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#292139 - 10/01/2007 19:18 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3716

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#292140 - 10/01/2007 19:51 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: DWallach]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3978
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
Heh...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjmartin/352863305/


To be expected I suppose, although it could all go in reverse if the first user reviews are less than complimentary. Glad to see RIM are the worst off.... why their POS plastic monstrosities are so popular I'll never know... and from listening to sysadmin guys at work, the server side of it isn't too good either.
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Cheers,

Andy M

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#292141 - 10/01/2007 20:11 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: andym]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1896
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:
...why their POS plastic monstrosities are so popular I'll never know...


THANKS! Now I have lemsip all over my previously pristine apple bluetooth keyboard

Cheers

Cris.

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#292142 - 10/01/2007 20:18 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tonyc]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3452
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Sorry, I should have added the word "kernel".

I've read some people getting a warped idea that it's related to OSX on a mac in the same way that windows mobile is related to windows XP (ie - not at all). As Mr Jobs noted in the keynote, it's OSX on a phone including nice things like core animation and proper network stacks.

Hugo

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#292143 - 10/01/2007 20:26 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: altman]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Sorry, I should have added the word "kernel".

I've read some people getting a warped idea that it's related to OSX on a mac in the same way that windows mobile is related to windows XP (ie - not at all). As Mr Jobs noted in the keynote, it's OSX on a phone including nice things like core animation and proper network stacks.


Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Looking forward to more details as they emerge, especially about the prospect of 3rd party apps and so forth. I just really, really wish there were a real keyboard, or that "TenGo" input. Touchscreen keyboard on a phone makes about as much sense as touchscreen controls on an in-car music player (yet everyone does that, too.)
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- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#292144 - 10/01/2007 21:11 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tonyc]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3716
If nothing else, there's always Bluetooth. Maybe the iPhone will work with something like the Bluetooth iFrog one-handed keyboard.

And, is it just me, or does it seem like the "automatic" pairing for Bluetooth headsets sounds like a security vulnerability?

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#292145 - 10/01/2007 21:24 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: DWallach]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah, but built-in keyboards make more sense for a lot of smartphone-like applications. Who wants to deal with an add-on keyboard when you want to type in a new calendar entry, contact, or respond to an email?

I know you prefaced with "if nothing else" but it's really not much of a consolation. People like buttons and keys. They work.
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my empeg stuff

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#292146 - 10/01/2007 22:05 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tonyc]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2296
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Speculative, but...


Looks to be true. From Eddie Cue and Phil Schiller by way of Gizmodo:
Quote:
And like an iPod, it won't be an open system that people can develop for. Remember, this is both an iPod and a Phone.


Really unfortunate.

Matthew

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#292147 - 10/01/2007 22:21 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: matthew_k]
jbauer
veteran

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Cisco Sues Apple for Trademark Infringement

http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2007/corp_011007.html?CMP=ILC-001

- Jon

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#292148 - 10/01/2007 22:36 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: DWallach]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I wouldn't use a Razr or any other Moto phone if it were given to me for free. Not even if a $100 bill was slipped in with it. Along with Samsung they're below the bottom of the barrel when it comes to UI.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#292149 - 10/01/2007 22:37 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: matthew_k]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
That doesn't mean 3rd party licensees won't be able to develop for it. And it doesn't mean users will not be able to download 3rd party content to install.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#292150 - 10/01/2007 22:44 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: hybrid8]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2296
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
That doesn't mean 3rd party licensees won't be able to develop for it. And it doesn't mean users will not be able to download 3rd party content to install.

I'm sure they will, for a fee. I for one am tired of every last company viewing my mobile phone as their cash cow. I'd be happy to pay apple for a cell phone, but I don't really think they need to make a cut of every application that gets sold for one.

Matthew

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#292151 - 11/01/2007 00:59 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tonyc]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
tonyc: I get the feeling that, somehow, virtual keyboard will supplant Treo and Blackberry (and all the imposters) physical keyboards. Probably just because Apple's behind it. Maybe in the same way that people liked knobs and buttons before iPod; now they are comfortable with the touch wheel (even through a skin, ugh).

jbauer: re: the copyright infringement. I always thought the old iPhone rumors could never come true for this very reason. I remember iPhone from way back. It was the first "internet phone" app I tried (if I remember back correctly).
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#292152 - 11/01/2007 01:05 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: FireFox31]
jbauer
veteran

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Quote:
(snip) jbauer: re: the copyright infringement. I always thought the old iPhone rumors could never come true for this very reason. I remember iPhone from way back. It was the first "internet phone" app I tried (if I remember back correctly).


I'm sure that Apple and Cisco will come to an agreement (maybe one in which Apple pays Cisco royalties, maybe not). It's kinda funny because Apple has been notorious for their copyright lawsuits (ie: usage of "pod") and this really is karma biting them in their arses...

- Jon

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#292153 - 11/01/2007 01:17 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: FireFox31]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3494
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Is it just me, or is anyone else disappointed that they didn't put a GPS in this thing? I suppose they could add bluetooth support for one later. It just seems like it'd be awfully useful for it to automatically know your location when browsing for movies, weather, traffic, gas prices, and other points of interest.

Not to mention that it'd be a nice handheld gps. I can imagine going to geocaching.com, selecting a cache and having the coordinates automatically load as a waypoint. That'd be sweet.

Hugo, O though great iphone hardware guy, art thou open to suggestions?

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#292154 - 11/01/2007 01:19 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: JBjorgen]
jbauer
veteran

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Quote:
Is it just me, or is anyone else disappointed that they didn't put a GPS in this thing? I suppose they could add bluetooth support for one later. It just seems like it'd be awfully useful for it to automatically know your location when browsing for movies, weather, traffic, gas prices, and other points of interest.

Not to mention that it'd be a nice handheld gps. I can imagine going to geocaching.com, selecting a cache and having the coordinates autmatically load as a waypoint. That'd be sweet.


I can't find anything on the Apple website about it, but this article http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/01/09/ap3314961.html says it has it...

"The phone supports Wi-Fi and Bluetooth wireless technology and can detect location from Global Positioning System satellites."

- Jon

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#292155 - 11/01/2007 01:28 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3494
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Ah. Thanks. I suppose I just assumed that it approximated a location from the tower you were connected to. Hopefully we'll see a geocaching widget then.
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#292156 - 11/01/2007 03:30 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: tanstaafl.]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2659
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
he fact is, all of those envelope-pushing aspects need to come together to make a phone that I'll feel comfortable using, and I can't see that happening without a real keyboard.

Am I the only one who just wants a phone that lets me talk to people once in a while -- and nothing more than that?

Probably so. Sigh...

tanstaafl.


No you arn't.
I do find Apple's item interesting, as a pocket trophy kind of thing.
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Glenn

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#292157 - 11/01/2007 05:31 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 889
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
The new iPhone looks amazing. After 4 years of thinking nothing could beat a Treo, this may be what I will get next (depending on UK price). I was initially skeptical about the virtual keyboard. But after watching a clip of the keynote where Steve taps a message swiftly with just his index finger makes me think with two thumbs it may be just as fast (or close enough) as my Palm favourite.

Hugo, is there an official word on whether anyone can write an app and run it on their iPhone? I have lots of great useful tools on my PalmOS phone and it really is a deal maker or breaker for me. I have to have my SSH, IRC, Navigation, VoIP, C64 Emulator etc in my pocket. Engadget says no, but I don't believe them.

I'm also looking forward to the future iPhone mini or iPhone nano. Something smaller and a little more budget friendly would be very popular I'm sure. iPhone shuffle would be interesting. When you press dial it can call one of your contacts at random!
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Hussein

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#292158 - 11/01/2007 10:54 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: gbeer]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 994
Quote:
Quote:
he fact is, all of those envelope-pushing aspects need to come together to make a phone that I'll feel comfortable using, and I can't see that happening without a real keyboard.

Am I the only one who just wants a phone that lets me talk to people once in a while -- and nothing more than that?

Probably so. Sigh...

tanstaafl.


No you arn't.
I do find Apple's item interesting, as a pocket trophy kind of thing.


I'm another. While I'm sure itís a great device most ďdo everything" things, are usually a mass of compromises. Generally single function devices can concentrate on doing one thing well.

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#292159 - 11/01/2007 11:16 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Redrum]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3494
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Am I the only one who wants his PC to just be a word processor? I mean...what's with the internet and all this game crap. I just want to type stuff. It does so many things it's confusing. Maybe I'll just go back to the typewriter...they got it right back then. Does one thing and does it well. And nice clanky keys....not all these dumb buttons to click on.

Oh well. At least it's a nice desktop trophy...
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~ John

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#292160 - 11/01/2007 12:09 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: JBjorgen]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 994
Quote:
Am I the only one who wants his PC to just be a word processor? I mean...what's with the internet and all this game crap. I just want to type stuff. It does so many things it's confusing. Maybe I'll just go back to the typewriter...they got it right back then. Does one thing and does it well. And nice clanky keys....not all these dumb buttons to click on.

Oh well. At least it's a nice desktop trophy...


OK, smart guy, why don't you invent a flying /boat/submarine/car that will win at drag racing, monster truck competitions, NASCAR and air races. Hey while youíre at it take on the space race and send it in orbit. It better make a damn good cup good cup of coffee too.

Oh and it better run on recycled farts or get 100 miles to gallon on French fry oil.

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#292161 - 11/01/2007 13:11 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Redrum]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Quote:
Am I the only one who wants his PC to just be a word processor? I mean...what's with the internet and all this game crap. I just want to type stuff. It does so many things it's confusing. Maybe I'll just go back to the typewriter...they got it right back then. Does one thing and does it well. And nice clanky keys....not all these dumb buttons to click on.

Oh well. At least it's a nice desktop trophy...


OK, smart guy, why don't you invent a flying /boat/submarine/car that will win at drag racing, monster truck competitions, NASCAR and air races. Hey while youíre at it take on the space race and send it in orbit. It better make a damn good cup good cup of coffee too.

Oh and it better run on recycled farts or get 100 miles to gallon on French fry oil.


Not at all the same argument. I think he was dead on re: the complaints people make about devices like this. Asking for separate devices to do these things is like having one computer for email, one for the internet, one for viewing documents, one for... and so on.
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Dave

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#292162 - 11/01/2007 13:24 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Redrum]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3494
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Yeah...definitely no offense meant. Just trying to make a point with parody.

The funny thing is, I remember people saying things just like that in the early days of the PC. Why? Because it wasn't easy and intuitive enough to use and it didn't do enough extra to make a difference. Did that make the PC a bad idea? No, it just made it immature. Methinks many of the phone-only crowd will have second thoughts as the technology matures.

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#292163 - 11/01/2007 13:32 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: webroach]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12037
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
Asking for separate devices to do these things...

But that's where I think you're missing what these people are saying. They don't want the seperate devices or the combined device. They just want a phone. That's the reason that the satirical response doesn't apply to this situation.
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Matt

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#292164 - 11/01/2007 13:43 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: webroach]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 994
Quote:


Not at all the same argument. I think he was dead on re: the complaints people make about devices like this. Asking for separate devices to do these things is like having one computer for email, one for the internet, one for viewing documents, one for... and so on.


Your argument is valid that these tasks are suitable for one device. However when you really want to have quality on any task you need a device designed to do that task best. Phone, GPS and music replay are fairly diverse functions. I donít think there will ever be a product that does all these things better than the top of the line device designed specifically for just one of these functions. For example: the iPhone does not have the storage, eases of use or probably audio quality of the top of the line iPod.

For the average person this may be OK. Just as the average PC suites most people for gaming, graphics or word processing. However I like quality (when I can afford it). Thatís why I have an Empeg .

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#292165 - 11/01/2007 13:53 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Redrum]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
But it looks like the iPhone is a much better MP3 player than all other flash based players, including Apple's own Nano. It's just not as small.

It looks to be a far better phone than most other phones out there, including what anyone might think of as top of the line. People thought the RAZR was top of the line - every version of it sucks. Keys so flat they might as well be an LCD (no tactile feedback), typical poor Motorola interface... What current model phone do people consider tops?

I don't know of any mobile at this time that is not a combination of functions. And the iPhone, unlike most of these other products, actually seems to do each function very well. Certainly this is shown in the demonstrations. This analysis may fall flat on its face once units are used day to day and receive in depth reviews. But going by the demos and product info, it looks to be practically "the best" in each task. Counter to the argument being made here.

So you've got your Space Shuttle Nascar coffee maker.

EDIT: The iPhone isn't a handheld GPS unit. The Google Maps feature is an internet feature and doesn't track your location. You just search for places like on the standard Google Maps web site.


Edited by hybrid8 (11/01/2007 13:58)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#292166 - 11/01/2007 13:54 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: Dignan]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 994
Quote:
Quote:
Asking for separate devices to do these things...

But that's where I think you're missing what these people are saying. They don't want the seperate devices or the combined device. They just want a phone. That's the reason that the satirical response doesn't apply to this situation.


For me, I have varying standards for each. Any OíL phone will do however I like a quality music replay. In a GPS I want it designed for car navigation and voice guidance. I donít need an outdoor type GPS but others may like that better than car navigation. When you get a combined device you have to tune the device functions to the middle of the road so it can meet most peopleís needs. For people that need more in one area they will probably opt out of a combination device.

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#292167 - 11/01/2007 14:03 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: hybrid8]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 994
Quote:
But it looks like the iPhone is a much better MP3 player than all other flash based players, including Apple's own Nano. It's just not as small.

It looks to be a far better phone than most other phones out there, including what anyone might think of as top of the line. People thought the RAZR was top of the line - every version of it sucks. Keys so flat they might as well be an LCD (no tactile feedback), typical poor Motorola interface... What current model phone do people consider tops?

I don't know of any mobile at this time that is not a combination of functions. And the iPhone, unlike most of these other products, actually seems to do each function very well. Certainly this is shown in the demonstrations. This analysis may fall flat on its face once units are used day to day and receive in depth reviews. But going by the demos and product info, it looks to be practically "the best" in each task. Counter to the argument being made here.

So you've got your Space Shuttle Nascar coffee maker.



I don't think my 40 Gig of music will load on to the phone like it will on an iPod. So IMO itís not the best. "The Best" is subjective and needs/mileage will vary from person to person. If everyone agreed on what is best then weíd all drive the same car.

It does sound like a great product. I just donít want one, sorry.

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#292168 - 11/01/2007 14:12 Re: Apple iPhone announced. [Re: jbauer]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12037
Loc: Sterling, VA
Am I the only one that thinks the iPhone isn't really a competitor for the Treo and the Blackberry? I'd be very interested to hear how it's supposed to work in a business environment, which is where I imagine most of those devices live.

People here are going to call me crazy and an Apple hater, but am I the only one that thinks, based on the market segment Apple will likely try to appeal to, that the primary competitor for the iPhone is....the Sidekick?

*ducks*
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Matt

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