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#292109 - 09/01/2007 19:06 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: matthew_k]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Quote:
That said, affordable 3G data beats the pants of wifi.

I don't think Cingular can be blamed for the lack of HSDPA support in the iPhone. Also, Cingular's unlimited data plan is $39 per month for PDA devices... not $80. That still a bit high for my tastes, but I have unlimited data from Cingular for $19 because they think I have a non-PDA phone.
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80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#292110 - 09/01/2007 19:10 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
The restrictions I remember with the ROKR was that the iTunes component wouldn't deal with more then 100 songs, to try and prevent the ROKR from eating into the iPod sales. The majority of iPods sold are the lower end flash based ones, so a phone that could be expanded into their range would be a threat.

Now that the phone is 100% apple controlled, they don't have a problem with this. I'm betting the Motorola alliance was one to allow Apple to learn the phone business a bit before jumping in with both feet. Similar to how Microsoft worked with Sega on the Dreamcast before going ahead with the XBox.

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#292111 - 09/01/2007 19:16 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: matthew_k]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Quote:
It looks like a beautiful device, but putting out a smartphone in june with only EDGE data, only on Cingular, is kind of craptastic.


Craptastic only here in the US. I'm sure Apple was looking at the 82% market share GSM phones have worldwide when they made that decision. The US isn't the market phone manufacturers normally target, since people here don't upgrade quite as often, and we have so many different wireless "standards" to deal with.

It really is a shame to think the US market isn't leading in the wireless technology space, but much like our crappy internet service, landmass and political lobbying has allowed other countries to pass us by.

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#292112 - 09/01/2007 19:23 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: robricc]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Also, Cingular's unlimited data plan is $39 per month for PDA devices... not $80.

Right, but you need a $40 data plan. My sprint plan is $30 a month, and has more minutes than I use every month and unlimited handset data. (Tethering is not allowed, technically) Even if you couldn't get on the sero plan, a standard plan is $40 plus $15 for handset data for any phone, not just stupid phones.

Matthew

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#292113 - 09/01/2007 19:29 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: drakino]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Craptastic only here in the US. I'm sure Apple was looking at the 82% market share GSM phones have worldwide when they made that decision.

Right, but cingular is rolling out UMTS. Maybe not as fast as they could be, but it's available in some areas.

Matthew

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#292114 - 09/01/2007 20:23 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: matthew_k]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
There is a load of stuff about the iPhone on Apples website already. Interestingly, it crashes my IE7 so I can't only look at it using Firefox
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#292115 - 09/01/2007 22:18 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: furtive]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Just watching the stream, and at around 24 minutes in Steve actually says that they'll do 3G in the future.

"...plan to make 3g phones and all sorts of amazing things in the future"

I've read a few comments saying part of the reason they didn't go with 3G might be battery life. I'd guess it's partially that, lack of Cingular 3G coverage, and possibly the potential city wide wifi networks. Here in SF soon enough, you won't need the EDGE or 3G... we'll have Google/Earthlink city wide wifi.


Edited by loren (09/01/2007 22:19)
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#292116 - 09/01/2007 23:58 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tonyc]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
he fact is, all of those envelope-pushing aspects need to come together to make a phone that I'll feel comfortable using, and I can't see that happening without a real keyboard.

Am I the only one who just wants a phone that lets me talk to people once in a while -- and nothing more than that?

Probably so. Sigh...

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#292117 - 10/01/2007 00:21 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tanstaafl.]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Am I the only one who just wants a phone that lets me talk to people once in a while -- and nothing more than that?

Probably so. Sigh...

tanstaafl.


No, you're probably not. But then, what's the problem? Just get one. They're out there. When I switched to T-Mobile, I got a phone free that was just that: nothing but a basic phone. It seems like every time a feature-rich, do everything phone comes out, people complain about the fact that it's more than a phone. I really don't understand that. It isn't like there aren't simple options. If you don't like this type of phone, don't buy it. It not like added options on $10 phones keep people from making a simple phone call.

That said, I think the iPhone looks great, but it's not for me. I have a nice Japanese import Toshiba that I'm plenty happy with, and don't need the features that the iPhone offers. Damn fine looking phone, though.
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#292118 - 10/01/2007 00:26 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: webroach]
jbauer
veteran

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
If you guys/gals haven't seen it, here's the keynote: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/j47d52oo/event/

- Jon

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#292119 - 10/01/2007 01:31 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tanstaafl.]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
tanstaafl: Amen. My StarTac never crashed like my Treo 650 does all too often. It was 100% reliable.

loren: Amen, also. iPhone is finally the dream of convergence come true. 21st century has finally arrived.

I'm surprised everyone isn't amazed by the interface. Judging by the vids on Apple's site, there are some nice things there (besides crashing both my browsers constantly). Velocity to "flick" a list upward, the left/right iPod menu structure used in PDA style, etc. And cover art browsing looks brilliant, even coming from me who thinks cover art is a total waste.

Too bad I couldn't load the virtual keyboard video because I agree that using the Treo is much better. But, the world will probably find virtual keyboard to be the winner.

Cingular is clearly the only American carier that matters anymore. Only they have the Treo 680 ("for average people") and Treo 750 (3G internet). Now they have iPhone. Goodbye to all RAZR's and rip off Kytanaa's. Goodbye to Nextel push-to-talk, Verizon's unreliability, Sprint's malicious incompetence, and T-Mobile's downright unimportance. Cingular wins.
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FireFox31
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#292120 - 10/01/2007 08:43 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: rob]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
I expect even Hugo can't spill the beans, but I'd love to know whether this thing's internal codename was "Newton 2"...

And that wasn't meant to be snide -- a Newton made out of C21st technology would be a great product. If that's what Iphone is, I'm all in favour.

Peter

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#292121 - 10/01/2007 12:37 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Yup - I use NoScript in firefox. But to be fair my job means I have become very jaded. I still love cutting edge stuff, but only until it becomes a good target for the black hats, and starting off with MS, html stuff etc means it is already asking for trouble.

And I'm with Tanstaafl - all I want from a phone is good reception and battery life, even though I do use the camera in mine to moblog...cos it's there and I couldn't get this type of phone without a camera.


Edited by frog51 (10/01/2007 12:38)
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MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
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#292122 - 10/01/2007 14:51 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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#292123 - 10/01/2007 15:20 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Yes, I manage the AP hardware team (ie the people who work on the non-RF bits). Great it see it in public finally, I've had units around on my desk for many months now - mostly taken to pieces

Hugo

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#292124 - 10/01/2007 15:23 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: andy]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Real OSX. Same source tree.

Hugo
(who has to keep re-reading his messages to ensure that he stays within the guidelines as to what he's allowed to say!)

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#292125 - 10/01/2007 15:36 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: altman]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Real OSX. Same source tree.


I hate to quibble with the man behind my favorite geeky toy who now works at my favorite geeky company, and I know you probably can't respond with too much detail... Still, I don't think that "Real OSX" and "same source tree" are mutually inclusive (or exclusive for that matter.) Two products that come from the same source tree can be very different, as we saw with the Rio Karma and empegcar v3 builds. "Real OSX" to me means I can copy the Photoshop or iTunes applications from my Mac and load it onto my iPhone. That is of course a ridiculous notion, but it's what I think when I read "real OSX." I would have liked to hear more clarity coming out of MacWorld about what exactly this OSX version is, what it will and won't be able to do, etc., but calling it "real OSX" without qualification seems to be writing a mighty big check.
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#292126 - 10/01/2007 15:52 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: altman]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Congrats!

Now how do I get one as a beta tester before June? :-)

Seriously, I love the UI and it seems like it's fantastic at most things that matter to me. I'm not thrilled with the email support (I'd like to see some kind of tight Gmail integration), and I'm suspicious about the general lack of hard buttons. I'm also curious if you can pull the thing out of your pocket and, by feel, figure out which side goes to your ear.

Another intriguing question is the extent to which the iPhone will support VoIP, whether over EDGE or WiFi. It's got all the hardware. All it needs is the software.

The biggest question, of course, is the extent to which you can develop and install third-party apps. Given that Google already has a J2ME app for Gmail, they'd presumably be willing to do something custom for the iPhone as well. They might even hook it in to Google Talk, including voice, as would Skype and others, if given the chance.

Other random thoughts: the side of the iPhone has what looks to be some kind of MicroSD slot. It might just be a long-skinny button, for all I can tell from the Apple web site. Expandable memory would certainly be a feature. Another interesting question is how much of that 4GB or 8GB is actually available for storage and how much is consumed by the operating system. Also, there's no indication that the battery can be replaced. I tend to burn through a cel-phone battery in 18 months. This phone, with the extra features, might destroy a battery in a year.

EDIT: it's not a MicroSD slot. It's a volume button.

Of course, what I *really* want is something more along the lines of the RAZR, in terms of form factor and all that. I'd give up a lot of the coolness of the iPhone in return for something small and simple.

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#292127 - 10/01/2007 16:37 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: DWallach]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Of course, what I *really* want is something more along the lines of the RAZR, in terms of form factor and all that. I'd give up a lot of the coolness of the iPhone in return for something small and simple.

Without the sucky Motorola software, I assume.
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#292128 - 10/01/2007 16:40 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tonyc]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hopefully "Real OSX" means that you won't run into most of the same problems porting from OSX to the Apple phone than you would porting from Windows to the versions of Windows for smart phones. Example: I just talked to a guy (someone not within Microsoft, this was outside of MS) who said that the compact Windows versions they use for smart phones don't support any right-to-left languages at all. They had to use a third party tool to to get Arabic to work.
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#292129 - 10/01/2007 16:48 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
WORST ... FIRMWARE ... EVER.

I shouldn't say that, since I work at a close partner of Mot's, but come on people.
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#292130 - 10/01/2007 16:49 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: furtive]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
Quote:
There is a load of stuff about the iPhone on Apples website already. Interestingly, it crashes my IE7 so I can't only look at it using Firefox


That's funny; crashed my Firefox 2, but did fine in IE7. Hmm.
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#292131 - 10/01/2007 17:22 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: DLF]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Motorola hasn't written decent phone firmware since the StarTac. My biggest problem is the lousy contact book design.
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#292132 - 10/01/2007 17:29 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
Folsom
member

Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
Quote:
Motorola hasn't written decent phone firmware since the StarTac. My biggest problem is the lousy contact book design.


I have one of their new 3G razrs, and the phonebook is much improved over their old ones.

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#292133 - 10/01/2007 17:40 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Folsom]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yeah? Can you have a contact with multiple numbers now? (As opposed to multiple contacts with the same name.)
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Bitt Faulk

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#292134 - 10/01/2007 17:45 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
cushman
veteran

Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
Quote:
Yeah? Can you have a contact with multiple numbers now? (As opposed to multiple contacts with the same name.)

Yes, right direction pad when on a contact will cycle between the multiple numbers (displaying icon for work/home/mobile).
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Mark Cushman

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#292135 - 10/01/2007 17:49 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
Folsom
member

Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
On my phone pressing the center of the dpad while on a contact brings up all the numbers. At least four numbers can be entered. Also, email addresses are in the list if you want to send a message.

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#292136 - 10/01/2007 17:51 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
The standard RAZR has what you want. You can change the mode where multiple contacts, with the same name, are rendered on one line of the contact list. Left/right arrows let you select the different dialing icon. Kludgy, but it works.

The new Moto KRZR is exactly what I want, from a hardware perspective, but the software is clearly just a derivative of the existing RAZR software, which pretty much sucks. As such, I'm going to stick it out for six months to try holding an iPhone in my hand and see how it feels.

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#292137 - 10/01/2007 17:51 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Folsom]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Nice. Only took them five years to get basic year 2001 functions.
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#292138 - 10/01/2007 18:43 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: wfaulk]
jbauer
veteran

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA

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