Okay, first, the nitty gritty.

-This is a small PCB (2in x 3in) that converts RS232 from the Empeg to TTL for a remove VFD.
-The VFD is designed for a Noritake VFD, the same type (if not size) in the Empeg itself.
-The PCB converts +12, either from an external power supply (AC adapter), or from the Empeg's serial thru the Sled.
-On the PCB there is a switch which 'flips' the TX/RX signals so that you don't have to use a crossover cable.
-Right now, estimated price is $30. This includes PCB & components. I'm not makin' any moey off of this, so the more people that order, the cheaper it'll end up.
-Estimated production date is beg-mid August.
-No, there is no software that actually writes to the VFD. Yet. I may come up with something for my personal use, and I'll let everyone know when. If any programmer wants to try something, let me know, I can forward communication specs for the display.
-The price does NOT include the VFD. If you select an option where it includes the VFD, and I decide not to purchase the VFD's, you'll get the same option, minus VFD.

Sign up Here!! You can also check your info there. Ignore site graphics and such. I just had to pick one of my domains that had database and PHP access. PM or Email me if I forgot to say anything obvious..

Sounds very cool, Mike. A few questions, since I arrived late to the party over in the Projects forum.

1. In your best estimation, how much of a usable display would be expected from a 115,200 baud connection? I don't expect Toby's visuals on the remote display, that's of course way too much bandwidth... But what were *you* planning on putting on the remote display?
2. Are these displays small enough that they could be mounted in the dashboard, kind of like Hugo's little "mini-me" display thingie from a few months ago? Or even on the windshield up near the rear view mirror? That'd be SWEET.
3. I'm guessing that using this precludes the use of GPSapp or anything else that uses the serial port, right? Damnit why didn't the empeg guys think of adding a second COM port for the car???
4. I don't know how much time I am going to have this summer, but emphatic is already doing a lot of work to read the song data, including current track time, playlist length, etc... All things that would be good candidates to find their way to a remote display. Seems like it'd be a nice place for this kind of code to live... How complex is the communication protocol? If it's not too heavy of a coding task, maybe I could throw something in...

In reply to:

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Sounds very cool, Mike. A few questions, since I arrived late to the party over in the Projects forum.

1. In your best estimation, how much of a usable display would be expected from a 115,200 baud connection? I don't expect Toby's visuals on the remote display, that's of course way too much bandwidth... But what were *you* planning on putting on the remote display?
2. Are these displays small enough that they could be mounted in the dashboard, kind of like Hugo's little "mini-me" display thingie from a few months ago? Or even on the windshield up near the rear view mirror? That'd be SWEET.
3. I'm guessing that using this precludes the use of GPSapp or anything else that uses the serial port, right? Damnit why didn't the empeg guys think of adding a second COM port for the car???
4. I don't know how much time I am going to have this summer, but emphatic is already doing a lot of work to read the song data, including current track time, playlist length, etc... All things that would be good candidates to find their way to a remote display. Seems like it'd be a nice place for this kind of code to live... How complex is the communication protocol? If it's not too heavy of a coding task, maybe I could throw something in...

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Good questions...
1. Personally, I planned to simply use mine for kinda a HUD. I drive a Mini Cooper, and the radio is viewable by the driver, but it's way off to the right hand side. So, I'm putting mine just in front and to the bottom of my Tachometer, which is mounted on the steeringwheel. Since I don't need the visulations right in front of me, I was going to simply use my display to show the current song playing. Title, Artist, Year, Album.. all the generic stuff, then maybe a few fields that I use custom-like.
[Edit: Oh, the other reason I was going for text-only was because the VFD does not have gray-shading. It's either ON or OFF. I spent about a week messing with a small program I wrote that read the screen's display, and gave me the output either 'ON' or 'OFF', and adjusted the levels, and no matter which setting I put it at, Menus and aliased text was rather hard to read. (The visuals, however, didn't look too bad..)
2. These displays are friggin' TINY. At least, the one I plan on using (GW128x32C-K610A) has a viewable display area of roughly 1in high by 4in wide. The entire VFD board is 1.5in high by 5in wide.. Same dot resolution used by the Empeg, just higher DPI.
3. Actually, I've been thinking about that. I don't know enough of the GPSapp to anser completely, but if the GPSapp does NOT need commands sent *TO* the GPS, then it wouldn't be difficult to just plug in a small serial 'Y' cable and cut the RX leads in it to the GPS, and on my little PCB, cut one trace. That way inbound to the Empeg comes FROM the GPS, and outbound goes To the VFD..
4. It is pretty darn simple. In fact, upon powerup, the VFD defaults to having the cursor in the upper left-hand side. For characters simply send the ASCII code. (Straight Text). The manual says that the cursor will 'wrap' after it hits the end of the line, although I haven't tested it yet. (Will it move down a line? Will it cut off the last character if it can't fit? etc etc.) Other commands are usually preluded by a 'command' character (ASCII < 0x20), and then the values to that command. Quite, quite imple. The VFD dosn't return anything except "R" on powerup/reset, and "E" on command error.

Of note, also, the VFD is standard color, however, they do sell filters for it, as I'm sure Darkstorm's gels would work just as well...

Me.

No, there is no software that actually writes to the VFD. Yet. I may come up with something for my personal use, and I'll let everyone know when. If any programmer wants to try something, let me know, I can forward communication specs for the display.

I was under the impression that Hugo has already got something working with some changes to the kernel. Perhaps he would like to share that code with the world. It could be incorporated into 3.0 or maybe into Hijack.

You don't need to send ascii letters only. You can do graphics at 115,200 BPS. Some math:

128 pixels by 32 pixels = 4096 pixels per screenful. Assuming the kernel code only sends 1-bit graphic information, that means you could theoretically (depending on how the VFD wants its graphics inputted) get about 28 frames per second. That's not bad. And it could become a full display extender at that point.

What about the software "V99" was using for the remote display he made the video of ? He had the display and that neat joystick / rotary control hooked up somehow too.

Well, not exactly..
For every bit, you'd have to send:
3 characters to set the position, then 1 character to turn pixen on or off.
4 characters per pixel. (At lowest efficency, of course.)
This would drop that down to roughly 6 frames/second.

But, again, on top of that, alot of the graphics just wouldn't look pretty, since we have 4 'colors' on the main screen, and on the remote screen, we have 2...

Me.

Oh, and to address some of the e-mails -
No, signing up does NOT mean you are actually going to BUY one. It's for me to get a measure of how many I'll have to make, therefore, a better price guesstimate.
However, once I get to the point of making them, I will go by that list, starting at the beginning, so if you're NOT on it, you will have to sign up at the end. If I get to you, and you drop out, that's perfectly fine. I'll just give your e-mail to several adult sites. (Kidding! )

Again, right now, I'm estimating about 20 units, and if so, that will be about $30 each.

Me.

I don't think that splitting the Tx/Rx wouldn't work at the moment. I think that GPSapp will balk if it can't open the serial port. Maybe I'm wrong.

For every bit, you'd have to send:
3 characters to set the position, then 1 character to turn pixen on or off.
4 characters per pixel. (At lowest efficency, of course.)
This would drop that down to roughly 6 frames/second.

Is that because the VFD doesn't support some kind of "blit" mode where you simply send it an ordered array of pixels?

Seems kind of strange that they'd make a bitmapped display that couldn't actually take a bitmap as input.

I'm right in the middle of installing everything into my Miata.. I should have more pictures this weekend.

My software is written for the 3100/3900 series Noritake displays.. The command set is very similar to some of their other ones like the 7000 series, but the one foxtrot_xray is using is totally different (and far simpler). It's fairly primitive at the moment (blitting by pixels changed, or the entire bitmap, etc), and really needs to be improved because I've painted myself into a corner speed-wise by choosing a display that's 4x the size (256x64) and only 38,400bps .. But I have some evil plans for the extra screen real-estate.

... that means you could theoretically (depending on how the VFD wants its graphics inputted) get about 28 frames per second. That's not bad. And it could become a full display extender at that point.

And that's just the simple way to do it (or the worst case).. depending on the command set of the chosen display the drawing can be optimized significantly.

Well, not exactly..
For every bit, you'd have to send:
3 characters to set the position, then 1 character to turn pixen on or off.
4 characters per pixel. (At lowest efficency, of course.)
This would drop that down to roughly 6 frames/second.

Is that because the VFD doesn't support some kind of "blit" mode where you simply send it an ordered array of pixels?

The K610a does have commands to draw bitmaps by sending data either horizontally or vertically (0x18 and 0x19).. the 3900 and 7100s only do vertical, which is bloody annoying. I've attached the spec sheet for the K610a in case anybody wants to look at it (can't remember which are on their site and which you have to ask them for).

I don't think that splitting the Tx/Rx wouldn't work at the moment. I think that GPSapp will balk if it can't open the serial port. Maybe I'm wrong.

Right now I have separate apps for blitting to my VFD and receive commands from the joystick.. they seem happy enough sharing the serial port (with the same code used to open it in each).

Just noticed this re-reading the thread.. regarding speeds:

1. In your best estimation, how much of a usable display would be expected from a 115,200 baud connection?

You can do graphics at 115,200 BPS

If we're talking about the tiny display foxtrot's using (and Hugo posted pics of), it only runs at 19,200bps max (unless Hugo releases whatever hackery he does to get it faster)... The 3100/3900-series is 38,400, and the 7000-series is 115,200.

Even the primitive drawing that I have now is fast enough to be useful for non-vidual info modes.

photo of pcb assembled?

Yeah, it's kind of strange. The display DOES have commands like 'box' and 'line', 'reverse' and such.. Just have to specifiy each dot when writing full-graphics.

Now, you COULD write some algorithm that split the display up into sections, and converted the 'only changed' parts from the previous fram into batter commands, like line and fill boxes and such, but that would increase the CPU usage, definately..

Me.

In reply to:

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The K610a does have commands to draw bitmaps by sending data either horizontally or vertically (0x18 and 0x19)..

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Ooh, no, you're right. I just posted where I didn't think it had a command like this, and you bring that up. Thanks. It's still not AS highly optimized as sending jule 4096 woth of info (still goitta send headers) but it's somewhat better than 4 frames.

Me.

What is the estimated cost of the Noritake VFD?
I would be intrested in something like this, as the eye distance between the road and the empeg is quite far in my Golf.

Well, consider me interested in this project... It sounds very cool.

The model I'm using and the one that may come with thie kit if it works out easier, is roughly $120. I think if I have a certain amount, there's a cut in the price, but not sure at what quantity.

(And, for the record all, those things are *BRIGHT*. Those many dots, packed in a small space..)

Me.

BRIGHT might not be good when placed in drivers view, is brighness adjustable?
$120 sounds normal.

is brighness adjustable?

You could always adjust it with a tinted lens in front of the display.

- trs

THey would work. On top of that, yes, brightness is adjustable. I don't have the spec sheet, but it either has 4 or 7 different levels of brighness.
The only catch is that it's software controlled - meaning you ave to send it a brightness command from the serial port...

Me.

Greetings!

$120? I was able to get the ones in the empeg for about $60 each. If there is a part number for me to look up, I can try the same folks at Noritake, see if I can get something a bit better than $120...

You were just getting the glass display part right. I believe what he is getting is the display on a pcb that is ready to be connected to a serial port.

Valid point.

Hey, if you can get it cheaper, go for it, and let me know. Part # is GW128x32C-K610A... Won't save me anything, since I already got mine, but save some others some moola.

Me.

Greetings!

Yup. Slightly better, anyway... The Noritake person I am dealing with is a car audio enthusiast, so he is always very helpful when I call and explain what the stuff is for. He was really concerned that I knew the size of the (very small) module, until I told him that these might be used in-gauge...

For 20 units, I can get them at $105.93 per. The price goes down a little from there, but the big discounts don't start until you get to 100 units ($90).

If anyone is interested, I am considering an order of 20 to cover (some of) the initial requests for the external VFD PCBs. Obviously, I don't want to get too many, because I don't want to have leftovers...

Definately interested in one.

/Michael

Also definitely interested in one. I sent through a request for PCB w/ vfd on foxtrot's site.

- trs

Okay, I'm surprised this hasn't been touched on yet, so I'm just throwing it out there...

Three words... Heads.. up... display.

I'm no whiz with lenses, mirrors, and other optical thingies, but couldn't a VFD be turned into a jet-fighter style heads-up display with a little trickeration? I'm not talking about something that shines right onto your field of view, but maybe something that shines song info and other goodies somewhere on your windshield that's out of the way (underneath/beside the rear view, maybe.) Seems that VFD's are pretty bright, and, at least for night time driving, this could actually be doable...

Not that having a VFD in with the gauges and such isn't a great idea, but it'd be even cooler (and, yes, geekier) to have a heads-up display. So, am I crazy here? Or would this actually be feasible?

I don't see why it couldn't. I think you couldn't use the display I was planning, because it'd be too small. You'd only see a blue-green blur on the road in front of you.

Anyone here good with optics? I would definately go for something like that, the way my dash is made out, I wouldn't even see the vfd, then..

Me.

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He was really concerned that I knew the size of the (very small) module, until I told him that these might be used in-gauge...

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What, is the size supposed to be top secret or something?

$105 isn't bad at all, I'm checking my records to see how many people said they might be interested in a VFD as well.. Can you ask him about the 'colored filters' they 'advertise' on their website?

As of now, about a day after I put the page up, I have about 23 PCB's ordered from 13 different people, of which, 14 of those units INCLUDED a VFD. So, we're pretty close to 20 already...

Me.