#331403 - 24/03/2010 19:54
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Robotic]
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old hand
Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
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It's also pretty common to say "I took my car" somewhere. No ride/rode at all and kind of similar to "I took the bus". Hmm.
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#331404 - 24/03/2010 20:26
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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"I rode here in Bob's car" "Bob drove me here" +"I rode with Bob" That sentence works, but it doesn't tell you anything about the car.
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Matt
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#331409 - 24/03/2010 21:56
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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"I rode here in Bob's car" "Bob drove me here" +"I rode with Bob" That sentence works, but it doesn't tell you anything about the car. Oh- sorry. My mind wandered and I lost track of the original threadjack. heh
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#331411 - 24/03/2010 23:46
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Car is a shorthand for Carriage.
Were not carriages primarily enclosed vehicles? Hence getting into a car is correct.
Airplanes on the other hand, think Wilbur and Orville, were not something one got into.
Once established...
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Glenn
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#331415 - 25/03/2010 08:44
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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"On" or "In" an elevator? Ooo! Good one. Personally, I'd say "I'm getting on an elevator" and "I'm currently in an elevator." Obviously it's "In a lift" <ahem>
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Rory MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#331416 - 25/03/2010 10:40
Re: Random English question...
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Do American trucks (lorries here) still have those stickers saying "No Riders"? Clearly this refers to passengers: I take it that no trucker expected someone sticking up a thumb to take charge of their eighteen wheeler.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#331419 - 25/03/2010 13:34
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Robotic]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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it's interesting to note that while automobile, vehicle, and car each are used in the US to designate (for most intents and purposes) the same means of conveyance, their use is not exactly interchangeable.
Car is very much the casual, standard term ("I bought a car"). Automobile is a more esoteric descriptor hearkening back to the roots of the era (The Automobile Industry, Automobile Insurance company). Vehicle is used often in 'precision language' (official descriptions of incidents, or directions given by authority figures).
Auto is also used regularly, but typically as an adjective- a shortening of Automobile (Auto Parts, Auto Service)
/observations of a layman Vehicles mean more than just 'cars' though. The official name of the platform I work on is an 'air vehicle'. Most of the unmanned systems being introduced are referred to as vehicles (except unmanned air vehicles (UAV) is now unmanned aerial system (UAS)), no matter what they travel in, on or under (land or sea I mean).
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#331423 - 25/03/2010 15:36
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Tim]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Vehicles mean more than just 'cars' though. Certainly! I only mention it wrt the automobile discussion.
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#331424 - 25/03/2010 16:24
Re: Random English question...
[Re: hybrid8]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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A typical unmanned drone shouldn't be referred to as vehicle since it's not transporting a payload. Depends on your definition of payload. All military unmanned vehicles carry payloads in terms of sensors, communication relays, and weapons. Not all of the vehicles carry all of them, but they always have one of the three at a minimum.
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#331425 - 25/03/2010 16:50
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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My definition of payload is something that the vehicle is a carrying, that is not part of the vehicle itself. In other words, something being transported which is placed onto/into and then offloaded at some point. A navigational component is an inherent part of the vehicle itself. But a person, missile or bomb are not, so a drone so-equipped with releasable weapons could be called a vehicle by definition. Personally, I avoid calling anything a vehicle that cannot carry one or more persons. It makes it simpler. Anyway, time to hop on my car to go make a hook up in the airport at the plane.
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#331426 - 25/03/2010 16:52
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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You guys are getting way too specific and complicated. I'm sure the answer is much simpler:
We say "get on the plane" because passenger aircraft fill the same role, historically, as passenger ships, and we always said "get on the boat" in the past.
Why we used "on" instead of "in" for ships in the past is an entirely different question, but when you're talking about today's usage, it's because of that very historical precedent.
The car->carriage thing was already pointed out. "In" is used in that case for the same reason: Historical precedent.
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#331429 - 25/03/2010 17:22
Re: Random English question...
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, I've sent this one off to Cecil because I can't find it in his archives, and this is exactly right up his alley. I'm also asking him what they said for dirigibles. Just for completeness.
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#331432 - 25/03/2010 17:53
Re: Random English question...
[Re: hybrid8]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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My definition of payload is something that the vehicle is a carrying, that is not part of the vehicle itself. In other words, something being transported which is placed onto/into and then offloaded at some point. A navigational component is an inherent part of the vehicle itself. But a person, missile or bomb are not, so a drone so-equipped with releasable weapons could be called a vehicle by definition. Sensor packages, communication relays and weapon loadouts are all examples of things that are configured (removable/replacable) based on mission.
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#331434 - 25/03/2010 18:09
Re: Random English question...
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Replaceable doesn't mean cargo though. You don't consider the wheels on a car part of its cargo.
I don't consider a remote control toy a vehicle for the same reasons stated in my previous post.
Anyway, the term is most definitely not an exclusively American one, even though it may find more use in the Americas than in other English speaking countries. Though a few random google searches seems to indicate that the word "vehicle" is used similarly in the UK and Australia as it is in the US and Canada.
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