#211887 - 07/04/2004 10:42
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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In that case, I have two case, which distro has the best setup instructions and instructions in general for a complete Linux newbie who is installing on a reformatted drive?
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Matt
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#211888 - 07/04/2004 11:18
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Basically the one concern I had was whether or not a certain distro would support my hardware. From the 4 processors... The support for multiple processors lives in the kernel, not in your linux distro. Basically, you're either going to have to find an already compiled kernel that supports your hardware with SMP (Symmetric Multi-Processors) enabled, or you'll need to compile your own kernel to make use of the multiple procs.
Here's some more info
- trs
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- trs
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#211889 - 07/04/2004 12:33
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Oh joy, this is already getting more and more complicated. I'm sorry, but I'm not at the kernel building stage yet. If someone could point me to something I can use, I'd be grateful. I wasn't really expecting to trudge through anything other than a basic distro installation...
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Matt
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#211890 - 07/04/2004 12:42
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It's not as complicated as people make out. It's just running a configuration utility and then typing "make bzImage", which the configuration utility will actually tell you to do. That being said, it's not unlikely that a distro will include an SMP kernel. I know RedHat did. Maybe Fedora will. Mandrake 10 specifically claims it has SMP support.
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Bitt Faulk
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#211891 - 07/04/2004 13:17
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Yeah, it really isn't a hard thing to do - it can just be a little time consuming. But, if a distro you want to use doesn't have a SMP enabled kernel for you to use, more than likely the kernel you go with in the distro will have the config file to go with it. You can then just change that config file to include smp support and re-compile your kernel form that config. More than likely any distro you go with will also have a step-by-step on how to best config and compile the kernel.
- trs
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- trs
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#211892 - 07/04/2004 15:55
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Is there a free version of Mandrake? I don't want to join this club thing.
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Matt
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#211894 - 07/04/2004 23:19
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Basically the one concern I had was whether or not a certain distro would support my hardware. If you're not running x86, this might be a concern. Otherwise, it's probably just a matter of configuration. One quick way to figure out what your machine needs in terms of configuration hardware-wise, is to pop in a Knoppix CD, which is widely regarded as being one of, if not the best for detecting and configuring hardware, take a look at the modules it loads, and poke around through /proc. Then it's a pretty simple thing to duplicate that set-up with any other distro. YMMV, of course. 
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#211895 - 07/04/2004 23:49
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Gentoo is extremely well documented. A lot of people would argue it's not for beginners, but I think if you can follow instructions and already have a fair grasp of computers in general, you shouldn't have a problem with it. Once it's installed it is a very admin friendly distro.
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#211896 - 08/04/2004 07:15
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Thanks, guys. I think I'm going to try Mandrake. I liked the screenshots and so far they're the only one I've seen with explicit support for multiple processors. I just don't feel like complicating this any more than I have to.
Now I face a different problem. I used a boot disk to remove the partition from the OS drive of the server. I wasnted to start from scratch, since there werre already two versions of NT4.0 and a trial for 2003. I'm not sure how to get the drive formatted and start installing a new OS, because I don't know how I'll boot from the CD since the CD is SCSI and doesn't appear as a boot option in the system setup. Any ideas?
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Matt
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#211897 - 08/04/2004 10:09
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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From http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake/9.0/i586/INSTALL.txt
" 3. Make a boot floppy with Windows
If your computer cannot boot from the CDROM and previous methods do
not work, you must make a boot floppy under Windows as follows:
* insert the CDROM, then open the icon "My Computer", right click on
the CDROM drive icon and select "Open"
* go into the "dosutils" directory and double-click on the
"rawwritewin" icon
* insert a blank floppy in the floppy drive
* select "D:\images\cdrom.img" in the "Image File" field (assuming
that your CDROM drive is "D:", otherwise replace "D:" as needed)
* select "A:" in the "Floppy Drive" field then click on "Write".
To begin the installation:
* insert the CDROM in the drive, as well as the boot floppy, then
* restart the computer."
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#211898 - 08/04/2004 10:56
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Thanks, but aren't those instructions for just making a boot floppy? My problem is that I don't know how to install Linux with an unformatted drive, a floppy disk, and an unbootable SCSI CDROM.
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Matt
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#211899 - 08/04/2004 11:03
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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The boot floppy will load the installation program from the CD-ROM drive, which will walk you through the process of formatting the hard disk and installing the operating system.
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-- roger
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#211900 - 08/04/2004 11:06
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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For SCSI drives too? Strange. The one I made tried to star the CDROM but failed. I assumed it was because it was SCSI and the controller drivers weren't there.
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Matt
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#211901 - 08/04/2004 11:21
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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I assumed it was because it was SCSI and the controller drivers weren't there. Is it an unusual SCSI controller? I'm tempted to say "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real CD-ROM drive"...
Peter
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#211902 - 08/04/2004 11:31
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Possibly, it is a Dell, after all
This might be the reason that, when I opened the drive bay cover, there was a spare CDROM simply floating around unmounted and disconnected
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Matt
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#211903 - 08/04/2004 15:58
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Is it an unusual SCSI controller? Now that I'm home, I'm able to look inside the machine. It appears to be an onboard SCSI controller. There are no normal IDE hard drive connectors on the board.
What should I do?
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Matt
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#211904 - 08/04/2004 16:26
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Do you have other options to choose from in the "D:\images\" folder? The problem might be that the cdrom.img you chose just doesn't have support for your scsi controller. I've never installed Mandrake - but on my last install of Slackware, I had to choose a boot image that supported the adaptec scsi controller. Look in that directory and see what the other .img options are. It looks like there might be a "D:\images\alternatives" dir from what I can tell from older Mandrake documentation.
- trs
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- trs
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#211905 - 08/04/2004 22:20
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I ended up back at bootdisk.com after a Google search. They have instructions there on how to boot with SCSI CDROM support. I followed the steps and I can use the CDROM now.
The Mandrake installation ISOs will be downloaded by tomorrow. Now I'm ready to try and start the installation. Wish me luck!
Thanks for everyone's help again.
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Matt
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#211906 - 09/04/2004 02:46
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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They have instructions there on how to boot with SCSI CDROM support. I followed the steps and I can use the CDROM now.
That is all about how to get access to your SCSI CDROM when booting from a DOS boot floppy disk. I don't think that is going to help you much.
You are going to need to boot from a Linux boot floppy disk, which will be provided as part of the Mandrake install. The instructions I posted the other day show how to create the Linux boot floppy disk.
You need to find a Mandrake boot floppy image that supports your SCSI card. I would be amazed if the standard Madrake boot floppy didn't support your SCSI card. What Dell server is it we are talking about?
When I posted the details about creating a Mandrake boot floppy before you said "The one I made tried to star the CDROM but failed." can you give us some details on what you mean by "it tried to start the CDROM but failed" ?
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#211907 - 09/04/2004 06:41
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Sorry about that. I didn't realize what you were instructing in your post. That all makes sense.
I was talking about the first DOS boot disk I made from bootdisk.com that simply said it failed to start the CDROM, but that was for the above stated reasons of not having SCSI capability.
Looking at the URL in your post, I see it was for Mandrake 9.0. I assume it will, but will the same instructions carry over to 10?
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Matt
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#211908 - 09/04/2004 13:08
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I've got another problem. I'm not sure if I got screwed, fooled, or simply should have been more inquisitive, but I received the result of this auction in the mail today, and it didn't come with heatsinks like I expected.
To the seller's credit, neither the picture nor the auction title mention heatsinks.
However, to my credit, the description mentions a slightly bent "heatsink." This leads me to believe that the seller might not have known all that much about these processors, because it is in fact the edge of the metal side of the processor that is slightly bent, which worries much more than a bent heatsink.
*edit*
I decided that regardless of the result of contacting the seller, the likelyhood that he'd have the heatsinks when they weren't included with this auction would be very low. So I went ahead and contacted the Dell spare parts department, and they actually had heatsinks in stock for $9 a piece. What the hell, I just went and ordered them.
Thanks for letting me spout off a little
Edited by DiGNAN17 (09/04/2004 13:38)
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Matt
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#211909 - 09/04/2004 22:50
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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From http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake/9.0/i586/INSTALL.txt
" 3. Make a boot floppy with Windows
If your computer cannot boot from the CDROM and previous methods do
not work, you must make a boot floppy under Windows as follows:
* insert the CDROM, then open the icon "My Computer", right click on
the CDROM drive icon and select "Open"
* go into the "dosutils" directory and double-click on the
"rawwritewin" icon
* insert a blank floppy in the floppy drive
* select "D:\images\cdrom.img" in the "Image File" field (assuming
that your CDROM drive is "D:", otherwise replace "D:" as needed)
* select "A:" in the "Floppy Drive" field then click on "Write".
To begin the installation:
* insert the CDROM in the drive, as well as the boot floppy, then
* restart the computer." This worked perfectly up to where the instructions left off. During the boot I even saw the SCSI adapter recognized, and the CDROM drive listed.
But then I get into the installation and I get "No CDROM device found."
Why? At the very end of the boot (the portion I'm assuming was on the floppy - I hadn't seen the messages before), it definitely said that a boot disk was in the CDROM drive.
I've managed to find someone else's description of what's in this machine, based on a Google search for what I thought the drive number was. Here's the info: Hardware details: Dell PowerEdge 6300/500 , 2G memory, 4 Xeon 500
processors. The SCSI subsystem is as follows (from dmesg):
SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00
Red Hat/Adaptec aacraid driver, Oct 7 2002
aacraid:Warning: FSA time base appears invalid [0x5].
AAC0: kernel 1.1.4 build 1922
AAC0: monitor 1.1.4 build 1922
AAC0: bios 1.1.0 build 1922
AAC0: serial 00
scsi0 : percraid
Vendor: DELL Model: PERCRAID RAID5 Rev: V1.0
Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
scsi1 : Adaptec AIC7XXX EISA/VLB/PCI SCSI HBA DRIVER, Rev 6.2.8
<Adaptec aic7890/91 Ultra2 SCSI adapter>
aic7890/91: Ultra2 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 32/253 SCBs
scsi2 : Adaptec AIC7XXX EISA/VLB/PCI SCSI HBA DRIVER, Rev 6.2.8
<Adaptec aic7890/91 Ultra2 SCSI adapter>
aic7890/91: Ultra2 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 32/253 SCBs
scsi3 : Adaptec AIC7XXX EISA/VLB/PCI SCSI HBA DRIVER, Rev 6.2.8
<Adaptec aic7860 Ultra SCSI adapter>
aic7860: Ultra Single Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 3/253 SCBs
Vendor: NEC Model: CD-ROM DRIVE:465 Rev: 1.25
Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
(scsi3:A:5): 20.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 15) I have the option of using a floppy with the drivers for the CD drive, but considering it says it wasn't even found, and I couldn't find the drivers online anyway, I have no idea what to do.
Thanks for any help.
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Matt
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#211910 - 10/04/2004 01:08
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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If more info is needed, here's the end of the log:
* looking for ide media
* looking for scsi media
* SCSI/2: sr0 is a NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:465
* looking for Compaq Smart Array media
* looking for DAC960
* unsetting automatic
* have to insmod floppy
* needs floppy
* ...succeeded floppy
* /dev/fd0 type: H1440
* ...track: 0
* mounting /dev/fd0 on /tmp/floppy as type ext2
* mount failed: Invalid argument
That last bit is where it's telling me that either my CD drivers or the controller drivers are not found, so I need to insert a floppy that has them. Too bad I can't find a single mention of Linux drivers for that drive.
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Matt
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#211911 - 12/04/2004 12:22
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Very puzzling. It clearly has found the CD drive sucessfully.
mounting /dev/fd0 on /tmp/floppy as type ext2
* mount failed: Invalid argument
These line suggest that what is actually happening is that it is failing to mount the file system on the floppy for some reason.
The way these Linux install boot floppies work is that they boot a Linux kernel from the boot blocks on the floppy, probe for all the hardware they need and then mount a file system from the floppy with the data that they need.
It looks like this mount of the file system from the floppy is failing (unless the log output is misleading and it is a mount that it hasn't mentioned that is failing).
Does the Mandrake install offer any other debug output on the other virtual consoles ? (you can switch virtual consoles by pressing Alt and one of the function keys, with a different virtual console on each function key).
I guess if the floppy mount really is failing you could have one of:
- dodgy floppy disk
- dodgy floppy disk drive
- a combination of floppy disk drives (I have a couple of drives that can't read disks written by each other)
- something else entirely
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#211912 - 12/04/2004 12:40
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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That's strange. So you mean even though the floppy drive is being read at one point (otherwise I'd never have gotten to the CD installation part), it's having problems later? I'll try bringing some floppies home from work (I don't have any at home), and try again.
So it's not that it can't find drivers on the disk I've got in the drive? In the regular screen, during that log point, I think I'm getting something about a Linux type ext2 thing not being found (sorry, working from memory at the moment).
A few minutes ago, I was able to find all sorts of linux drivers and BIOS updates for my server on Dell's site. That will help.
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Matt
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#211913 - 12/04/2004 12:46
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Initially, it uses the BIOS to access the floppy. Later, it tries to access it directly. I'm not quite sure why it's trying to mount the floppy, though. It ought to be mounting the CD. Regardless, it seems to be trying. Try the BIOS updates. That might help. Any drivers on Dell's site are not going to help, as you'll have no way to insert them during install.
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Bitt Faulk
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#211914 - 12/04/2004 13:06
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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So the error message I'm getting on the installation screen is correct (it can't find the drivers), but the reason is because it can't see the floppy to look for them? Well, we'll see how the new floppies work.
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#211915 - 12/04/2004 13:21
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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So the error message I'm getting on the installation screen is correct (it can't find the drivers), but the reason is because it can't see the floppy to look for them?
That can't be the whole story. The drivers for the SCSI card and CDROM are compiled into the Linux kernel that the install floppy is booting from.
It clearly does have the drivers for the SCSI card and CDROM, because it is recognising them correctly.
Try some other floppies and/or try writing them on a different machine. Failing that try the BIOS updates.
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#211916 - 12/04/2004 13:24
Re: Network and server advice?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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That could happen for a number of reasons. The disk could be bad beyond a particular point or the drive could have problems reading it beyond a particular point.
As Bitt pointed out it could also be down to the different way Linux is accessing the disk when it is mounting the floppy.
Do you have another floppy drive you could plug in to try ?
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