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#291049 - 03/12/2006 00:11 VW Double DIN Monsoon replacement
Neurot
journeyman

Registered: 06/01/2002
Posts: 80
Loc: Seattle, WA
I just got a 2004 Golf and am ready to put the empeg in. It has the stock Monsoon system, which means the amp is expecting voltage on the speaker lines to turn itself on. After getting the head unit out, I am faced with the task of getting the rca-output-only empeg to connect to a speaker-level-input-only wiring harness. I stripped off the shroud on a pair of RCA cables and connected it (wouldn't have tried it, but it was recommended somewhere), and it did not work. I bought a "PAC OEM-2" integration module, but it only has speaker level input. It seems anyone who wants to replace the head unit in a system with a factory amp is forced to use the speaker level outputs. Since that won't work for me, I'm looking for another solution.

I've done a LOT of reading on here, TDIclub, VWVortex, etc. and have yet to find a solution. Many people seem to have had the single DIN version or their radio has the speaker level outputs.

It's all taken apart, and I'm fussing with it now, so any help or tips would be most appreciated!

This is vehicle #5 for the empeg - 1995 Supra TT, 1987 Porsche 944T, 2000 Viper GTS, 2001 Audi A6 2.7T, and I've finally grown up and settled down a bit...bought a diesel golf and running biodiesel!

Thanks, guys!

Jason in Austin (met some of you folks at a meet in San Fran a few years ago in the Viper...)

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#291050 - 03/12/2006 13:53 Re: VW Double DIN Monsoon replacement [Re: Neurot]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Jason,

Your install might be similar to my 2002 Benz install, connecting the empeg (and an Alpine, via a source switch) to the stock Bose amp and speakers. I wound up using a Metra harness for a VW, but that's beside the point. Or is your stock amp a Bose, because I've read plenty of good, bad, and ugly information about them.

You may need an OEM Interface adapter to convert line out RCAs to the proper input for your amp. I have a Peripheral Super VEN 4 sitting on my desk but haven't tried it yet.

Honestly, it sounds like you need an amp between the empeg and your stock amp. How else can you give speaker level inputs to your stock amp? Using two amps seems silly. Maybe you've got some uninformed information about your stock amp.

For the Mercedes Bose, which is apparently similar to VW, people claim to hook up speaker level inputs and it works fine. Turn the volume up even slightly and it becomes overdriven since it's double amplified. Other people claim to hook up line level inputs (which I did) and it works fine. But turning the volume to full blast is only kind of loud because the signal isn't strong enough. Apparently the Bose amp expects 4V balanced line input; not speaker level and not 2V RCA line level. The SVEN 4 can apparently convert from speaker or line level to the proper 4V balanced.

I hope this helps.
_________________________
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#291051 - 03/12/2006 15:25 Re: VW Double DIN Monsoon replacement [Re: FireFox31]
Neurot
journeyman

Registered: 06/01/2002
Posts: 80
Loc: Seattle, WA
wow, the Super VEN 4 looks EXACTLY what i need...RCA input and speaker level output!

The stock monsoon amp turns itself on by getting speaker level voltage over the front left speaker line.

i was able to test the system with an aftermarket cd player with speaker level outputs - i just connected it up and it works. So I'll order the super VEN and see if it works.

If i get it going, i'll make a how-to post - there must be others out there with these monsoon systems...

oh, and i did pull out the wiring from 2 test RCA cables and connected all 4 channels from the empeg and it did not work - and also tried this going through the PAC OEM-2.

thanks!

jason

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#291052 - 04/12/2006 02:24 Re: VW Double DIN Monsoon replacement [Re: Neurot]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Makes me wonder if you could bridge the empeg's "remote turn on" line into the front left speaker line. Someone smarter than me could confirm:

Does "remote turn on" send a quick 12V pulse to turn on the amp, or is it a constant 12V signal?

I get the feeling it's a constant 12V signal, which would probably destroy your amp and your speakers. Who knows.
_________________________
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#291053 - 04/12/2006 07:37 Re: VW Double DIN Monsoon replacement [Re: FireFox31]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 889
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Quote:
Does "remote turn on" send a quick 12V pulse to turn on the amp, or is it a constant 12V signal?

It's constant. But when Neurot says it turns on by monitoring the FL speaker line, maybe its just looking for audio there? Sounds kinda strange.
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Hussein

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#291054 - 04/12/2006 13:12 Re: VW Double DIN Monsoon replacement [Re: sein]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3496
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
At mp3car.com, there's a thread on this subject. Probably some good info in there.
_________________________
~ John

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#291055 - 08/12/2006 05:11 From bad to worse [Re: JBjorgen]
Neurot
journeyman

Registered: 06/01/2002
Posts: 80
Loc: Seattle, WA
I received the Super VEN 4 today, but no luck. I'm really really stumped!

Here's some new info:

I hooked up the sven4, but there was still no audio. Having heard that the Monsoon amp is looking for '5-6 volts from the front left speaker', I connected a speaker level line from my cd player (that is also connected to power and will be connected via the rca input on the empeg) - and sound came through it! the interesting thing was, it was sound from the empeg. So i figured i was on the right track. unfortunately, i could not repeat this - every subsequent time i did this, i got sound from the cd player, rather than the empeg. i actually wondered why i didn't hear both, since it was sort of teeing two inputs at the same time.

Anyway, I got a volt meter and read 0.11 or so volts from the rca outputs (both front and rear) on the empeg. earlier, it had been 2.5 volts or so, which is still less than the 4v the sven4 needs (according to the docs). i can't explain why i'm getting different readings from the sled, but i did go back and check the speaker level outputs on the cd player, and it showed a pretty constant 6v or so, and 12v from all the appropriate power connectors.

I further checked the rca output of the cd player, which also showed .1 or so volts - shouldn't rca be at least 1v?

Next, I changed out the sven harness so that it had the speaker level inputs as well as outputs, and the signal does not seem to be passing through. i connected the speaker level outputs of the cd player, verified 6 volts going in, and on the circuit board, but nothing coming out.

So, the point i am at now is, i can get it to work with no special tricks using the speaker level outputs of the cd player. But i had a moment where i had the sven4 hooked up, and sound was coming from the empeg...any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong or tips?

thanks!

Jason

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#291056 - 08/12/2006 10:25 Re: From bad to worse [Re: Neurot]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3496
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Did you read the thread I posted above? Has good info on making a very simple little box that will sit in between your empeg and your amp and make it work.
_________________________
~ John

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#291057 - 08/12/2006 13:57 Re: From bad to worse [Re: JBjorgen]
Neurot
journeyman

Registered: 06/01/2002
Posts: 80
Loc: Seattle, WA
yes i had already found that one...building a box like that i think is outside the scope of my expertise. I'm not very experienced with car stereos, don't know about ground loop isolators or really hacking into the system like he's done. other people in the thread tried it without success, and before i consider something like that, i'd like to be able to use something that seems to have been designed for it. one thing i can't figure out is, where would the sven4 get power to up the voltage from 4v to 6v? or is it possible to do that without any external power?

also, why does the empeg not show 4v coming out of each rca output?

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#291058 - 08/12/2006 17:04 Re: From bad to worse [Re: Neurot]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
where would the sven4 get power to up the voltage from 4v to 6v?

You are as stumped as I will be once I try the thing. Before buying it, I read the docs to find out how it worked. Their phone support, probably intentionally unhelpful because I was not a car audio dealer, was even less helpful.

I saw it wants 4V in. But it's supposed to take in 2V and spit out 4V. Phone support said it did just that, not clarifying why the docs said it wanted 4V.

And when I asked them how it boosts the signal with no power lines, they said "Well, it has potentiometers inside." Um, sure, but they don't CREATE power to boost the signal.

I still haven't tried playing with my SVEN4 yet. All I know it, other people on other forums have said it works to convert 2V to 4V, speaker level to 4V, and somehow something about 2V to speaker level. Sorry if I led you wrong, I am just passing on the good (or not) word.
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#291059 - 08/12/2006 17:08 Re: From bad to worse [Re: Neurot]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
Next, I changed out the sven harness

Did you change the switches on the SVEN4 itself? And adjust those magic potentiometers which create power for free?
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#291060 - 09/12/2006 03:04 Re: From bad to worse [Re: FireFox31]
Neurot
journeyman

Registered: 06/01/2002
Posts: 80
Loc: Seattle, WA
no problem, it was definitely something i would have tried on my own if i had seen it elsewhere.

tonight I went to Fry's and bought a clariion head unit with satellite radio, hd radio support, mp3/cdrw, etc., AND line in. So I'm giving up on all the converters and will try to install a 'normal' radio, using the empeg on the line in. i'll report back as to whether i have to use either the sven4 or the oem-2 to make it work.

jason

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