatnot. As such, power and stiffness are not part of the requirement set. Being able to race it in a pinch is though, because you can't have fun unless you can. You don't have to win, because the fun is not in the win itself but in the experience.

Calvin

I still don't get why you don't like roofs! I want one incase my pretend rally car rolls over . The Shelby AC Cobra didn't have a roof... but the Daytona had to add a roof.

Well, a rally car (as opposed to a sports car) would have to have a roof, 4 doors, and tall springs for stepping over boulders. I'll give you that... the concept of a "roof" is all about safety, convenience, and so on. You might as well throw in an slushbox transmission if you're going to require a roof. Not having a roof is all about open-sky, blue-sky high dreams and freedom. That's all part of the sports car mystique. I think the Miata folks go as far to require 2 seats only, as having back seats is too practical to be a part of the definition. But then, that's their opinion. :-p

Calvin

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You might as well throw in an slushbox transmission if you're going to require a roof.

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Okay, no doors, you gotta "hop" in and only one seat like a spider.

A sports car is the embodiment of all that is fun about cars. It is the complete opposite of a sedate get to you point b with 3 other passengers loads of groceries kind of car. For that reason, it should be stick shift, have two doors, have a certain nonpracticality about it and for that, it can not have a roof.

So by your definition, the following aren't sports cars.

Lamborghini Countach, Diablo
Corvettes
Ferrari 575M Maranello, 465M GT/GTA, 360 Modena/Challenge, F40....and that's not even counting the older cars.
Ford GT40
Ultima Sports, GTR
Lotus Esprit.
Jaguar XJ220
McLaren F1 Road, LM, GT, GTR95/96/97


/me begs to differ.

You forgot the NSX and the Integra Type-R (you cant tell me its not a sports car)

The NSX yes, without a doubt.

The Integra Type-R - No. Hah! I can tell you

It's definately a sporty spec'd car, but so are GTIs, most Saabs, various Audis, most BMWs and any other number of cars...

But, we could debate on some of these vehicles forever - my point was that there was a huge list of cars that 99.99% of the population would consider to be a sports car that *do* have lids.

Check out this Type-R.

Nice.

ROTFLMAO!

Thats the funniest thing I have seen all week, thanks Rob you just made exam week a whole lot better

Many of those cars come in convertible form, or at the very least have the ability to pop the roof panel off. The rest are racing cars, not sports cars. Anyway, give me a break. Somebody who has a million bucks to throw away on a McLaren is building up his ego and flouting the size of his wallet. At that point, it's no longer about the spirit of a sports car, it's just how much money do you have, and which race car do you want?

Calvin

HeHe, I was just playing with you. Putting 200 horses in something the size and shape of the Integra is always going to have an effect, and yes it definately is a sports car in my opinion.

But you have raised an interesting question. What constitutes a race car? Any car can be raced. Anyway, about Egos and wallet flouting - you're only jealous that you *don't* have the cash to buy some of those expensive cars. As am I.

Maybe, there will always be a want for those intangible cars that most of us can't afford, but I love the look in the faceof the guy driving it when you blow buy him in something that was never meant to go that fast and costs fractions of what his car cost.

The funniest one I have seen yet was a guy in a ZR-1 corvette (this was before the C5) get romped buy a CJ-5 that looked like a POS. It just had a blown and juiced 401 under the hood.

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CJ-5 that looked like a POS. It just had a blown and juiced 401 under the hood.

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Who, even if they were already out of their mind, would put that much power in a CJ-5, a car that's hardly stable at freeway speeds? I'm rather skeptical about the whole thing...

Matthew

lets just say I know a few people that would, but noone, and I mean noone would ever have considered them to be in there right mind. and as far fetched as it sounds, it was done, the jeep was sitting on 35's and would pick the front end up about 3ft off the ground at full blow. i have to say I think it was the scariest ride I have ever been on.

That's no an uncommon thing (at least in the south). It's not uncommon to see a jacked up POS old bronco on 44's with a 460. I would imagine the owner of that jeep used that power mainly offroad, not on the freeway.

Actually no, that was his cruising jeep (this guy had ungodly amounts of money) his offroad jeep had 44" boggers and a blown 454 in it.

Lets just say that overkill was not in this man's vocabulary. and yes it is a very common thing in the south. I know of plenty jeeps that have the same power or more, usually used offroad to clean the tires, but there none the less

Perversly enough, the best every-day 'driving fun I've had in years was driving a good old landrover SIII 109". (80BHP engine, leaf sprung, ladder chassis; 1400kg)

Just keeping up with traffic was a challange; every corner a challange in its own right. In fact, I had a lot more fun in the old landie than I did with the Audi Quattro (the 4w-drive ralley monster of the '80's). At least I didn't have to look a complete prat trying to even come close to the limits on the Audi on normal roads (isn't that where we do all of our driving 99.9% of the time?).

Had the Landie for two years together with an Alfa 155V6 and found myself doing more miles in it than the Alfa... Much more fun on the daily commute.

I had a series 3 SWB FFR which I ran around as my daily drive for over a year. It was great fun! I also really enjoyed the ritual of putting on gloves, hat, scarf and so forth whenever I went for a drive in the winter - it made every journey into a bit of an adventure!

That was the only vehicle I ever sold for more than I paid, and I rather wish I still had it!

Rob