I have an idea for an automotive product...unrelated to the empeg. I need someone to help me turn my idea into something that can be patented.

Anyway, it isn't anything very complex.

Anyone think they can help me with this?

It sounds like you need a patent lawyer instead of an electrical engineer.

It sounds like you need a patent lawyer instead of an electrical engineer.

And whatever you do, stay away from those guys you see on the late night TV ads, "Inventors -- do you have a product that needs marketing?" type of thing.

They will do nothing for you but take your money. To test this theory, come up with the stupidest idea imaginable (say, an electric toothpick) and submit it. They will fall all over themselves telling you that, while maybe not quite as good an idea as the wheel (which they helped get the patent on, BTW) it beats the hell out of Velcro and will make you a millionaire. Just send them $200 to get things going, and the money will start rolling in shortly after. People have been known to spend tens of thousands of dollars with these ripoff artists with nothing to show for it.

A syndicated radio talk show host once issued a challenge to one of these organizations to produce one single patent that they had ever actually obtained. They were unable to do so, despite having been in the "business" for decades.

tanstaafl.

my best friend (and roommate) is an electrical engineer, and his fiancee is a patent lawyer. Does that help?

Make sure to get the EE to sign a NDA before working on it or the patent may be very hard to prove
Additionally, Unless it is a new way of doing an electrical function (doubtful) a patent may not be what you're after. If it's a circuit design, you may only need copyright law

I went through a similar deal a few years back. I gave them $800 and they did a patent search for me (to make sure my idea wasn't already patented), as well as some market research. It was all compiled into a nice little book, at which point they wanted me to drop another $5000 to get the actual patent submitted... Unfortanately, now my idea is just a little blue book

My take on patents is they are not useful for most people. The only way you will ever get any money from it is through lawsuits. These can take the form of offensive lawsuits (other products use your idea) or defensive lawsuits (protect yourself from other patent portfolios).

If you make a product, you absolutely need to have patents, preferably hundreds of them, to protect yourself. If you do not plan to make the product, you need a warchest and utter ruthlessness.

Still, they are good bragging rights, no?

-Biscuits

If you are serious talk to pca after meeting him and seeing some of his products i think he could probably advise you or make it

Sometimes patent holders use them to piss off an entire group of fanatics. Take this guy (Gell) that holds the patent for using a hot air corn popper to roast coffee beans. It works great in small batches, but no one can move forward with the concept because the Gell threatens to sue anyone using the concept and has not ever taken the concept to production. He is one of the most disliked people in the home roasting world... And he will go to great lengths to protect it...

Pharmaceutical companies do the same thing. Quite often, 3 or 4 companies will each own a patent on a different aspect of an illness (naturally-occuring proteins, etc.) None of them can research it without getting the approval of everyone else. This is one of the reasons we haven't seen more miracle drugs for the past 20 years or more.

-Biscuits

Did this guy invent the hot air roaster?

Also, this is the same way that Macrovision keeps people from marketing anti-macrovision products; they own the patents on all of the known methods for circumventing it.

No he just patented the use of it for roasting coffee beans. And he seems to get it upheld quite well. Now any Average Joe can use a hot air popper at home, but no one can market the concept for production and sale.

I suppose it's one of these:

• 6,065,226 -- Coffee roaster filter, chaff collector and smoke reducer
• 5,943,790 -- Coffee roaster chaff collector and smoke eliminator
• 5,500,237 -- Removable coffee roaster oven chamber
• 5,359,788 -- Coffee roaster
• 4,602,147 -- Roasting timer
• 4,494,314 -- Coffee roaster

US patent law clearly states (35 USC 102):

A person shall be entitled to a patent unless

(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent, or

(b) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country, more than one year prior to the date of the application for patent in the United States, or

(c) he has abandoned the invention, or

(d) the invention was first patented or caused to be patented, or was the subject of an inventor s certificate, by the applicant or his legal representatives or assigns in a foreign country prior to the date of the application for patent in this country on an application for patent or inventor s certificate filed more than twelve months before the filing of the application in the United States, or

(e) the invention was described in (1) an application for patent, published under section 122(b), by another filed in the United States before the invention by the applicant for patent or (2) a patent granted on an application for patent by another filed in the United States before the invention by the applicant for patent, except that an international application filed under the treaty defined in section 351(a) shall have the effects for the purposes of this subsection of an application filed in the United States only if the inter-national application designated the United States and was published under Article 21(2) of such treaty in the English language; or

(f) he did not himself invent the subject matter sought to be patented, or

(g)(1) during the course of an interference conducted under section 135 or section 291, another inventor involved therein establishes, to the extent permitted in section 104, that before such person s invention thereof the invention was made by such other inventor and not abandoned, suppressed, or concealed, or (2) before such person s invention thereof, the invention was made in this country by another inventor who had not abandoned, suppressed, or concealed it. In determining priority of invention under this subsection, there shall be considered not only the respective dates of conception and reduction to practice of the invention, but also the reasonable diligence of one who was first to conceive and last to reduce to practice, from a time prior to conception by the other.

Point (f) would seem to be very clear. Point (a) may also be relevant. But, IANAL.

It's been awhile since I looked at some of the posts on alt.coffee about it, but it seems he patented parts of the design of the popper used to roast. Though he didn't invent the popper himself, it has to do with the shape of the roaster and the angled vents etc etc.. It's really bizarre... I've often wondered if it's really that strong of a patent, most folks who attempt it crumble once the lawyer sends notice it seems. I use my Hearthware Precision roaster religiously and no Gell fella is gonna make me drink Charbuck$!

He also couldn't build the bean popper without permission from whoever, if anyone, owns the patent on the regular popper.

I read that if someone owns a patent on a 3-legged chair, and you invent the 4-legged chair, you can get a patent on the 4-legged chair but can't build it without permission from the guy that invented the 3-legged chair because he has a patent on chairs with 3 legs. But that guy couldn't build your 4-legged chair either without your permission.

That is basically how it works, yes. The 4-legged chair would be a derivative of the 3-legged one and cite it in the filing, if the 3-legged patent also had claims like "a place to sit with a support structure underneath" that encompass your claim.

Patents are like landmines. You never know where they are until one blows your leg off.

-Biscuits

I know I need a NDA before I proceed. I need to get something together for that.
Time. I need time...anyone have any extra?