Most likely the GOBs* will do whatever (legal or not) has to be done to make this go away, but it is an interesting thought.

tanstaafl.

*GOBs = Good Old Boys

I don't think anyone is really going to argue that he's not a "natural-born" citizen. Yeah, it would be nice if that had been specified in law, and I imagine that this situation might instigate legislation to that effect, but I don't think anyone's really going to argue that a man born on a US military base to two US citizens isn't qualified as a "natural-born" citizen.

Not that I wouldn't like to see McCain ousted from the election.

Wikipedia wasn't very forthcoming on what happens to children born overseas to US-citizen parents (such a child born in the UK would not get UK citizenship), but they did at least link to the actual law, which says that a child both of whose parents are US citizens is a "national and citizen at birth" whether born in the US, in an "outlying possession", or anywhere else. This surely includes McCain.

(I initially read "McCain's Canal Zone Birthplace Raises Eligibility Questions" as "McCain's Birth Canal Zone Raises Eligibility Questions", which would certainly have raised questions although perhaps not about eligibility.)

Peter

Totally offtopic, sorry - it all just reminded me of Bruce Sterling's book 'Distraction ' where the main protagonist has an 'interesting' background in terms of citizenship (or even race)

Maybe I just read too much cyberpunk...

When did this change? I was born to 2 US American parents in London (1975) and I was eligible for citizenship at one point.

Mostly in 1983 - very large changes were made to UK citizenship law then. Your circumstances wouldn't have been eligible after those changes came in to effect.

Regards

Mark

That raises a possibility that would suck. If the US (hypothetically) didn't accept that child as a US citizen and the UK didn't accept him as a UK citizen either, he would have no country.

But, really, the question is whether or not he's a "natural-born" citizen, and, despite the fact that that is the exact terminology used in the Constitution, that term is not (yet) defined anywhere.

Well, if we're talking "natural-born", surely we can disqualify anyone who used assisted birth techniques. Say, anything from an epidural to a full-on C-section.

Who's with me?

In which case, it's a shame he's called McCain and not Macduff.

Peter

This is quite a good summary of the UK law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_citizenship#British_citizenship_by_birth_in_the_United_Kingdom
(from there down)

edit: As far as I can tell, Heather is still able to register for British citizenship, it might be a good idea to do it anyway just in case they decide to change the rules at some point, free access to the EU will always be handy.

If that Wikipedia article is correct, which of course they sometimes aren't, Heather doesn't have to register anything: she is considered a citizen by Britain, unless she's specifically written to the British Home Secretary asking not to be.

Congratulations, Heather, you're a Brit. Have a cup of tea!

Peter

My nephew was born under those same circumstances and I was told he has dual citizenship. Of course his mom is a bit looney so I never took anything she had to say seriously.

There are several reasons why absolutely nothing will come of this, (nor should it):

1. He had to deal with these questions back in 2000 when he ran against GWB in the GOP primary. Were this a legitimate vulnerability, it seems to me Rove and Company would have used it against McCain to undermine his viability (maybe even before they accused him of fathering an illegitimate child.)

2. Obama has come out in favor of a law (put forth by another Democratic senator) that would close any legal loophole that would undermine McCain's eligibility.

3. Just imagine how it would look if any Democrat came out and suggested that McCain should be disqualified because his father was serving in the military at the time of his birth. Democrats already have been branded by the GOP and the obsequious media as being anti-military. I don't think this is the direction they want to go.

This Pastor John Hagee story, however, is not getting nearly the attention it deserves. You have a GOP Presidential nominee actively seeking the support of a pastor who's launched vicious verbal attacks towards Catholics, Jews, and nearly every other non-WASP group in existence. THAT is a much more legitimate concern for voters than the fact that McCain wasn't born on US soil.

How far outside the mainstream is John Hagee, though? I can never quite tell to what extent UK coverage of US fundamentalism is proportionate, and to what extent it's just chortling at Johnny Foreigner, but I thought that a reasonable minority in some parts of the US (such as Hagee's native Texas, where gay sex was legalised less than five years ago), and quite possibly an un-ignoreable fraction of Republican voters, were right behind ideas such as Catholics not being proper Christians, imminent apocalyptic end-times featuring Israel, Hurricane Katrina as a justifiable punishment for laissant les bons temps rouler, the UN as the Antichrist, that sort of thing. Is Hagee much worse than, say, Pat Robinson? Is it not taken as read that such people support Republicans, and Republicans at the right of the party at that? (And after all, this is about Hagee saying McCain would make a good president, not McCain saying Hagee would make a good president.)

Peter

There might be some common generalized distrust of Catholics in areas where they are uncommon (basically the South), but going out on a limb to call the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon and having a whole eschatological premise for it is more-or-less beyond the pale.

The point is, though, that a significant portion of the Catholic community votes quite socially conservatively, which tends to mean Republican. If the Republican candidate then starts promoting his connection to a person with a rabid hatred of the Catholic Church (which he has done -- it's not just an unrequested endorsement; McCain allegedly sought the endorsement and has emphasized it in speeches) shouldn't the Catholic community be made aware of that? Especially when Obama was publicly pressed into disavowing the unrequested endorsement of him by Louis Farrakhan?

And again, if that is correct, she should get herself the UK passport so that she can go places that US citizens can't go and get/import some things that US citizens can't. IMHO, EU citizenship will become more and more valuable as the "loose federation of independent states" becomes the United States of Europe over the next couple of decades -- and by doing so become the largest economic power in the world.

Bear in mind though, many catholics are very pro-life. This reason alone will prevent many of them from voting democrat, given the democratic record on the issue.

As a southern baptist who has never heard of this Hagee, the guy seems to be a nutter, and it's political folly to align yourself with such, but I'd sooner abstain from voting than vote for Obama or Clinton.

One thing that amuses me on many levels is the Katrina being the wrath of God comment. IF it were punishment for a gay lifestyle, why was the french quarter spared, as that's where the vast majority of the gay community resides?

New Orleans hosts many gay events year round. Simply because the storm hit the same week as one of them is hardly a coincidence, there are gay functions nearly EVERY week. In fact, I think it'd be more of a coincidence if it DIDN'T hit a week there was a gay pride parade.

San Fransisco has a much larger gay community, you'd think they'd have slid into he ocean years ago if God were punishing the gays.

Lastly, it wasn't an act of nature that nearly destroyed N.O., it was a failure on the part of the federal government to allocate sufficient funding to protect an area that was (and is) known as high risk with regard to flooding. We survived the hurricane just fine, it was the massive flooding that occurred several hours later due to the failure of the man-made levee system.


On a side note, southern baptists, even in the deep south, are not mistrustful of catholics at all. Let's please try and refrain from the assumption that all southerners are pig-ignorant twits that hate everyone not exactly like them. This is simply not the case. There are nut-jobs in every group, but the vast majority of us are quite normal.

... and no one says Florida's hurricanes are punishment for old people who drive forty in the fast lane...

Hehe, exactly. It IS, however, punishment for choosing to live in an area that is frequently threatened by hurricanes. Give it enough time, you're GONNA get hit.

Then again, I have yet to find an area in the US that is free from all types of hazards. We get hurricanes, the west coast gets earthquakes and mudslides, the middle gets tornadoes, the north gets blizzards and ice storms. Hawaii gets volcanoes and tsunamis, and Alaska is too freaking cold to even think about. At least with a hurricane there is plenty of warning to get the hell outta the way before it's upon you. Earthquake and tornado victims get no such luxury.

I don't know that it would really make a difference but it could complicate getting a security clearance.

Like the rest of North America, it's hard to find anyone who can make a cup of tea worth a shit in New York, and I'm too lazy to do it myself. I'll pass.



At one point, I did have both passports. At the moment, they're both expired. I wonder how much of a PITA renewing the UK one will be.



Oh, they'd hit the arrest record before they even got there. The type of people I imagine I'd come across dealing with things needing a security clearance won't find those stories nearly as funny as I do.

Arizona is free from all that! The only thing we deal with in the valley is the occasional dust storm and monsoon season. It is perfect if you don't mind 115F temperatures

Talk to us in a few years when the Colorado starts to run dry and Nevada isn't sharing.

[tongue-in-cheek]
Oh, good. Dust storms, Flash floods. Rattlesnakes. Death-dealing heat waves. Oh, and let's not forget what is probably the most corrupt state legislature in the nation!
[/tongue-in-cheek]

Y'know, upon reflection, 40 below zero doesn't seem all that bad after all...

tanstaafl.

Oof, 115 is pretty up there, but at least you have no humidity. In other words, you still have the ability to sweat and have it afect your body temperature. Here, where the humidity is ~95% constantly, your sweat just beads up on your skin. You get no cooler from it.

Last time I was in Vegas It was ~110 during the day, and it really didn't feel that bad. I DID suffer from 3-4 nosebleeds that week though, from the lack of moisture in the air.

The most important thing to me is that the food everywhere else is just... so... bland. There are too many restaurants I just simply could not live without that are New Orleans only.

It kind of depends on what the arrest was for.

One chap I met admitted to me he had in his past dealt dope, yet hadn't been afoul of the law. Though this was known, it didn't seem to preclude his getting a clearance.

MICE is the acronym the folks who do background checks worry about.
Money - Are you in financial trouble.
Ideology - Are you a communist or sum such?
Compromise - Can you be blackmailed
Ego - One so superior that the rules don't apply to them.

My parents retired while we were stationed in Omaha, NE and they never left. I don't know why, either I have a tough time going back to visit them outside of the spring or fall because the weather there is just miserable. During the summer, it is just sweltering hot and oppresive - even the shade doesn't help. Here, everybody stays in the shade, in the AC, or in the pool and it is fine The only time you really notice it is on campus walking between the buildings or to the parking lot when the asphalt is kind of gooey. I could write an essay on the weather and how easy it was to be acclimated here (after growing up in places such as Anchorage, AK and Minot, ND).

I just moved to the Phoenix area last week, and I gotta say, in the "winter" time, the weather here is fantastic.

Everyone keeps telling me that I need to get some A/C in my Jeep before the summer hits though.

What happened to Belize?

Hey, come to North Carolina where you can experience a multitude of disasters! Hurricanes, tornadoes, ice storms, heat waves with high humidity, and, lately, droughts.