The empeg is already a solid unit, but there's just a few things that I would like to see added to it. They would require a new player MK3 or whatever, and most people might consider it overkill, but hey it's just my opinion and it would really make me happy to see some of them.
One would be for 3 preouts, non fading sub, front, rear. And also higher voltage outputs on these. This could maybe be an audiophile version of the player that's more expensive but for the people that want it....Could this be solved by hooking the empeg up to an equalizer with 3 hivoltage preouts, or would front/rear be limited to the fact they're on one output from the empeg?
Also I would wonder if it would be possible to have video out and support divx movies. If u think people are impressed that you have ur music collection in your dash, imagine your video collection too. There are many portable mp3/cd players that have video out and support vcd and svcd, so I wouldn't think it would be too hard to support divx. Just another feature to make this unit have EVERYTHING. Also I think with the prices and sizes of hard drives it would be feasible, you could have a dual 30gb player, with one HD dedicated to music, I think 30gb should be more than enough, and then with the other 30Gb I would think you could fit over 20 good quality movies. And buy the time this would be implemented who knows what size the average HD will be. On a side note though, any dvd player can be used with the empeg, right?
Lastly would be features that are already planned that I'd love to see which would be voice recognition and navigation, talk about an all in one, in dash unit.

Sorry for the long post, and hope to see how many people think any of my ideas are good and how many are just awful, hahaha.
Thanks,
Shayne

Hi,

The preouts for the sub sound like a good idea to me. But the voltage on the preouts seems to be fine. I don't have any problems with them-i don't hear any noise. What good would a higher voltage do? Divx is mpeg-4 right? I think a takes a lot of cpu power to decode those. The video out/movies idea seems a bit outrageous to me, since I can't watch movies and drive at the same time. It seems like a "cool" idea, but I don't think I would ever use it.

My two cents worth
Sean

Well the higher voltage preouts will allow you to keep the amp gains lower, and provide better S/N. Like I said, this might be an option for an audiophile package, because like you said you have no problems with the preouts now, and they are definitely good enough for most people, but then there are those that want the hi voltage. As for the divx I don't know how much cpu power it needs, but that may infact be a problem, all I know is that vcd and svcd are on portable mp3/cd players, so if divx doesn't need much more power then it shouldn't be a problem. I do agree with you it is a bit outrageous, but it's for the passengers, if you look in any car audio magazine, the biggest fad now is multimedia, and most cars have tv's in the headrests for back seat passengers, and they even have video game consoles in the back. So that's why I would suggest that if it's not a hard upgrade it might be an idea. I plan on purchasing a dvd player, so in my case I would definitely use it.
Of course this is all just my opinion too :)

one thing that i have often REALLY thought would be cool in the video-output department (requiring an MK-III release, of course) would be a composite VIDEO output next to the "home useage" composite audio outputs.

I know that an additional internal TV-Out module would have to be crammed into an already tiny space, but i would LOVE the empeg's display panel to be somehow viewable on, say, a TV screen in a house. (just imagine visuals like funnelweb on someone's home TV after you tinker in the back with RCA cables for just a second... quite the party hit that would be.)

I only thought of this because when i travel with my empeg i'll often hook it up to a TV set (when there's no stereo system available - like in a hotel room) for amplified audio output. sure would be neat... and the display would be like a super-widescreen aspect ratio.

- Dixieland
MK1 : 6 GB : s/n 00246
MK2 : 16 GB : s/n 080000348

Funny you should mention DivX, I first would have said 'No way, can't be done' but then I found this : [url:DivX for PocketPC]http://www.projectmayo.com:80/projects/subproject.php?projectID=6&subprojectID=11[/url]

Mind you this is based on WinCE 3.0 or Pocket OS or whatever you want it to be called. Still I would suspect supporting fair to high quality stuff is beyond the strongarm. But it has surprised is all in the past, might do so again. But if you look at the resolutions this coded is suggested to be used you will see what I mean.

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

But the empeg's outputs already are high-voltage. The in-car outputs are 4-volt instead of the more common 1-volt. Most car stereo equipment sold these days is still 1-volt, with the high-voltage 4-volt units only just starting to gain widespread acceptance.

I understand that there are even higher-voltage options out there, but they are extremely rare. The empeg's outputs have been engineered to work very well with the widest range of amplifiers, and provide very clean output. All of my amplifiers have their gain settings below the 50% mark and I get fantastic S/N ratio (after I located a loose wire recently that was causing a ground loop).

___________
Tony Fabris

I don't know about you, but my amp gains are turned almost all the way down, and I still listen at around -20db! I can't imagine making the voltage on the preouts any higher, and like tony said, you can run into problems if the voltage is too high.

I also think that video in the car is useless, but that's because I like to *drive*, and drive hard. Leave that toy for the suv drivers.

You're fond of saying "audiophile", but the empeg really is already at audiophile quality. Once higher sample rate (as in >44.1KHz) digital audio files become at all common, I'm sure the empeg team will take that account. I admit, I'm a little surprised they haven't done that already. Probably problems finding capable parts.

Now, I don't want to imply that there is no room for improvement, that would be stupid. Like that VR ability that was promised so long ago...but I digress. I personally like the look of the unit; when I grew up, that kind of screen was what was used on all the cool equipment, and LCDs are, well, boring in comparison. That said, an external panel option could work. But let's give some thought as to how this stuff would actually *look* and *work*.

Fly me to the moon...

Ok, let me try to get out of this without getting my head ripped off :) I never said the outputs were bad now, and I don't have an empeg yet, so this is not from personal experience. I'm sure I would be happy with the outputs since I am not very picky anyways. I just always like to buy the best though(to an extent of course) and with what the empeg provides at the moment I would still need to spend another 2000$ about to buy a second head unit to get everything I want. The reason I mention the outputs is just a suggestion, I am in no waying saying that they are unacceptable now, but this forum is for a "wish list" so that's why I mention it. This is a quote from mobile entertainment "Maximum unclipped output was 1.3 volts; while certainly workable, many folks prefer a higher voltage these days. (The company rates maximum output level at 3.6 volts without clipping.) ", the whole review can be found at http://www.m-emag.com/reviews/reviews.html?reviewID=60
Also, as a question, how can u control front and back speakers separately and a sub with only 2 preouts. Can you?

As for the divx, it's also just a suggestion :) I didn't yet have time to check that windows CE divx link yet, and don't know enough myself to say whether it would be feasible or not. Some of you think it's a bad idea because you wouldn't use it, but I think for the amount of people that would want it, if it is an easy addition, why not. If you look in any car audio magazine, the biggest trend right now is multimedia, and I wouldn't want the video to be displayed on the empeg, just have video out for tv's in the headrest for passenger entertainment because I usually have a pretty full car and need something to keep them quiet :). Btw, that might be a kinda neet idea about hookin it up to a tv. I think people who say an idea is bad because it would not fit their needs aren't looking at it the right way. You need to try to make as many people happy as possible, but at the same time I know it's impossible for something to have everything you want. So if a function like divx would raise the price 500$ or reduce the quality of the sound, then forget about it. However, if it can be implemented easily and at a reasonable cost, just because you don't want it I don't think is good enough reason to say it shouldn't be added.

Anyways this post is way too long so I'll stop it here, I really hope I didn't offend anyone in the things I said, and if my ideas aren't the greatest feel free to criticize me, I promise I won't get offended :) I just don't really like when people say that's a bad idea because I wouldn't use it personally.

Thanks for putting up with me,
Shayne

Also, as a question, how can u control front and back speakers separately and a sub with only 2 preouts. Can you?

Yes, you can. You just can't do it with the controls on the front panel of the Empeg itself. The empeg only fades two pairs of outputs from its own control panel.

The ways you can control a sub separately are:

1) Use a subwoofer amplifier that includes a remote-control connection for the subwoofer level control. This remote control knob can be mounted on or under your dash. I think they might even make wireless ones, but I'm sure those are expensive.

2) Use a Radio Shack stereo potentiometer and wire up a simple attenuator in-line to your subwoofer cables. Again, mount on or under your dash somewhere. I used to use a cheap amplifier once (not for the subwoofer), which didn't have level adjustments. This arrangement allowed me to adjust the amp's input level the same as if the gain adjuster had been included on the amp itself.

3) Pipe the empeg's output (just one L/R pair, doesn't matter which one) through the aux-in of a stereo that does have a separate subwoofer output.

Of course, you could always do this: Don't bother fading front and back at all. Just run the Empeg fronts to all of your regular-speaker amps, and the Empeg rears to the subwoofer amplifier. Use the amp's input gains to balance front and back to your liking and leave it there. Then the empeg's fader controls the subwoofer/regular speaker balance. I recently switched to doing this and I'm happy.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned yet, either: The Empeg uses a sliding scale for its loudness contour boost (not just on/off). This boosts frequencies mainly in the subwoofer-covered range. I have often adjusted the response of my subwoofer by adjusting the loundess setting. You could do all your subwoofer adjusting this way if you like.

Another thing you could do is to use the empeg's EQ presets to store different settings with different amounts of bass cut. Then switch between EQ presets to change the response of your subwoofer.

___________
Tony Fabris

This is a quote from mobile entertainment "Maximum unclipped output was 1.3 volts

..which we strongly disagree with. If they're talking about RMS they might be in the ballpark, but stating "maximum unclipped" does imply peak-to-peak voltage which is actually 3.6V. Anyone with a scope and a test track can verify this.

I'm not sure how ME ran the test, or what they used as their source signal. They claim that they definitely tested the right outputs, but as the home outputs _are_ about 1.3V this makes me wonder.

Rob

Sorry if you thought I was ripping your head off. I just don't see any point in mincing words. At any rate, re a couple of your comments:

I'll defer to Rob's comment about that article; there was a discussion on the BBS earlier, and no one here could figure out how they were getting those values.

Tony's comment is also accurate, as usual. ;)

And re divx--I think the point is that it probably wouldn't be cheap...at least to do it *right*. Somewhat okay video output in a high-end unit wouldn't seem all that desirable, so for that reason, it would cost a lot of money,and you couldn't get away with divx (however you're supposed to capitalize that).

I see your point, if you're driving something like a minivan or such. There could be some utility there..however, there are serious obstacles. I won't go into those deeply, but one of them that immediately comes to mind is that it will be extremely difficult to get a docking connector of sufficient pin-count to implement that.

With the product as it is now, I could imagine using one of the hacks to get the ethernet connection dockable, and then streaming data to something like the gateway version of the iopener, which would then decode it itself.

Fly me to the moon...

Ok well if that review from ME was wrong then I guess that's that for that problem. How about a non fading sub output though?
And as for the divx, that's more of an answer I was looking for, that it would not be cost effective and such. Thanks for clearing that up a bit, but are you saying it WOULD be too expensive, or that you think it would, just wondering if it's definitely not a cost effective possibility. Also one last question, I saw there are talks of a navigation system, this would really be of interest to me, I was just wondering though, can this be implemented into the current MK2, and if so, where would the gps unit plug into?

Thanks again for all the replys,
Shayne

A sub output could be handy in some installations, however it would not be all that useful in a high end system. It is very unlikely that such a system would make use of the front/rear fade as the rear drivers are strictly for rear fill and once set would not need to be adjusted independently of the front. Most installations I've seen take the sub signal from the front channels (via a crossover) and I can't say I've ever had a problem with that.

Having said all that, I might have been spoiled by the sub gain remote control that comes with my Kicker 405 - not that I've ever turned it down I guess having a sub gain control in the empeg could be useful if we also got individual settings per track or genre.

As for GPS, if someone releases some software, you will be able to plug your GPS receiver into the docked serial port.

Rob

Hmmm...I do agree with you that front/rear fade isn't that important because rear is just for rear fill, and most SQ cars don't even have any rearfill so they don't draw the staging too far back. The reason though that I'd want 3 preouts, is because I want one to plug into my sub amp, then 2 separate into a 4 channel amp for components to use when watching a dvd for surround sound. Then I want to be able to unplug one set of RCA's from the 4 channel amp so that only the front's play when I'm just listening to music and have no passengers. Maybe if I had a splitter from the front out? I'm not quite sure of how I'd do this with only 2 sets of RCA outs.
Thanks for any help.

That's an interesting routing scheme, Protru.

Although you realize that the "four outputs for surround sound" means that the empeg isn't going to be the one supplying those amps. You'll need a totally different product to do that. Regular car stereos only have left/right audio and can't process front/rear separately.

The empeg happens to let you split up the EQ between front and rear, but that's as complicated as it gets. It can't do any surround sound processing, it can only feed two audio channels (L/R) to the DSP.

I don't know what in-dash products will do surround sound for you, though, that's out of my league.

Of course, being a Home Theater buff in addition to an MP3 buff, I don't see the big deal about DVD-in-the-car. I'm partial to watching my movies in a darkened living room on a projection screen, and wouldn't want to watch my movies on a tiny screen in a car.

Playstation in the car, on the other hand...

___________
Tony Fabris

Yeah, either way it would have to go through a DSP, so I guess that would have all the outputs? Maybe that solves all the problems. And Playstation 2 would be a pretty good idea since it can play DVDs as well, a small problem though if that is the source of your DVD player is that the people in the back would have to agree on whether they wanted to play playstation or watch a dvd, although I guess if it's only gonna be used for while I'm driving most of my drives aren't long enough for a movie. The one advantage I was thinking about the divx or in this case probably svcd would suffice on the empeg is for music videos. That way the driver can still hear the music as opposed to a DVD where just listening to a movie isn't too great, and the passengers can watch the music video. Because I have a whole archive of music videos on my computer.
Also going back to my first question, would a 1/2 DIN equalizer with HiVoltage outputs, output what it's rated at (lets say 5 volts) or would it be limited to the voltage inputted into it?

Also going back to my first question, would a 1/2 DIN equalizer with HiVoltage outputs, output what it's rated at (lets say 5 volts) or would it be limited to the voltage inputted into it?

I don't know. I think that would depend on the equalizer. If you're planning on buying from Crutchfield, I think they'd be able to tell you that.

___________
Tony Fabris

The empeg happens to let you split up the EQ between front and rear, but that's as complicated as it gets. It can't do any surround sound processing, it can only feed two audio channels (L/R) to the DSP.

Is that a software or a hardware limitation? In other words, could the player software be made to detect and decode Dolby ProLogic Surround signals and send them to the back speakers, so I can listen to Ray of Light in surround sound, for instance? If so, that would instantly become the number one top priority on my wishlist!

Hmmm, upon reading your post again I discovered that you already answered my question. But all is not yet lost! Does anyone know if the DSP can do Dolby ProLogic Surround processing?

Edited by Captain_Chaos on 08/07/01 10:48 PM.

As you already gleaned, the DSP only accepts left and right inputs. It was designed for car stereo applications and I doubt it has multi-channel capability. There are some capabilities in the chip that aren't being used by Empeg, but surround-sound processing isn't one of them.

If you want to look it up, you can grab its spec sheet in PDF format off the web. Do a search on "SAA7705H".

___________
Tony Fabris

I personally think all this is getting a bit off the mark. The DSP cannot handle surround 'on-board', and to make it do things like play DVDs and such is a bit of an ask.

Better functionality would be to have the empeg as a controller or 'head unit' for a series of dumb replay devices such as DVD and games stations. Why couldnt a DVD unit be a half DIN height front loading mechanism that has power, UTP and audio sockets? the decoding could be done by an external box if necessary but the result is far superior to getting the empeg to do EVERYTHING!

{BTW, I'm a fan of not having 'swiss army knife' products. devices that can do heaps of stuff but does nothing particularly well /}

Murray 06000047
I don't think, therefore I am not.

I agree about the DVD stuff being off the mark, but the Dolby Prologic Surround support would be logical for a high-end system like the empeg, with four audio outputs. Not for video, but for audio tracks with surround, such as Madonna's Ray of Light CD.

Interesting.... It seems that digital surround (Dolby AC3 mostly) is finally gaining the foothold outside movie world. I hope the end result will not be like that of quadrophonia in 70s (anybody remembers that?)

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Yes that would be a great function but it would add to the price. And it cant do it right now.
It is possible to make external spacial surround processers which would function off at least two of the empegs outputs. I still see the done better as an addon than contained in one unit. Case in point: are the current high end home stereos component systems or single units? They're components so you can add the bits you want (or can afford).

If the empeg could decode then i might be interested but i can't see that it could so i'm looking for other ways.


Murray 06000047
I don't think, therefore I am not.

digital surround (Dolby AC3 mostly) is finally gaining the foothold outside movie world

[disclaimer]I have never experienced surround sound, so in all likelihood I don't know what I am talking about here.[/disclaimer]

What's the deal with this surround sound idea? I thought the idea of a high-end stereo system was to emulate the experience of a live performance closely as possible. In IASCA competition, the goal is to have your stereo develop a "sound stage", located in front of you and at horizon height, the wider the better. Points are deducted for sound coming from behind, which makes it essential to be very careful in how you develop your rear fill and cross over your subs (assuming they are in the back of the car as is usually the case.)

I do not often sit in the woodwinds section of an orchestra during concerts, and am not convinced that this would be desirable from the point of view of hearing the music as it was meant to be heard.

I can see where surround sound would be highly effective in movies, in which the action and more importantly the sound source is always in motion, so at times it would be appropriate for the sound to come from behind. In the world of pure audio, however, these situations are rare.

Or am I overlooking something obvious here?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

[disclaimer]I have never experienced surround sound, so in all likelihood I don't know what I am talking about here.[/disclaimer]

Of course you know what you are talking about, Doug. I have not listened to any music in AC3 either, and in the days of quadrophonia didn't have equipment. The theory goes, as I understand, that the back channels are supposed to bring, apart from dinosaur roar, whatever sound is actually comming from the back of the actual venue (i.e. echo). How well it works and whether it really adds to fidelity, I don't know.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Well AC3 Encoded audio doesn't always need to be in 5.1 or 6.1 (in the case of EX). It does support 2.1 audio as well. However, If you have had a chance to listen to DVD Audio, which is encoded in 5.1 AC3, or 5.1 DTS, it's amazing what artists have been able to do with those additional channels. Being able to produce sound that is different from all angles, and immurses you even further into the listening experience.

Yeah most audio is recorded in Stereo right now, but I have bought a few Pro Logic (Four Channel) encoded CD's, that sound that much better on a system that will do Pro Logic decoding. I also have a couple DVD Audio DVD's that have 5.1 AC3 tracks, and my goodness, the fidelity of the audio is amazing, and the entire exprience is that much more. I got the DVD Audio DVDs from a Toshiba Rep that was showing off the technology at the Best Buy I worked at. I haven't seen any for buy as of yet. It's kinda sad.

Just my thoughts

Damien Heiser

RioCar 12GB Blue SN: 120001043

Surround sound is primarily intended for movies and television. The movies immerse you in the action by placing environmental sounds all around you. And it's not always just action and sound effects. For instance, one of the most convincing uses of surround sound I ever heard was on an episode of The X Files, where there were some scenes in a prison cell. The surround speakers carried the ambient reverb of the dialogue, giving the room a "depth" that regular stereo couldn't do. It made you feel like you were sitting in the cell with the characters. It was eerily effective.

At the current time, most musical artists are not concentrating on surround sound very much as it relates to recorded music.

However, that doesn't mean that you can't get creative with multi-channel sound. You might not want to sit in the woodwinds during a classical performance, but imagine a more interesting scenario: The spooky sound effects in Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" coming from behind you. For instance, the beginning of "Time" could sound like you were sitting inside the clock shop when all the clocks went off.

The studio recording of Dark Side of the Moon isn't recorded in surround sound, but when I saw Pink Floyd perform a live show, they did have rear speakers in the arena and did make use of them for sound effects and other interesting things.

___________
Tony Fabris